Kavik

Actually from memory she said she didn't teach contact equipment or weaves until 14 months she did do some jumping and tunnels, wobble board etc earlier. She also said she was competing with that dog by 18 months. Even if you don't opt to follow the Susan Garrett program, the One Jump DVD is fabulous for teaching obstacle focus and understanding of handling signals. And you can do the 2 x 2 weaves without having done her foundation work, your dog just needs an understanding of shaping. I really tried to watch the Susan Salo jumping DVD but it is rather slow paced and I haven't managed to get through it. I haven't done any jump grids with Kaos at all.

Clicker training and the use of reward markers is about teaching the dog to work things out for itself and to offer behaviours. In this regard it is quite different to traditional training where you show, guide or lure the dog into position. With clicker training, you let the dog work it out for itself and click/treat (reward) for behaviours that get progressively closer to what you want (successive approximation). It is also about teaching the dog how to cope with failure. Think of the click as a camera, taking a photo of the behaviour that occurred at the time of the click. It's like playing hot/cold, where the click tells the dog he is going in the right direction with the behaviour, and you gradually build up the behaviour from something small. Eg Walking backwards. You wait for the dog to move a paw (preferably backwards but any paw movement at first) and click/treat. Once the dog knows how to play the game they will offer the behaviour that gets rewarded more often, so you then click/treat, and then wait to see if the dog will give you more (in this case, more movement backwards) and click/treat that.

I always bring treats to reward recalls and do training. I very rarely go into 'dog parks' though as they are crowded and even when I do decide to go only occasionally is there an issue with a dog that tries to mob me. The owners just usually apologise. I never give treats to other people's dogs.

Great pics Yes more BCs do 3 sheep work than Kelpies. In Yard Trials you will see a lot of Kelpies I went to the Bathurst Royal with a friend several years ago and was my introduction to Yard Trials - it was so amazing to watch the dogs work!

Susan Garrett says she wants to achieve balance with her dogs - between 'quivering self control' and what she calls 'blinding squirrel speed' and between tug drive and food drive as examples. Like corvus says, sometimes in agility using food is the best and easiest way to achieve results (such as targeting, nose touches for teaching contact position) and toys are better for driving ahead. Also she uses tug as relationship building and revving up before exercises and as breaks between exercises, so needs to be able to switch betwen tug and food for this. As Kaos doesn't tug reliably, I use a thrown squeaky toy for driving ahead and games with food such as circle work, spins, hand touches for revving up before exercises and breaks between exercises. But I can see why tug would be better for this.

Were you told that specifically? Several of the working spot handlers were using food exclusively, and there was several dogs there that I never seen play with a tug toy. Should add merely curious is all You certainly had to have done Crate Games. I guess I assumed tug was a prerequisite as well as she doesn't really accept many students into her classes in Canada that won't tug and a lot of her program is reliant on you being able to tug with your dog.

She doesn't use physical or verbal corrections, so her program relies a lot on controlling access to reinforcement. You can't really do her program fully if your dog won't tug. (you certainly can't get a working spot at a seminar if your dog won't tug. She does not like using balls as rewards at all - has to be a tug for a toy reward. Got me into trouble as my dog prefers thrown squeaky toy to anything else ). She showed one clip where she was using food to teach self control and focus, and then at the end she wants to have a game of tug, and the dog doesn't want the tug (it does normally like tug) but wants to continue with the food game. She works with the dog and tug until she gets the dog tugging. It is very interesting.

Susan Garrett wants the dog to take whatever reward is offered, whether food or tug. She works hard at making sure the dog will take either one, and to be able to switch from one to the other in the same session. Mine will switch from food to squeaky fine but will lose interest in the tug if either food or squeaky is presented. I got some good tips on how to deal with this, we'll see how we go

Susan Garrett's One Jump DVD has some great ideas for teaching obstacle focus Really helped me as Kaos used to look at me as well. I would say the most useful agility DVD I have watched.

Teaching jumping off the DW so they kow how to bail is a good point and Vickie showed me this when I was having issues with Kaos. Susan Garrett also teaches this. Are you in a class where the seesaw is in a sequence? If so, could you just use your turn to work on the Seesaw? I have done this before at my club.

After having gone to the Susan Garrett seminar, I think this pup would be a great one to use her program on!

I agree with Greytmate on this one. While it is certainly possible to get most dogs to get along with the family cat, feral cats roaming onto your property are likely to make just about any dog chase. I think you may have to choose between having the feral cats and having dogs.

I just got back from the Susan Garrett 5 day seminar - it was AWESOME! I have so much information to process though and about a million new things to train She is a fantastic speaker and presenter and the time just went so fast. It was great having 5 days to concentrate soley on dog training and taking the dog for walks and swims. Even if we did get weather than alternated between very hot and raining

Kaos also has the agouti on his neck and small white patch on chest - the same size white as Hoover's.

sidoney reckoned she would have quite a bit of money if she had a dollar every time someone asked if Xia was a dingo I think she looks pretty obviously Kelpie

I've seen a lady with Leonbergers a couple of times

What I find interesting in terms of colour are cream Kelpies. I have met several of them now, they occasionally crop up in working line litters (Kaos's breeder gets them sometimes - sidoney's Xia is a cream from them). They are not rare but not that common either. Allowed in the WKC breed standard but not the ANKC standard WKC Any colour and markings historically associated with the development of the breed. For example Black with or without tan; blue (grey) ranging from dark to light, with or without tan; red ranging from chocolate to light red, with or without tan; fawn ranging from dark to light, with or without tan; tan ranging from dark to cream; Tan marking ranging from dark tan to cream and present in varying amounts. ANKC Black, black and tan, red, red and tan, fawn, chocolate, and smoke blue.

If the dog couldn't physically do its job I doubt the farmer would keep it or breed from it I am sure you can tell more about whether the dog can physically do its job by actually having the dog do its job than by purely looking at the dog. Everyone wants a good looking dog - me included I just think it is rather disrepectful to think that someone who has a dog as a pet and walks it around a show ring can judge the worth of the working dogs which people rely on for their living every day by their appearance. If the dogs were no good for their job, they wouldn't be there. And in the end, for those that keep sheep and require the dogs to work them, that is what counts. For those of us who have dogs as pets and sports dogs, we don't rely on our dogs for our living and can choose what we like and what we fancy. But it is a serious thing for those that live on the land.

Susan Garrett's Success With One Jump Susan Garrett's 2 x 2 Weave DVD if you plan on using that method to teach weaves.

Some great photos on the WKC site http://www.wkc.org.au/Gallery/Photos/YardT...YardTriall2010/

My opinion is you go to for the style you like and that suits what you want to do ;) You want to show and like the stockier, fluffier, solid coloured dogs get one of those. You like the leggier dogs with less coat get one of those. Same as my opinion on GSDs and believe me the debate there is much fiercer :D ETA: Kaos has the least coat of my dogs. He does have an undercoat but it is quite short. He does have longer fur on breeches and ruff around neck. His tail is a bit short (someone pointed it out to me, I had no idea!). He is also above standard height but at the top of standard weight. He is an awesome dog for what I wanted (agility) with plenty of drive, shows plenty of herding instinct (people have commented on his ability the few times I have taken him herding). I was not interested in a show dog, but in sports and performance, and temperament is very important to me since Zoe does not have a stable temperament, I wanted to make sure I got a dog with good temperament. I also prefer the look and drive of the working dogs. I like that they are still used for their original work and I value the time these people have put into their dogs to create the great dogs we have today. I have no criticism of the appearance of the dogs that actively work sheep. I have no problem with people who prefer the show type.

Was just comparing the ANKC Kelpie breed standard with the WKC one. Some interesting differences. On coat the WKC says: The outer coat should be moderately short, flat, and straight and weather resisting, with or without a short dense undercoat. On the head, ears, feet and legs the hair should be short. The coat can be slightly longer at the neck, at the rear of the thighs, and on the underside of the tail to form a brush. ANKC: The coat is a double coat with a short dense undercoat. The outercoat is close, each hair straight, hard, and lying flat, so that it is rain-resisting. Under the body, to behind the legs, the coat is longer and forms near the thigh a mild form of breeching. On the head (including the inside of the ears), to the front of the legs and feet, the hair is short. Along the neck it is longer and thicker forming a ruff. The tail should be furnished with a good brush. A coat either too long or too short is a fault. As an average, the hairs on the body should be from 2 to 3 cms (approx. 0.75 - 1.25 ins) in length.

I agree with Staranais :rolleyes: Find a breeder that is experienced in the discipline you want to pursue, or someone with experience that you trust to help you find a breeder that will have the sort of dog you are after. With GSD there are many things to consider and quite a lot of variation as well in temperament and in appearance.

So sorry Huga :rolleyes:

Sounds like she hasn't learned how to learn yet. Clicker is a good way to do it, start with simple things. It is only when you start working with a dog that doesn't know how to learn that you realise how much work you have put into your own dog