inez

I am of very strong belief that breeders be it registered breeders or BYB's need to be scrutinised and held accountable for their reproductions. I am really tired of the fact the breeding of dogs is a complete free for all, breed what you want when you want, personally, I would like to see it as an offence to breed dogs without a licence with the introduction of a BSL....."breeder specific legislation" It is not, and has never been a "free for all" for registered breeders. Registered/show breeders face amazingly few restrictions with relation to temperament. I would have no problem registering a Labrador that is gun shy, hates water, and is dog aggressive. Such a dog could even be titled, provided that the DA can be curbed in the ring. However a cosmetic fault, such as light eye colour (which. btw, gives the dog better night vision) seriously affects results of competition in the ring. Sadly some show breeders are worse offenders at messing up temperament for the sake of the potential ribbon. Funny the amount of Golden Retreivers of late with severe fear of thunder and fireworks........years ago a gun dog was bullet proof to such a noise........not anymore, so who is breeding gun shy gun dogs?? As for food agression, good grief, a neighbours golden would attack anyone who picked up even one of his left over bones to put it in the bin. Mavellous temprement selection by his breeder if thats anything to go by.

There was quite a stir when the results came back for a german coolie. I remember rotti was one of the breeds identified in it,

No it happened last year. PUBLISHED: 15:55 GMT, 12 October 2012 Wonder what a follow up might reveal, does her new puppy have the run of the neighbourhood or not? The owner of the lab didnt, much to the neighbourhoods relief, the owner of the neo moved, that too was much to the neighbourhoods relief. I do find it interesting that someone here finds it ok to suggest I am not a dog lover because I do not find such creatures lovable at all. Well its a pity that the ones of that type arent in your neighbourhood, where you can love and appreceite them, instead of the people I know, including myself, who dont want them running free to do as they please, would far prefer they stay at home, or dissappear permantly like the neo and the lab. From the comments in the press clipping, the neighbours there wont be mourning that dogs loss either.

How interesting, you all are here because you love dogs. Yet not a single comment on the link where a chap decided to make sure his dog had a chance of life for a change,instead of the attacking dog. Considering the neighbour had a similar view of the 'frenzied attack'. Maybe its about time more people like that chap despatched the agressor instead of simply trying to get them to let go and maybe given behavour modification training. Did not look as if the owner of the slain dog believed it was any but the innocent victum so wonder if any behaviour modification has any chance of occurring there if she gets another just like her lost pet. I expect the owner of the labrador that repeadly tried to kill a neighbour half a block away's toy dog and yes another left to run where it pleased, jumped the fence to finish it off, would have except the engraged owner shot and buried the dammed thing. Think he had returned the lab 4 times asking the owner to please keep him home before the final solution that day was decided as the lab had his dog pinned. No one has told the lab's owner in case of retaliation, he thinks its simply dissappeared. I wonder? How many times this solution is happening? Just in case you cant figure where the link is. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2216806/Mother-watches-horror-American-Bulldog-stabbed-23-times-irate-pet-owner-fight-dog.html By the date it only happend yesterday.

hit the wrongkey

Great post Aphra. Your both right, thanks for pointing it out. After you have been attacked its a bit hard to retain perspective or be objective.

You really dont understand do you? Its not the tens of thousands of good dogs that are the problem. Its the few that have temprement problems whose owners dont man up and make sure they are not given an inch to be a danger to the community, OR PUT THE DARN THING DOWN, who are the reasons these headlines happen. The owner of that dog in the link, thinks she and her dog are the victum in that scene. She and people like her and the owner of that Neo AND the dogs who attacked the jogger, ARE THE PROBLEM. Maybe its a about time people stopped being polite and saying "shame on you" to people like the woman in the link who was just as sure her baby wouldnt hurt a fly and let him run where he liked? Maybe its about time public opinion expected people to keep their dogs at home and under control. Instead of crying foul and asking government to DO SOMETHING. Its only the people who have daily contact with these nusiance dogs who end up telling the press, we all knew he/she/they are trouble.

Dead ringer for that so rare "blue" Neo, except, 30 people heaved a sigh of relief to learn he had died. His owner was devestated just like this lady http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2216806/Mother-watches-horror-American-Bulldog-stabbed-23-times-irate-pet-owner-fight-dog.html The neo in question was pretty much as cute looking when he was on his owners lounge, verandah and lawn, pity they didnt keep him there. Did the neo's owner care about keeping their dog under control. Never. The neo's owner didnt care a jot. The damm thing would threaten to attack anyone trying to get to their own car, unless the owner was home to call it off. People today are maybe too dammed polite. Back in the olden days a shot would have dispatched such dogs. The last straw was when it went into the dressage arena and stright into the path of a cantering pony, the dog didnt see the pony as he slid under the rail then soon as he realised the pony was only feet away he spun at it and went for its face. They pony in panic fled dumping the child riding it. The dog began to strut at the child and threatened it too but by then all the adults were running at it and screaming at it to go home, which for a change it did. There had been 6 children having their lessons. By the end of the incident only 3 were still on their ponies. The others all needed medical attention for their injouries. (thats a problem with ponies and horses, one panics and takes fright the rest flee too. Its instinctive, especially when a giant appears from nowhere and attacks one of their number. I doubt the screaming running parents helped the situation.) An official letter of complaint was sent regarding that incident and the many others and the owner decided maybe having him desexed would solve his aggression problems. Never seemed to occur to them, keeping it in their own property might have been a start. There was jubilation when it was learned he died during the op. All dogs are cute at home with their humans. They are far from cute or wanted on Public area's or other peoples land. Its a pity that message doesnt get out there LOUD AND CLEAR? HOW can that be achieved? I am rather sure if it was, there would no longer be such headlines and the poor jogger (the OP is about) wouldnt be in Liverpool hospital either. I bet the owner of the dogs who tore him to pieces can show you their cute goofy mug shots at home too. Except they werent at home being loving and goofy that day? They too probably just loooove their pigs ears. Maybe their owner forgot to bring some home so they went out to collect some for themselves? Didnt the cannibals of old describe their dinner as long pig? Maybe they just thought the jogger was their long pig and it was all just an unfortunate case of mistaken identity?

And what about the 54% that dont come from any known source, frequently neither vaccinated, chipped or wormed , many passed on to new homes before they are even 4 and 5 weeks old? A documented cause of poor socialisation in such puppies.

There is a vet in Sydney who wanted to get all the other vets in Sydney to put together a recommendation list of breeders they had found to be producing predominately sound pups. To be handed out to any client looking for a new pup. He said some kennels were producing a vets dream, in so far as mega dollars to be made treating all the problems they grew up with and never a chance at normal quality of life. I do know his wish list of kennels he would like to see dissapper off the map. His idea fell in a heap because most of the other vets he spoke to about it, didnt want to risk comming on board in case they could be sued if a pup didnt turn out ok. As it is I can see their point. Many people are being told to sue the breeder if their pup develops HD or Luxating Patella, regardless of the parents scores. The argument being a reputable breeder should guarantee the pups soundness and pay for all costs to rectify if it does develop large vet bill problems. Especially in the light of that experiment where diet was discovered to reduce the incidence by almost 50 percent in puppies whos over fed siblings recorded twice the incidence? I well remember friends being told to contact a very famous breeder, recommended by Rob Zammit as producing extremly sound dogs. Yes that breeder does. But the catch is once that breeder retires there is no where anyone can access any dogs of that line to continue these great dogs. None are ever sold for breeding all are sold as pets on desexing contracts. I was brought up that a 'breeder' not only was perserving the work of the countless breeders before them, but preserving their work to pass on for the future. A disturbingly large number now have no such belief.

The 'self regulation' I and many others tend to see is a significant number of those that feel anyone in their breed that is not to their liking or self proclaimed standard (and that can include even simply 'I dont like him/her' or another I know copped it because she was beating somone who up until then had almost a monoply on winning. One victum couldnt believe when she discovered she was on the hit list, constantly sobbing, "but why, they ate my cakes, they let me work my butt off orgainising the shows and tropies and gathering donations for research?") gets reported repeatedly to the various animal welfare groups and council, until the humilation gets to them and they give up their dogs or give up breeding. Then Champers all round among the self proclaimed 'ethicals'. Remarkably similar to the witchhunts of old, anyone you dont like, had a tiff with, has something you want, all the usual suspects reasons. As for actually being proud of and breeding for sound pets??????????? :eek: From whatI hear anyway, unless you only breed a very few solely for the next generation champion, (you are permitted the remainder sold on LR regardless of quality) and never let a soul that isnt already a member of your breed club have a main register puppy (I know many have NEVER released a MR puppy outside their kennel and proud of it) you have become the worse imaginable... Tends to make it appear that new members and breed numbers have only one way to go. Barring a miracle its self regulating itself out of existance anyway. :laugh:

ha but I bet in 3/4 of cases it pins itself on a very similar kind of owner.

we both know it dont we.

Absolutly right.

Your kidding I hope. Some one needs an eye test.

you are spot on, they shift from breed to breed, look for the savage ones, even deliberately breed for it, if they arent, train them to be savage, those that get out and attack innocents , destroy not only peoples lives, as well their breed's reputation in the process. Unfortunately they are selecting for dogs much more able to do terrible damage than were available to them in the past. I suspect the idea behind BSL was to reduce and or eliminate their chance to source such dogs, but that was NEVER going to work. Those who thought that one up, forget the gun laws only punish the honest. The crims have no problem getting whatever they want, when they want. I was looking up the comments on the various breeds in favour with the type of people you mentioned. Doesnt seem like any of them would cope well with the homelife they would be getting with the "morons in society who use them as a extension of their manhood to make them feel better about themselves" Werent there comments made along similar lines about the attitude of the owner of the three dogs at the Ashcroft attack? In that case isnt the owner a woman? Looking down the list of popular 'breeds' here and overseas . Notice, what it says about their needs. Little chance of them receiving what they should get with the problem people is there? Wonder how many bull breed lovers would walk down the street if it contained two or three of the last four named breeds? AMERICAN BULLDOG American Bulldogs are working dogs that need to move around and accomplish tasks. Probably not the best apartment dogs, they need daily walks, room to run and lots of fresh air to maintain a healthy mind and body. Being dominant dogs, American Bulldogs need either an experienced dog handler or a master with a firm hand to remind them who’s in charge. These powerful dogs are often unaware of their own strength, but with proper training and human contact—especially at an early age—they will be just as outgoing with strangers and other dogs as they are with their owners. A healthy American Bulldog can live as long as 15 years. Generally healthy, they can sometimes develop hip dysplasia. American PIT BULL TERRIER (Also known as Pitbull and Pit Bull) This family dog blends strength, sweetness, and intelligence. American Pit Bull Terrier Breed The American Pit Bull Terrier is a companion and family dog breed. Originally bred to "bait" bulls, the breed evolved into all-around farm dogs, and later moved into the house to become "nanny dogs" because they were so gentle around children. Their tenacity, gameness, and courage make them popular competitors in the sports of weight pulling, agility, and obedience competition. The American Pit Bull Terrier is one of the so-called bully breeds often labeled a pit bull. In fact, "pit bull" isn't a breed, but a term used to describe the American Pit Bull Terrier, the Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Some people say the American Pit Bull Terrier is the same as the American Staffordshire Terrier. Others, just as forcefully, say they're entirely different breeds. But all experts can agree that the confusion started with a decision by the AKC in the early 1930s to give it a new name, American Staffordshire Terrier, to separate it from its pit-fighting past. The American Pit Bull Terrier has not been recognized by the AKC, while the American Staffordshire Terrier, which is slightly smaller, has been. The bull breeds are often grossly misunderstood. The qualities that make these dogs tenacious players in obedience and agility games also attract highly unscrupulous people looking for strong competitors for their dog fighting rings. The sorry result is that bull breeds, in particular the APBT, have gained a reputation over recent years for being dangerous. Nothing could be further from the truth. But rampant misinformation and fear caused by the actions of a minority of dogs kept by criminally negligent people have provoked legislation against the breed in a number of cities and countries around the world. As the owner of an American Pit Bull Terrier you must be aware that you may be met with anger and hostility by people who are misinformed about your wonderful dog. This is not a breed for everyone, especially those who aren't willing to invest time in training and socialization and can't or won't provide consistent firm guidance. When raised with the proper training and socialization, the American Pit Bull Terrier makes an excellent companion for children. He is loving and gentle with people and often makes a lousy guard dog because of his tail-wagging eagerness to greet the person at the door.American Pit Bull Terriers are devoted and loyal to their family and will, if necessary, defend them to the death. BULL TERRIER Bull Terriers should not be left alone for long periods of time. A neglected Bull Terrier can easily become flustered or depressed. They need lots of one-on-one attention, love, positive feedback and family time. You should consider an AmStaff only if you have the time, strength and know-how to train and socialize your pet. American Staffordshire Terriers sometimes display protective or competitive instincts around other dogs and animals. These dogs might not be the best apartment dwellers, though as long as they get plenty of outdoor exercise they’ll be happy. Ideally, a fenced yard suits them best, not to mention daily games of fetch and constructive “tasks.” They should be kept on a leash while on walks and at the park. . AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER Bred to be both swift and strong, American Staffordshire Terriers love to play fetch, go for runs and work. They are very strong for their size: AmStaffs can pull very heavy objects, bite through rubber and wire, and they have a high tolerance for pain and fatigue. Keep them busy and loaded with positive reinforcement, and they’ll maintain an upbeat and steady mood. CANE CORSO Only get this breed if you plan to spend a lot of time with them -- they are true family dogs. If you want a Cane Corso, I suggest bringing them home when you can be on vacation for at least two weeks. I feel if they are trained right they do not need a crate. They are very easy to train -- my dogs have all been broken in two weeks. This breed needs a lot of exercise and running, but they are also very happy to spend the day on the couch. If you work all day, have a dog walker come in and out or if you have a secure fenced yard, put in a doggy door. Cane Corsos are fine with cats. My dogs are also great with small children and the elderly. They are very smart and gentle, but having said that, like any breed, if you teach them to be bad or let them go untrained you are in for trouble. Make it very clear what are toys and what are not. Put the toys in a bin and teach them that this is their box of goodies. My dogs know all their toys by name. DOGO DE ARGENTINO In countries where the breed is permitted, they require a dominant master. The Dogo Argentino requires early socialisation with other animals and early obedience training is vital. Dogos can be aggressive with other dogs but will not usually provoke the confrontation. The Dogo is not a dog that can be expected to get along well at a dog park with a lot of strange dogs. It is generally not recommended to try to keep a male Dogo in the same household with another male of a large breed. This is asking for trouble. Dogos also often exhibit frustration or displacement aggression as well as food/bone guarding. FILA BRASILIERO The Fila Brasileiro also goes by the names Brazilian Mastiff or Brazilian Molosser. The Fila Brasileiro is a mastiff breed from Brazil. He is a fierce guard dog with a massive head, heavy rectangular body, and brindle or fawn coat. In the show ring he may require the control of two handlers.The Fila is not an appropriate choice for an inexperienced dog owner. While the breed standard for the Fila says that he should be docile and obedient with his family, extremely tolerant with children, and calm and self-assured in new situations, he doesn’t come that way. This dog is large, powerful, intelligent, active, and headstrong. He also has outstanding courage, determination, and bravery. A Fila needs a leader who can develop and manage all of those characteristics by guiding the dog with firmness and consistency but without using force or cruelty. Early, frequent socialization is essential. Purchase a Fila puppy from a breeder who raises the pups in the home and ensures that they are exposed to many different household sights and sounds, as well as people. Continue socializing your Fila throughout his life by taking him to puppy kindergarten class, on visits with friends and neighbors, and on outings to local shops and businesses. It is the only way he can learn to be discriminating, recognizing what is normal and what is truly a threat. That said, no amount of socialization will make him friendly toward everyone. NEOPOLITAN MASTIFF Despite their size and ferocious history, today's Neapolitan Mastiffs are calm and placid in nature. They are better described as a gentle giant than an aggressive fighter. Neapolitans are strong minded and will not respond to harsh treatment. They will learn respect through good training and a stern voice. One US breeder describes their character as such "it's a bit like asking your husband to take out the rubbish...he might do it later." Neapolitans are very easy going and fairly even tempered, but they can also be pretty big sooks. These dogs are large, cumbersome and often clumsy. They have a reputation as efficient guard dogs, but they are better suited to life as a companion. There is not much that will faze them and they need a more serious situation to respond in an aggressive manner. The Neapolitan's success as a guard dog rests mostly on its appearance. The dog will stop and stand its ground with a stare. They also have a deep loud bark, that usually warns off approaching strangers. Training Training and discipline are essential in Neapolitan Mastiffs especially when they are young. The first 12 months is the most important time to show the dog who is in charge. They do need a lot of input from the owner to get the required result and disciplining the dog quickly and firmly is the best method. They need consistent contact with people and will bond with the entire family. Giving the dog lots of experience with different situations and stimuli will reduce potential problems. In the case of the Neo,thanks to the complate lack of responsablity on the part of the owner who wouldnt make sure her dog remained in its home yard, the entire membership of club of which my family are members got a very good introduction into what potential danger an untrained unsupervised neo can become. In the end no one could leave the clubhouse to get to their cars unless the owner came and took him home. Everyone was relieved when they learned he died during desexing.

" They are restricted to human homes, where they must obey commands and can only eat, drink, and even urinate when humans allow them to." Any toddler can tell "you this is my world" and even worse, they are forced to wear nappies and wait until its been noticed its soiled,and that continues until they can control themselves and use the loo.

Cavaliers are prone to developing syringomyelia. The cause is not known, and there is no cure. Basically the dog's head hurts all the time. So, there is no reason for not banning them which is what the Dutch parliament did. 2% of Cavaliers are affected in Aus, more overseas. Many other toy breeds develop SM too, but there is no publicity about that. Edited to say - Unfortunately, Steve, AR divided the dog fancy 20 years ago so it would not be as strong, or as difficult to overcome. And of course we have our differences too. Once there was no shame attached to not showing. There was no shame in having 3 or 4 litters a year. The only criteria was that the dogs were well cared for. There were no puppy farms either and registered breeders tended to not worry about byb. What isnt being mentioned syringomyelia occurs in many species including humans. Is a ban on homo sapien production comming anytime soon? Every conception is a game of chance, breeders before ankc and shows came on the scene were selecting to not only type which created the breeds in the first place but soundness in both body and mind. A dog with an untrustworthy or trainable temprement was culled. Culled usually meant killed, it didnt get counselling or a behavourist trying to help it cope. Unless the powers that be, decide only suitable proven, sound, long lived, healty, dogs/humans/whatever, be cloned, (the risk of breeding, even from from them still could produce an unsound result) there are no guarantees in conception. Certainly not yet.

Can only hope there is a dog breeds dna bank like the world seed bank so maybe some day they can be brought back for our descendants to enjoy loving as much as we did? Looks like they will be long gone, before the ostrich's pull their heads out of the sand.

Hasnt the message been for quite some time now that pet shops, puppy farmers and unethical breeders/greeders is the souce of all evil and flooding the shelters? Goodness, no honest ANKC breeder would dare hope to make a cent from a litter. Mind you the same people who despises 'greedeers' would have a fit if you asked them to fix your car, house, plumbing, whatever, for free to show how ethical they are and dont expect to be actually paid for their hardwork surely? Those who are not newbies can see where this is going, a lot more has changed than the transformation from cart to car, from hand cranked phone to ipad.

absolutely, shut down every known commercial breeder along with every ANKC breeder and what have you got? only roughly http://leemakennels.com/blog/dogs-and-politics/where-do-puppies-come-from/ " If the 450,000 number is correct, then we have almost 250,000 dogs a year coming from an unknown source." to track down.With to date no possible idea how? They cant find, let alone control the 54.4% of the main source of puppies? Since there is no way, the only solution is to eliminate the ones that can be surely? Once they have plugged any possible production from the 29.5% that come from pet shops 15% (67,500 puppies) and ANKC breeders 14.5%. (65,364 puppies) a staggering total of 132,864 puppies will be removed to no longer deny the 250,000 puppies a year coming from an unknown source who really need to find homes. The only possible way to ensure these 250,000 puppies looking for new homes can find them and reduce their chances of ending up in rescue is shut down all tracable breeders and pet shop puppies so no more can they be the cause of these truly deserving puppies to end up in rescue instead they can be absorbed by the homes the tracable breeders puppies have to date been stealing from the puppies who really need those homes. Cant fail to applaud such a noble concept. Who cares that some people actually might want to choose their puppy from a known breed of their choice, the sooner the population realises choosing their pet does not include a freedom of choice (well you are allowed to choose from what is available, whatever that might be) . You are not chosing a car, your saving a puppy.

Dream on. My sister has two purebred undesexed bitches. Her vet asked her every time she took them for their vaccinations and checkup when would she like them booked in for desexing. In the end she lost it and asked the idiot. if you desex every female pup that comes here where on earth do you think your next clients pups are going to come from?? Take a long quiet look next time you are at a vets...ANY VETS. Everyone of them are activly encouraging every pup owner to get the 'job' done. Even pure bred main registered pups and you just try and find a mainregister pup of any sex available for sale. Considering not that long ago on average there were 2,500 to 3,000 maltese pups a year registered last I heard there were 200 for 2012. considering there is a small white fluffy on every second street corner to be seen they are one of the most popular breeds to be seen. obviously 90percent of them cant have come from a registered breeder thats for sure. I have no doubt that most vets will encourage desexing of family pets , not everyone shows or is a registered breeder so recommending desexing seems like a responsible bit of advice - go figure. Neither this nor PETA are indications that the sky is falling. Except from day one she told him they were main registered and had no wish to desex them. So where do you get the idea he thought they were solely family pets?

Sounds a bit odd to me, why would you want your dogs out there getting a reputation for being infertile? I'd have thought there would still be a pretty obvious surgical wound on the bitches There was. They were all bitches, I only found out because I spotted the marks as the puppies were rolling and playing, and said. Ho what a pity they all had hernias? She blushed and said, "no they've been desexed." then the new owners arrived and as she handed them their papers I could see they were all main registered, and I asked why desex them if they are main register? She said "they all wanted their pup on main register, but only want it as a pet, they said they only wanted to option to decide, if, they might want to breed down the track." Then laughed. We were at an interschool sporting day and she had arranged for thir new owners to pick them up at the sports oval so she didnt miss watching her kids while she waited. I was pretty astonished anyone would desex a puppy that young let alone a whole litter or do that to the buyers. Often wondered if she got sued.

Dream on. My sister has two purebred undesexed bitches. Her vet asked her every time she took them for their vaccinations and checkup when would she like them booked in for desexing. In the end she lost it and asked the idiot. if you desex every female pup that comes here where on earth do you think your next clients pups are going to come from?? Take a long quiet look next time you are at a vets...ANY VETS. Everyone of them are activly encouraging every pup owner to get the 'job' done. Even pure bred main registered pups and you just try and find a mainregister pup of any sex available for sale. Considering not that long ago on average there were 2,500 to 3,000 maltese pups a year registered last I heard there were 200 for 2012. considering there is a small white fluffy on every second street corner to be seen they are one of the most popular breeds to be seen. obviously 90percent of them cant have come from a registered breeder thats for sure. I'm calling bulls**t on this. Not once has my vet asked me when I'm getting my dogs desexed. He and the staff have never been anything but supportive and helpful for me as a breeder. In fact they have gone so far as to send me emails when eye clinics are happening and give breeder discounts. They have also recommended a couple of puppy buyers to me. And btw I have never had an issue buying a main registered puppy from anyone. I also sold main reg puppy to a new exhibitor and have intentions on selling another to a new exhibitor from my next litter too. Not everyone is the difficult, purebred hating, newbie stopping person you seem to think they are congratulations, my sister needs to change vets. although have a read of the puppies for sale on dogzonline and count how many specifically state only limit register pups available and how many have any on main register. I have met many who freely boast they never will and never have sold a puppy on main register. There is one lady I met who freely sells her puppies on main register, what the buyer doesnt know is they have already been desexed before 8 weeks.

Dream on. My sister has two purebred undesexed bitches. Her vet asked her every time she took them for their vaccinations and checkup when would she like them booked in for desexing. In the end she lost it and asked the idiot. if you desex every female pup that comes here where on earth do you think your next clients pups are going to come from?? Take a long quiet look next time you are at a vets...ANY VETS. Everyone of them are activly encouraging every pup owner to get the 'job' done. Even pure bred main registered pups and you just try and find a mainregister pup of any sex available for sale. Considering not that long ago on average there were 2,500 to 3,000 maltese pups a year registered last I heard there were 200 for 2012. considering there is a small white fluffy on every second street corner to be seen they are one of the most popular breeds to be seen. obviously 90percent of them cant have come from a registered breeder thats for sure.