Kavik

Maybe he hasn't "learned how to learn" ?

Yes keeping them at the optimal arousal state for performance is tricky :) and each dog is different. With Kaos, I had to work to keep his arousal higher and rev him up. With Nitro I have to watch that his arousal doesn't get too high :laugh:

I compete in agility, so a good amount of arousal is helpful :) Nitro gets overaroused very easily, where he cannot listen or think well. When he is overaroused he will bark, do zoomies, and when he was a puppy he would bite (luckily we have fixed that part now!). He will also sometimes fixate on a person or dog and it is hard to break that focus on them (he wants to visit them), especially if they are moving as he likes to chase. That is obviously not conducive to training :) We are working through it, but it is not easy. So it is certainly possible for them to be overaroused, and I think it is important to be able to read your dog's emotional state.

Arousal is very important! Dogs certainly can become too aroused to listen and respond to cues. You can train them to work in a highly aroused state, but it does not happen automatically and takes time and effort. Some dogs are naturally more easily overaroused. One of my struggles with Nitro at the moment :laugh: Dogs also can be too worried/anxious to listen and respond to cues.

Itchy dogs are very frustrating! From my experiences with Diesel as an itchy dog, this is what I've learned: For a food trial to see if it is a food type that is the problem, it has to be a novel protein and carb for 6? weeks. Or one of the special kibble types from the vet (eg Hills Z/D) Changing to raw has helped my dog, he is not perfect now but better than he was. I also give him a supplement (Vet's All Natural Health Booster) You can go to a specialist dermatologist to get tests done to find out exactly what the problems are (I haven't done this, but given my time over, I would have done it at the beginning) Environmental issues can also be the problem, they can be harder to sort out - I have a feeling grass is part of our problem Sometimes you can't fully resolve the problem, just have to manage it the best you can

Any possibility he got into anything poisonous? Though I guess bloodwork would have checked that. Another possibility is Cerebellar Ataxia https://www.petcarerx.com/article/what-is-cerebellar-ataxia-in-dogs-and-cats/1668

Does it have to be NSW? Would you consider getting a pup from interstate? Not all puppies will be potential show quality, so someone breeding for the show ring is likely to still have puppies available to companion homes :) Show dogs are usually companions too :)

You are not 'adding' anything, so using the quadrants there is no way that withholding a reward could ever be any sort of positive punishment.

Quite simply, it is NOT positive punishment. http://www.dog-training-excellence.com/images/operant-quadrants.png

Um . . . . that is certainly NOT how I view it! That seems a very warped and pessimistic view of using rewards in training

Not really. For that to be the case, you would see a reduction across the board of that behaviour that failed to be rewarded. This usually results in general behavioural suppression, which is a pain in the arse for training. Rather, the behaviours that are not rewarded are abandoned through extinction. ...I made a second attempt to digest this, but na, I don't get it...???... I think she is saying that punishment/corrections can result in general behavioural suppression (dog unwilling to try new things/offer new behaviours) which makes training through positive reinforcement more difficult (especially if you like shaping). Withholding rewards leads to behaviours which are not rewarded not being repeated/going away through extinction.

You can always improve on what you have :) How far you can get with it (ie whether tug will ever be valuable enough for the dog to make a functional reward for sports) depends on the dog's temperament, you, how you approach your tugging, and what you have done to suppress it. I have struggled to get tugging to a useable level with my Kelpies. Kaos who is 9 1/2 will now tug reliably on toys as a reward at home, and will tug on his lead for relationship building/warm up at training and competitions, but will not tug on toys there. Nitro, who is 2 1/2 will tug on toys at home and in other locations, but not reliably, and not to the extent that I could use it as a reward. We are working on it :) As a result, I use a lot of food in my training as my dogs work well for food :) On the other hand, I walk a Stafford for someone in my neighbourhood, and he grabs his leash with gusto and will tug me to the end of the road :laugh:

You would still have the registration issue. And why should the working line dogs (who are still used for their original purpose) be the ones to change the name?

Here are a couple of things that I think would make it difficult to make field Labs and show Labs different breeds. 1) Criteria - what would be the criteria that separates them? 2) Registration - this is where it gets really tricky. Simple to say, just make them different breeds, but it is tricky to do in terms of registration. You would want to make it a change of breed name across all countries main registrations, with a certain amount of time accepting registrations of dogs of the previous breed. Otherwise, you will find yourself stuck with a very limited gene pool (as you will not be able to use dogs of the breed they were previously called). This is the biggest drawback in my opinion. I doubt that Labrador breeders in all countries would want a split of breed name between show and working, and which one would get to keep the original name of Labrador Retriever? If you didn't get universal support, you wouldn't be able to use imported dogs to improve your bloodlines.

I think the more environments and jobs a breed does, the more variation there will be. Looking at stockdogs such as Kelpies and BCs (since that is what I am more familiar with), there is a lot of variation in their job. Temperature variation where they work - influences coat type Type of terrain - open, flat, hilly, lots of trees or rocks, big paddocks, yards, shearing sheds - Influences structure and temperament type of stock - sheep - different breeds, cattle - different breeds, goats - different breeds, ducks and numbers of stock - influences temperament Then if you look at performance sports as well, this influences structure and temperament as well So the dog most suited to working in a cooler environment where it is open and flat on lots of 'light' sheep will be quite different to a dog most suited to working in a warmer environment in primarily closer yards on cattle. Looking at the larger stockworking dogs such as GSD and BSD there is also a change in their role to include protection/police/military and associated sports, which would also impact structure and temperament

Yes the Swiss White Shepherd recognition sounded like a struggle. It was still a lot about registries - several Australian breeders who had been breeding white Shepherds with local lines had to stop and restart their whole breeding program and import new dogs and couldn't use their current dogs due to the nature of registration.

Belgians are separated on coat type and colour. And even within that there are working/show splits especially with the Malinois :) My understanding of westie and Cairn is again it was originally separated on colour.

But why would the field Lab breeders want to change They are doing what the breed was originally developed for. And while I don't know about Lab breeding programs, but many breeders in other breeds will bring in dogs or semen from overseas to introduce new dogs into their breeding program. This wouldn't be possible if they changed the name since worldwide they are known as Labrador Retrievers.

The pictures on the bottom of this page clearly show the differences in structure between different types of German Shepherd, but they are all German Shepherds http://ottogsd.com/german-vs-american-german-shepherds.php There are some breeds which separated from other breeds such as American Cockers splitting from English Cockers, but I don't think there is a need in Labradors

GSD have distinct working and show lines, and there is no alternate registration for them as far as I am aware. Registration as others have pointed out is about being able to trace pedigrees. If it has a pedigree listing it is a certain breed with certain registration, it should be listed as such. People choose various aspects to breed for, if you look through DOL database there is a lot of variation in appearance in many breeds, even those without a show/working split.

With Kelpies, there has been a slight name difference, with Working Kelpie being the working bred dogs and Australian Kelpie being the bench/show bred dogs. What is quite interesting is that the USA is starting up registration for Kelpies and the name listed is Working Kelpie, not Australian Kelpie (which is its designated name under ANKC) http://www.akc.org/dog-breeds/working-kelpie/

Some working breeds have a different registry. Working Kelpies have their own registry (WKC - Working Kelpie Council), and have an open stud book. There are some which are dual registered ANKC and WKC but not very many. My WKC registered Kelpies can get on the Sporting Registry with ANKC for performance sports. Border Collies are an interesting case. They have several registries (ANKC, ISDS, and a couple of others), and a lot of dogs have multiple registrations.

Ah, welcome to the world of breed types :laugh: There are many breeds which have a working line/show line split, including the breeds I own and all of the breeds I am interested in :laugh: The most important thing for someone looking for a puppy is to research the breeders, and get information on their lines and what their dogs are like so you can find the one best suited to you :)

For this particular exemption, only stockworking dogs are eligible as far as I am aware

I see people doing things with young BCs that just blow me away! Granted I didn't raise my girl as a performance puppy but her attention was all over the shop prior to 12 months of age. She's a workaholic now but if its not sheep work, she still has a pretty strong opinion of when she should work and what she should be doing, lol. I follow Susan Garrett and really enjoyed Puppy Peaks and watching her raise Swagger, and tried a lot of the stuff with Nitro, but not all of it worked, and some just by watching the videos I would say, nup my puppy won't react like that, if I tried that he'd just give me the finger! (or bark, or bite me, or do zoomies!)