Kavik

I would think that mouthing would be frustration and/or redirection. Not sure how smashing the dog is going to help Certainly not going to help their relationship.

Simple answer - no. Most club training is structured with heeling blocks etc and this quickly gets boring. Also it is not that compatible for competition work and training in drive. My main interest is agility, and you don't have to do formal obedience classes to do agility, you just need control over the dog off lead. Some class obedience work conflicts with what I want to teach for agility (heeling and focus on me etc). There is a lot of foundation work you can do for agility when the dog is a pup, but this does not require formal type obedience work. I don't plan on going to obedience classes for my next dog, but plan to take him/her to agility training with Kaos and to trials and work on foundation behaviours in a busy environment to get him/her used to working around other dogs

I couldn't watch much of that - too sad

60km/day I don't think so . . . sandgrubber - from my experience in kennels, vets and dog daycare I think Labs are at least as much work as Kelpies. In a kennel type environment Labs are THE most difficult dogs I have had to deal with. More pushy, more bossy with other dogs and more loud. Most Kelpies I have met are more interested in their ball and playing with a person than in other dogs - the problem seems to be when other dogs get in their face. Different definitely (canine bowling ball comes to mind with Labs ) but I think exercise requirements are pretty similar. Mental stimulation is the most important - Kelpies adore training and a good training session will wear them out more than just a run.

I'm with Stormie - I have worked with dogs for 12 hr days, and there are some dogs whose bark is at the pitch where it goes straight through you and you want to strangle it (especially after 12 hrs straight of it barking) and other dogs who can bark for a while and you don't even notice it.

I'm not sure what breed they are. Lovely looking though. One thing though - I would not recommend letting a child go and pat an unknown dog that is tied to a Ute no matter how friendly it seems without the owner's permission! Many dogs are protective of their cars and when tied up.

I wish more people would do things like that ! Hard when you live in a backward agility state with no Not For Competition class - my other pet peeve, LOL. (My state anyway, not sure about NSW?) Luke, you were well and truly ready before you first entered and it showed. I'm also guessing you have had a lot more of a positive trialling experience so far because you waited until you were ready. (and I know how hard it is to do that with your first dog, believe me..... it becomes much easier to be 'patient' as you go along with multiple dogs. Thanks I got a lot of advice and help to fix the problem, I think part of it was stress related. We are now in ADX and JDX so things are coming together! ANKC doesn't have a NFC class but ADAA does. Unfortunately not very helpful for me as my dog won't tug at a trial and you aren't allowed to throw toys in NFC. I just told them that was what I was going to do and the judges were all fine with it

One thing I did to fix our running off problem was to make up a shorter course and end BEFORE he got it into his head to run off. Of course I told the judge this before I started so they knew I was disqualifying myself. He never ran off to see other dogs (he is not interested in other dogs).

One thing that is handy is to take your dog to some trials to get them (and you!) used to the environment as it can be quite busy and distracting. You can get your dog to do some focus exercises and some flatwork - circle work, hand touches etc. Ideally you want your dog to be able to negotiate a Novice type course and be confident in all the obstacles they will see in Novice before you compete. Have some sort of start line stay (if you intend to use one), able to do front crosses. One thing I wish I'd done before competing is to be able to have my rewards off my person. So to be able to run the course with your reward at the end of the course as you will have to do at a trial. I had a running off issues with my dog at trials for a while (I think partly due to not working on having rewards off my person). This is now fixed and he has been a good boy for a while (apart from visiting some kids sitting ringside ). Many Novice dogs do run off and leave the ring, so no need to be embarrassed if it does happen, probably has happened to most people at some point.

shantiah also shows greys

This has been a very interesting thread and I thank Nekhbet for posting so much educational information about ferreting. I would love for the thread to continue so I can learn more - can we try to keep it civil please :p I don't think I have the stomach to actually do the killing but I think the idea of actually utilising pest species for food is a great idea.

No food tonight (he has already had his share :D ) and keep an eye on him. He'll probably be fine.

I would leave it out for her to get used to. You can also feed her in it, give her bones and special treats in it to reinforce that it is a nice place to be. You can just throw treats in there for her to find. You could also try putting some bedding that already smells like her in there. Personally I would not use a soft crate for training purposes as dogs can destroy them and get out of them and they are not as secure as a wire or plastic crate - something to consider especially in the car for safety or when she has to be secure in there.

I agree with laeral - it would be easier to get them here (unless that model isn't in Australia) and Steve from K9Pro would be the best person to talk about it and about their use. I'm not sure about the legalities of ecollars in NSW - you might want to check that out as well before purchasing one as they are expensive.

Normally vets either give C3 or C5. There are two components of kennel cough vaccine which make the difference between C3 and C5.

There is a lot of scope between only giving the dog food and choking the dog til it passes out because you had to show the dog 'you were prepared to kill it to make it submit'

Does Cesar recommend the owners air block their dogs or alpha roll them if they display problem behaviours after he has done the initial work and left?

I agree you can teach LLW and competition heeling separately and they know the difference, but Garry said that people trained SchH using Keohler as their basis FIRST and then taught the competition heel. From what I have read of Koehler I also agree it is correction heavy and I don't think you need to be that correction heavy to achieve a good LLW, much less what impact it might have on teaching competition work.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with air blocking a dog in an emergency when it is going to bite you or another dog and you have no other choice. But Cesar purposely puts the dog in a situation that is beyond its threshold and uses air blocking as his method of choice to fix problems, every episode I have seen he is purposely very confrontational and cops MANY bites. Sure maybe air blocking is necessary sometimes in an emergency, but ALL the time on ALL the cases he sees? Surely there are ways to deal with some of the problems seen on the show which does not require strangling the dog!

Their heeling was very wide, left turns very sloppy (does not look like they have done rear end awareness with the dog).

This has happened to me - my dog on lead, other dog off lead and no owner present (dog wandering). Other dog attacked mine and mine sustained large injuries (several thousand $ worth). Other owner was liable, agreed to pay but I had problems getting the money off them. Ended up taking them to small claims court to get the money (which I did in the end). The one that was attacked was already aggressive towards other dogs, did not harm the off lead dog (off lead dog a bull breed and much larger and stronger than she is).

Why the assumption that it's either alpha roll and choke your dog until it gives up, or food and cuddles? Who here is saying that dogs shouldn't learn the rules? Why the insinuation that if you use food or praise with aggressive dogs you aren't also able to implementing boundaries or rules? I have no problem with giving corrections, using tools like prongs or e-collars etc or giving dog boundaries but some of the things Cesar does makes me feel quite ill. Besides, many people would not be strong enough to choke or alpha roll a 50kg aggressive newfie until it gave up (or just plain ran out of breath). No way would I want to try to string up a 50kg aggressive dog - that is more than I weigh :D

Well the other week ON THIS FORUM we had someone suggest they string the dog up for aggression towards other dogs :D so obviously the call for professional help for using these methods doesn't get through to everyone!

I found this as well (all this under searching Koehler method or Koehler training or Koehler dog - you are more than welcome to post a better example if yo know one) And you just admitted that training with aversive methods creats flatness in performance so why would someone aiming for performance use it?

I only recently found out about the ataxia thing, so don't know how many test for that, but I know Kaos's breeder X-rays her dogs for HD.