RazorBlade

I've never seen a ranger where I live, only after my dog attack. You shouldn't have to spend your family walk ducking, diving and weaving around other people's off leash dogs but it seems to be a way of life for all of us these days. Being a dog owner for some is about no care taken and no responsibility accepted. We are all going to end up being policed to death with dog laws, where barking at the Metre reader man through a closed gate will be considered menacing, all because of the few messing it up for the rest of us. For many people its also about taking all care and accepting all responsibility.

I've asked these same questions and haven't really got a sensible answer from the off leash walkers, only a lot of clap trap about having a special bond with their dog. I don't get there need to do it either, I suspect the real reason doesn't sound as uplifting as the bonding claim and has more to do with looking cool and being super human, showing the world what a superior being they must be to have such control over their large pet, that they don't need to tie their dog to them. I've even been told repeatedly that an unleashed dog doesn't mean an uncontrolled dog, there's a highly irrational statement if ever there was one. They don't even attempt to explain why they feel they are entitled to break the law. It's all very odd I've never come across a state of denial quite like it. What bothers me is that if this forum is a cross section of our society, say if there are 10 posters at any one time and two of them haven't got a problem with walking there dog off leash, does that mean out in the real world that two out of every ten dog owners feel they are entitled to break the leash laws too. Scary idea I think. If there wasn't value/benefit in walking your dog off lead then there wouldn't be any demand for off lead dog areas. Pretty sure I've even seen threads in this very forming asking for greater off lead areas. Just because you don't see value in it doesn't mean that others don't.

I've got my tin foil hat on so I think I'm safe.

Yes accidents happens. But we don't need to go and drive on the wrong side of the road just because we're confident drivers. If people want to live on the "wild side" they should do so in their own little space and shouldn't be putting the public at risk. Now I know people who've witnessed off-lead dogs tear up an on-lead dogs in front of it's owners. Guts flying everywhere. I've had many close calls myself. Little dogs rushing at us. My quick thinking has saved many off-lead dogs lives. So yes I do scan a head and I am aware of my surroundings. So I'd rather be aware then ignorant. I agree wholeheartedly, aware and alert beats the hell out of panic stricken. I can not personally justify carrying a maglite or a stick or cattle prod no matter how many unfriendly dogs we've come across. It honestly stinks of all kinds of crazy to me and I really have to bow out of this ridiculous thread now. It's infuriating from both sides of the argument, you should not have your dogs ambling free off lead, there's not any real need, however if shit happens and my dog happened to say get out after a break in, or snap his collar or something else happen and some loony beat him or sprayed him I would be beyond furious and as much as you have a right to defend your own, so would I. And I would. Friendly off lead dogs don't bother me in the slightest, but it's law as the majority are troublesome or less than controlled, but from the other side of the fence you really need to assess the situation at hand before losing your mind and whipping out a cattle prod. Perhaps if you really are considering arming yourself because walks in your neighborhood are so traumatic for you, it might be best to think about a dog treadmill or an acreage or something. I really would be more concerned about some unauthorised person carrying a concealed weapon than a dog. Oh and I'll just leave this here too, from www.police.vic.gov.au So what do you suggest us crazies do if a loose dog is attacking our dogs? Imagine I'm walking my 12 year shih tzu and some bigger dog rushes at us and grabs him and shakes him. What is the non-crazy thing to do in your opinion? Yes do tell Steph, we are all ears. What would you do in that circumstance? A concealed telescopic baton (If I can get my hands on one)would be my choice of weapon. Ill happily pay the fine. And since I'm a'crazy' the fine should be a reduced one. ;) ;) Oh and BTW for 12 yrs I lived on a small acreage. I had to fence in a large house paddock for my dogs. Had packs of the neighbourhood's dogs wondering through it looking to attack stock,native animals and my Border collies. Unfortunately there's no escaping idiot dog owners. No escaping them, that appears to be true, mores the pity. Many years ago I had a farm behind my property, a neighbors dog got on to the farm and harrassed the sheep, the farmer followed the dog back to its house and shot it dead in its own back garden, and he got away with it too. Something to do with having farm stock attacked. We were all horrified that he followed the dog and shot it, but now I understand why he did it, now I have more experience of what dogs are capable of. That farmer knew the dog would be back now it had a taste for lambs. BTW the owners of the dog had been warned several times and the farmer had made sure those warnings went on record at the council. How has this got anything to do with a person who takes their dog for a walk and doesn't leash it every second of the walk? I was answering Bozzie's part of this thread on farm stock being attacked, heres the quote "Had packs of the neighbourhood's dogs wondering through it looking to attack stock,native animals and my Border collies". Try to keep up with the story Razor. And how has that got anything to do with a person who takes their dog for a walk and doesn't leash it every second of the walk?

It's a phenomenon called 'blame the victim', Trudy. A scenario that lives in the head of the person who blames the victim. Totally and absolutely agree with this comment. I might add its usually bullies who are afflicted with this phenomenon. Keep fighting the good fight Trudy. Thanks everyone for your support. I generally come across two types of off leash dog walkers, the ones with the excitable dogs are the bullies, they seem to be very defensive if anyone objects to their dog getting up close and personal, it's like they've come out to get in a fight, and having their dog off leash works for them every time, they have this superior attitude that shouts "I've got a big dog be careful what you say to me". Then there's the other type who walk passed with their dog like a shadow that doesn't look left or right, those I like, however both types are doing something illegal which may one day be also classed as menacing. Bullies are angry at the world and want to pass on their pain to anyone they come across who seems weaker than them. You love a stereotype don't you.

It was my open golf umbrella that saved me and my dog when we got attacked, thank God it was raining that day or I wouldn't have had it with me, its the reason I didn't get bitten, the dogs bit the umbrella instead. I can imagine how scary it would be to navigate around off leash dogs with your dog not 100% fit. I've had a ball come past me out of nowhere and a Dobermann fly past after it in a suburban walkway. After a few more ball tosses I politely informed the owner that my rotator cuff muscles didn't need any further work out from my dogs lunging after the ball. No doubt I was 'hysterical'. Oh yes we mustn't be hysterical that would be awful. I hate becoming that woman in the park who objects to off leash dogs getting in my space but I'll keep objecting until the owners get a grip on their pets. I'm aware they love their dogs but I don't need to be knocked over by their darling and then get a cursory "Oh sorry he was only playing". I congratulate you on your crusade. Your problem is that you fail to understand that and off lead dog does not automatically result in an out of control dog. Every second post from you is you regaling us with a terrifying story where you have been rushed/attacked/mauled by and out if control dog. These dogs and owners have not been in control, have not been acting responsibly or with consideration. At no point have I said this behaviour is ok. It's getting to the point now where these things seem to be happening with such intensity and frequency to you, coupled with the fact that your experience is so extremely different to mine and many other dog owners I know, that I'm starting to think maybe you have some other contributing factors. That is great that your dog is so obedient, Razorblade. Dogs have their own minds though and regardless of training can forget themselves sometimes. Has your dog ever moved from your side or gone to sniff another dog or completely disobeyed you? I bet you will say no but at least be honest with yourself and stick to leash free areas if that is how you choose to walk your dog. Of course he doesn't stay 100% at heel 100% of the time. He likes to explore. But in considerate enough to call him back or put him into a drop when I see other people.

Yes accidents happens. But we don't need to go and drive on the wrong side of the road just because we're confident drivers. If people want to live on the "wild side" they should do so in their own little space and shouldn't be putting the public at risk. Now I know people who've witnessed off-lead dogs tear up an on-lead dogs in front of it's owners. Guts flying everywhere. I've had many close calls myself. Little dogs rushing at us. My quick thinking has saved many off-lead dogs lives. So yes I do scan a head and I am aware of my surroundings. So I'd rather be aware then ignorant. I agree wholeheartedly, aware and alert beats the hell out of panic stricken. I can not personally justify carrying a maglite or a stick or cattle prod no matter how many unfriendly dogs we've come across. It honestly stinks of all kinds of crazy to me and I really have to bow out of this ridiculous thread now. It's infuriating from both sides of the argument, you should not have your dogs ambling free off lead, there's not any real need, however if shit happens and my dog happened to say get out after a break in, or snap his collar or something else happen and some loony beat him or sprayed him I would be beyond furious and as much as you have a right to defend your own, so would I. And I would. Friendly off lead dogs don't bother me in the slightest, but it's law as the majority are troublesome or less than controlled, but from the other side of the fence you really need to assess the situation at hand before losing your mind and whipping out a cattle prod. Perhaps if you really are considering arming yourself because walks in your neighborhood are so traumatic for you, it might be best to think about a dog treadmill or an acreage or something. I really would be more concerned about some unauthorised person carrying a concealed weapon than a dog. Oh and I'll just leave this here too, from www.police.vic.gov.au So what do you suggest us crazies do if a loose dog is attacking our dogs? Imagine I'm walking my 12 year shih tzu and some bigger dog rushes at us and grabs him and shakes him. What is the non-crazy thing to do in your opinion? Yes do tell Steph, we are all ears. What would you do in that circumstance? A concealed telescopic baton (If I can get my hands on one)would be my choice of weapon. Ill happily pay the fine. And since I'm a'crazy' the fine should be a reduced one. ;) ;) Oh and BTW for 12 yrs I lived on a small acreage. I had to fence in a large house paddock for my dogs. Had packs of the neighbourhood's dogs wondering through it looking to attack stock,native animals and my Border collies. Unfortunately there's no escaping idiot dog owners. No escaping them, that appears to be true, mores the pity. Many years ago I had a farm behind my property, a neighbors dog got on to the farm and harrassed the sheep, the farmer followed the dog back to its house and shot it dead in its own back garden, and he got away with it too. Something to do with having farm stock attacked. We were all horrified that he followed the dog and shot it, but now I understand why he did it, now I have more experience of what dogs are capable of. That farmer knew the dog would be back now it had a taste for lambs. BTW the owners of the dog had been warned several times and the farmer had made sure those warnings went on record at the council. How has this got anything to do with a person who takes their dog for a walk and doesn't leash it every second of the walk?

It was my open golf umbrella that saved me and my dog when we got attacked, thank God it was raining that day or I wouldn't have had it with me, its the reason I didn't get bitten, the dogs bit the umbrella instead. I can imagine how scary it would be to navigate around off leash dogs with your dog not 100% fit. I've had a ball come past me out of nowhere and a Dobermann fly past after it in a suburban walkway. After a few more ball tosses I politely informed the owner that my rotator cuff muscles didn't need any further work out from my dogs lunging after the ball. No doubt I was 'hysterical'. Oh yes we mustn't be hysterical that would be awful. I hate becoming that woman in the park who objects to off leash dogs getting in my space but I'll keep objecting until the owners get a grip on their pets. I'm aware they love their dogs but I don't need to be knocked over by their darling and then get a cursory "Oh sorry he was only playing". I congratulate you on your crusade. Your problem is that you fail to understand that and off lead dog does not automatically result in an out of control dog. Every second post from you is you regaling us with a terrifying story where you have been rushed/attacked/mauled by and out if control dog. These dogs and owners have not been in control, have not been acting responsibly or with consideration. At no point have I said this behaviour is ok. It's getting to the point now where these things seem to be happening with such intensity and frequency to you, coupled with the fact that your experience is so extremely different to mine and many other dog owners I know, that I'm starting to think maybe you have some other contributing factors.

The uncontrollable hysteria in this thread is amazing. You need to take a deep breath, possibly a Prozac and a lay down. It's not world war three out there. This is not like walking across the Serengeti with a sirloin strapped to your back. Serious case of over reaction with a little bit of superiority complex thrown in and some double standards to finish things off. Pretty sure the police would be more concerned about the lady walking around with a cattle prod than they would the person who's dog isn't on a lead. As has been said above, if someone hit my dog with a cattle prod they would most likely find themselves on the receiving end of a very nasty shock.

You must have trouble with written comprehension. Why don't you go back over my post slowly and you might be able to figure out why I'm not one of those. It was a good attempt at insulting me.

It seems it is a bit of an idiotic status symbol like not tethering your dog in the back of a ute. Unfortunately it is always the dog that pays when things go wrong. If a dog walks perfectly off lead beside you then what is the harm in putting a lead on it. I suspect a lot of off leash dogs don't walk quite so nicely when they on lead and some people would rather (think they) look cool over than bothering with loose leash training. Loose dogs even if they are friendly pose a risk to motorists. I don't think some seem to get the fact that people get killed or suffer permanent, debilitating injuries from collisions caused by wandering dogs. Especially if you live in a suburban/highly populated area and unless you are in a designated off leash area just put your dog on a freaking leash. It is not that hard. And no you don't look cool walking beside a highway with your off leash dog you look like an idiot. Edited to add that I haven't had many dogs rush me or my dogs over the years but I have had far too many experiences of close calls on the road and witnessed dogs been hit and killed. I have been badly bitten trying to save a dog from being hit and have picked far too many dead dogs off the road. Someone tell me thats not the only reason they do it. Ok. That's not the reason I do it. Well what is the reason then, you must have one, I'm interested to know what it is. Is it the feeling of freedom? No, it's the relationship you build with your dog. Toby walks beside me not because I have him tied to me. He walks there because I ask him to and because he wants to. Like everything in life it's required a risk assessment. I am capable, responsible and rational enough to make that assessment and I accept the consequences of the decisions I make. What you need to come to terms with is that just because there is no lead doesn't mean there isn't control. A dog that gets out of its yard roaming the neighbourhood is not the same as a dog going for a stroll with its owner. What you need to come to terms with is that when there is no lead, there is a chance that control could be lost, for some unforeseen reason that will change your life forever. I know exactly what you mean. Last weekend, at my local cafe, a leaf blew past the table I was sitting at and Toby sat up quite quickly. I nearly lost control of him and he nearly tipped over my soy caramel decaf latte. Disaster!

I assume the other people I come into contact with are making their own risk assessments. When they see a dog who is quite clearly under control I expect them to continue on about their day and return my 'hello' as we pass.

My god!!! I highly recommend you purchase a cattle prod to zap the shit out of these wolves if the even so much as look at you.

It seems it is a bit of an idiotic status symbol like not tethering your dog in the back of a ute. Unfortunately it is always the dog that pays when things go wrong. If a dog walks perfectly off lead beside you then what is the harm in putting a lead on it. I suspect a lot of off leash dogs don't walk quite so nicely when they on lead and some people would rather (think they) look cool over than bothering with loose leash training. Loose dogs even if they are friendly pose a risk to motorists. I don't think some seem to get the fact that people get killed or suffer permanent, debilitating injuries from collisions caused by wandering dogs. Especially if you live in a suburban/highly populated area and unless you are in a designated off leash area just put your dog on a freaking leash. It is not that hard. And no you don't look cool walking beside a highway with your off leash dog you look like an idiot. Edited to add that I haven't had many dogs rush me or my dogs over the years but I have had far too many experiences of close calls on the road and witnessed dogs been hit and killed. I have been badly bitten trying to save a dog from being hit and have picked far too many dead dogs off the road. Someone tell me thats not the only reason they do it. Ok. That's not the reason I do it. Well what is the reason then, you must have one, I'm interested to know what it is. Is it the feeling of freedom? No, it's the relationship you build with your dog. Toby walks beside me not because I have him tied to me. He walks there because I ask him to and because he wants to. Like everything in life it's required a risk assessment. I am capable, responsible and rational enough to make that assessment and I accept the consequences of the decisions I make. What you need to come to terms with is that just because there is no lead doesn't mean there isn't control. A dog that gets out of its yard roaming the neighbourhood is not the same as a dog going for a stroll with its owner.

It seems it is a bit of an idiotic status symbol like not tethering your dog in the back of a ute. Unfortunately it is always the dog that pays when things go wrong. If a dog walks perfectly off lead beside you then what is the harm in putting a lead on it. I suspect a lot of off leash dogs don't walk quite so nicely when they on lead and some people would rather (think they) look cool over than bothering with loose leash training. Loose dogs even if they are friendly pose a risk to motorists. I don't think some seem to get the fact that people get killed or suffer permanent, debilitating injuries from collisions caused by wandering dogs. Especially if you live in a suburban/highly populated area and unless you are in a designated off leash area just put your dog on a freaking leash. It is not that hard. And no you don't look cool walking beside a highway with your off leash dog you look like an idiot. Edited to add that I haven't had many dogs rush me or my dogs over the years but I have had far too many experiences of close calls on the road and witnessed dogs been hit and killed. I have been badly bitten trying to save a dog from being hit and have picked far too many dead dogs off the road. Someone tell me thats not the only reason they do it. Ok. That's not the reason I do it.

Would be interesting to find out if people have more or less of a problem depending on where they live. Rural/urban/inner city or certain towns that have high concentrations if unruly dog behaviour.

I can vouch for the Moss Vale caravan park camped there a few years back with the dog. Pretty good setup and the people were very friendly!

I can't stand that! 'Oh he doesn't like puppies/undesexed dogs/females/males/old dogs/small dogs/big dogs' Fabulous, I'm glad you're aware of this! Well done you, gold star! Now how about taking some of this incredible, mind boggling insight and working with that? Or should we just all accept that you know about it....haha. That sounds a lot like those people that tell you there dog is "reactive" or "dog aggressive" and because they have given it a label it makes it perfectly acceptable.

Are you seriously comparing taking your dog for a walk without a lead to driving a 2tonne steel box at 110kmh whilst drunk?

Such a shame when it descends into name calling.

Your experience is similar to my own. I'm also amazed at how many people on a dog forum are so passionately advocating greater restrictions on dogs instead of better education, training and promoting responsible ownership. Sent from my iPhone while sipping my morning coffee at my local cafe with my dog asleep under the table.

I actually disagree. Unattended dogs can form packs and do things that each individual dog would never dream of doing on their own. They are not only a danger to motorists due to causing accidents and pedestrians due to attacking them or harassing their on lead dogs, but they are also a problem for livestock and pet owners because a pack of dogs will often go hunting together. All dogs need to be contained, even the friendly ones. A friendly dog will often kill just as many sheep, and just as fast as an unfriendly one. ETA: I am referring to dogs who are not under effective control, with or without an owner present basically. I made that statement as I can't say that 100% of off-lead dogs are always an accident waiting to happen. But in saying that I do believe having all dogs On-lead when not contained or under effective control can reduce accidents. Banning people from having dogs would eliminate the risks completely but not many people would find that solution satisfactory. It's all about where you draw the line. I'm in no way suggesting it should be some sort if free for all and I understand your point of view, you just draw the line a bit further than I would. Just by looking in the News section of this Forum, many of the dogs involved in those incidents were off-leash, ran out of an open gate/door, jumped a fence etc etc. basically not under control. We've got to start somewhere and I think keeping dogs under control at all times is a good start. Exactly. And it's my view that you don't need to tie a dog to you in order to keep it under control.

I completely agree with this. If you are walking your dog off lead and it's doing these things then you aren't being responsible for your dog. I feel sorry for people that have had such a negative experience with dogs that they view all off leads dogs as a threat. They aren't all a threat and walking a dog without a lead is a pretty normal and basic thing to do and can be done whilst being responsible and respectful.

I actually disagree. Unattended dogs can form packs and do things that each individual dog would never dream of doing on their own. They are not only a danger to motorists due to causing accidents and pedestrians due to attacking them or harassing their on lead dogs, but they are also a problem for livestock and pet owners because a pack of dogs will often go hunting together. All dogs need to be contained, even the friendly ones. A friendly dog will often kill just as many sheep, and just as fast as an unfriendly one. ETA: I am referring to dogs who are not under effective control, with or without an owner present basically. I made that statement as I can't say that 100% of off-lead dogs are always an accident waiting to happen. But in saying that I do believe having all dogs On-lead when not contained or under effective control can reduce accidents. Banning people from having dogs would eliminate the risks completely but not many people would find that solution satisfactory. It's all about where you draw the line. I'm in no way suggesting it should be some sort if free for all and I understand your point of view, you just draw the line a bit further than I would.

What a ridiculous idea. The simple act of having a dog off a lead does not automatically mean irresponsible ownership. Nor is every off lead dog a vicious beast that is running around the neighbourhood terrorising pensioners and eating small fluffy dogs. More legislation, laws and regulation are not the answer. There are plenty of options available already, the problem is they aren't enforced. People need to be personally responsible for their actions and the actions of their animals. Not every offlead dog is a danger. But I believe keeping all dogs on-lead when not in a secure yard or dog park will reduce a lot of "accidents". Roaming dogs can cause car accidents, roadkill and the obvious dog fights, attacks on people. I think the simple act or keeping a dog on leash or contained in a secure yard could have reduced a lot the recent "accidents" that have happened. Now, what are the "plenty of options" avaliable that you are talking about? and how do you think they can be enforced? How can we make people personally responsible for their actions and the actions of their animals? There are also plenty of dogs that are walked every day, all over the country, off lead without incident. Just because a few off lead dogs cause a problem you support restricting everyone instead if penalising the wrong doer? There are incidents of dogs being walked on lead biting people/dogs walking past. They sometimes also break free and cause road accident and get in fights. Should we ban everyone from walking their dogs on leads just because some dogs may break free and cause a problem? No that would be ridiculous.