Kavik

I enjoy teaching aspects of obedience - find heel position, find front, finishes, turns etc as well as db work, but it is harder to find people to train with to help you get that spark in your dog in those exercises. For Diesel, training has to be very short and very fun or he will just dial in and not give a good performance (Zoe on the other hand, was walking her tonight and she voluntarily gave me focus attention heel for quite a bit of it without any prompting, and she is 11 1/2 yrs old ). Unfortunately all obedience classes I have been to, even the one I really liked, had a good portion of heeling patterns involved, and I wanted to achieve the amazing heeling I have seen in videos, and my dog can't give that kind of attention for that long. If I could find a group that worked on short fun exercises to get great attention heeling etc instead of long heeling patterns or basic manners I would be more tempted. In agility, even at a club, your turn is very short and fast and motivated, so you don't get to practice bad habits such as working slowly/sloppily (well unless you do something too hard/long for your dog's ability, but most of the time you can say so and shorten it/make it easier at my club).

I also love that in agility, you spend time in class (and trials) with other people walking the course, discussing handling options etc and also afterwards discussing your performance, how to improve, what else to try, what went wrong and why, what to work on - lots of feedback I agree with aussielover that you don't tend to get that level of feedback in obedience.

I also get nervous when I trial (getting better than I was though!) and was too terrified to enter Diesel in an obedience trial. I probably should have, just to see how we went before his health problems ruled it out. The fact that the scoring is quite precise in obedience and someone is carefully watching every move and positioning really terrifies me. In agility, results are what count. If you are serious, then of course you pay a lot of attention to your handling and runs where you don't qualify can feel better than ones that you do but were 'crunchy'. But it doesn't matter if you do a front cross or a rear cross or even (gasp!) a blind cross or if you have to baby the weaves and contacts, the scoring is not as minute, if the dog gets clear under time you qualify, they are not so much looking at your handling. So once you are out there and running you don't feel as scrutinised and can concentrate on having fun :D

What about starting small? Do training with the young dog in sight of the older dog in a familiar environment (ie home, yard) with older dog inaccessible either behind gate, crate, or held by another person on lead.

I think with agility you can make it very technical or not. Handling and obstacle performance at the top level is very complicated and training them properly takes time and lots of knowledge especially weaves and contacts, but also complicated handling. However people can and do train and compete without making it as technical too, just giving it a go and running with their dog. I am finding I really like the technical parts, proofing my weave entries, working on independent contacts, conplicated handling manouvres. And the speed is a buzz! :D I like the variety - the different obstacles, the different courses and challenges. ETA: The Susan Garrett seminar I went to was amazing in showing the large number of pocesses and criteria she has for her 2o2o contact training, much of it before you even get to the equipment and of course her 2x2 weave training. They are both very complicated and require knowledge and skill to do correctly.

I'm not surprised some people are wary of GSDs, Dobes, Rotties. They have the reputation and are sometimes used as police and security dogs, and it is this perception that also aids in those roles (people respect them, some are more worried about being bitten by a police dog than other police methods). If I wasn't prepared to deal with this attitude then I wouldn't have gotten a GSD. In my current area there are a lot of dogs of various breeds, and I have met several other GSDs and Dobes and people don't seem to be scared of them. Where I used to live (which had a smaller dog population and different ethnic mix) people were scared of my GSD. and tarope - I attended one GSD day with my boy and did a mock obedience trial and the steward collecting leads was scared of my dog! My boy is fairly small and very soft and sooky (and has the body language to match this ) whereas I've never had a problem with instructors being scared of my dog at normal obedience clubs.

Watched it online this morning. Great stuff!

Those owners would probably end up turning the nice pound dogs into horrible snappy dogs as well... Most "problem" behaviours are created by the owners. Hey - not all dog problems are created by the owner! Certainly not intentionally as you are suggesting Some of us with problem dogs work VERY hard to try to fix the problem. Some dogs are more difficult than others.

Actually there are some ancillary skills for agility that you can do in limited space ;) probably similar ones to obedience. Rear end awareness skills (pivoting on objects, walking backwards, balancing on objects, walking through ladder), contact position practice, spin, hand touches among others.

I prefer agility to obedience. I can appreciate the intricacy of obedience and do enjoy training some components (finishes, db work etc) but I find agility more fun and more rewarding. Also the courses are always different and provide lots of handling challenges and test the dog's understanding of obstacles. I am trying to get good independent obstacle performance so there is always a lot of work to do! It is also more exciting to watch and obvious that the dogs are really enjoying it. If you don't want to do obedience, don't I may give it another crack with another dog down the track but at the moment agility wins hands down!

When I worked at the dog daycare I met lots of nice Staffies but their play style and body language does not mix very well with my Kelpies so I avoid them.

He is working line (not registered though). Unfortunately he has some health problems (allergies/skin problems) so we didn't quite make it in obedience competition as he is very itchy and doesn't concentrate very well, but he is a sweet dog and a lovely pet (apart from the skin) - very smoochy, would lean on the judge for pats for SFE. He wouldn't cut it as a working dog though.

My GSD is the most social of all my dogs The most tolerant and the most submissive around other dogs. Big dorky boofhead that he is!

Some of my dogs don't like being rushed at, body slammed or postured so I avoid breeds who tend to do that (mainly Labs and Staffies). Just keeping them safe.

Actually thinking about whether two breeds will get along is important. Some breeds have play styles that others don't like or understand, some have body language or stances that other breeds interpret as intimidating or threatening, some body slam, some don't like body slamming, some are delicate, some rough, some big and not aware of smalls etc.

Many Working GSD breeders get blacks in their litters. A good GSD breeder will not breed for a single colour alone.

They can be shown square stack or 3 point stack. Because of politics theses dogs are only shown once a year at the state show or national show and most owners are not experienced handlers. Thus a square stack is easier to do. Thank you - that is good to know I didn't realise they could choose.

I noticed on th DOL profiles of White Shepherds that they didn't show them in a 3 point stack like GSDs - interesting.

Don't leave the food out. Place the food and give a small amount of time to eat it (15 mins or so) then pick it up and only offer at next mealtime. Free feeding encourages fussy eating and certainly does not help trying to use treats for training.

I love the look of Borders - nice and lean and leggy - though I have met some that aren't good with other dogs.

Asquith Park is near me - it is fenced and VERY small.

Diesel in his prime before his skin got bad

I would lure into the kind of drop you want (foldback if that is what you want) - no point in trying to retrain when you can do it right the first time. I teach drop from a stand. Quite easy to fade the lure, as with most things fade as soon as possible. All of my dogs have a good drop on verbal only as well as hand signal.

Exchange for a treat has always worked for me!

Thanks aussielover I would try breeders of working line GSD for what you are looking for. There are quite a few around. My fellow unfortunately has some health issues (allergies/skin problems) but there are some lovely ones out there - I met one yesterday, a gorgeous sable - even asked what kennel it came from for future reference turns out it was a police dog.