RazorBlade

Just my opinion obviously, but, I've been very cautious of playing to much fetch with my kelpie. I've had dogs before and have friends with dogs that have become obsessed with playing fetch and it can be very annoying. One friends dog will do nothing but try and make you play fetch by dropping anything it can get hold of at your feet. A bloke I work with has a dog that follows everyone around site all day picking up random off cuts of timber and head butting you to try and start a game. It's one of those things that most people want their dog to do though and my son likes to throw things to the dog so what I have done is to make the retrieving of a ball/stick a job that has a reward at the end, rather than make the retrieve of the ball a reward in itself. That way I think there is less of a chance of it developing into a self rewarding obsessive behaviour. This might also help you as rather than trying to increase your dogs interest in the ball you are just trying to teach another "job" with a big reward at the end. Poorly articulated but it might be helpful.

I think you need to mind your own business. Different people have different standards when it comes to dogs. They might not align with your standards or the way we would all like to see dogs treated but that doesn't necessarily mean the dog is being abused or mistreated. If you continue on the way you are going then I suspect you are setting yourself up for much heart ache and technically your actions are in the wrong. I also live next to a family that, in my opinion, don't treat their dog the way it deserves. That doesn't mean it's within my rights to try and take the dog.

Following this thread with great interest.

That is untrue. Also, going out of your way to dig up an old discussion and taking a thread off topic in order to call me a menace dog owner IS a personal attack aimed at provoking and emotional response. Most people would call that trolling and as far as in aware it's pretty frowned upon these days.

Yes you are right there will always be those menace owners that think they are above the law and don't leash their dogs, if I remember rightly you're one of them. I have greyhounds, muzzled by law with skin like tissue paper. One nip that would prove as nothing to your average dog will result in stitches to a greyhound so no my dogs don't need interact with other dogs. Bam!! Straight into a personal attack. Well done! If you don't need your dogs to interact with other dogs then more power to you. I wasn't trying to tell you what to do with your dog. I was just saying, in my experience, what had worked for my situation. A personal attack?? Oh dear I could've just asked you if you were thick as you did in a previous thread about the same issues of offlead dogs. I am agreeing with you RazorBlade, people that don't leash their dogs in areas where it is required by law ARE a menace. Wow I feel like you are harbouring some angst. You should learn to let go of these things. It's bad for your blood pressure.

Yes you are right there will always be those menace owners that think they are above the law and don't leash their dogs, if I remember rightly you're one of them. I have greyhounds, muzzled by law with skin like tissue paper. One nip that would prove as nothing to your average dog will result in stitches to a greyhound so no my dogs don't need interact with other dogs. Bam!! Straight into a personal attack. Well done! If you don't need your dogs to interact with other dogs then more power to you. I wasn't trying to tell you what to do with your dog. I was just saying, in my experience, what had worked for my situation.

I never said that you should let your dog be attacked nor did I recommend throwing your dog into negative situations. What I was saying is that it's possible to use a less than ideal situation to train towards behaviours that you do find desirable. Glass half full type of thing. While there are bad experiences to be had at off lead parks there are also plenty of benefits.

I think some minor negative interactions, if monitored, provide invaluable lessons for young dogs. They need to be able to figure out how to interact with other dogs in a pack situation and in my experience you won't get this interaction at an obedience club. There are always going to be menace dogs and menace owners and while venting on the internet might, for some reason, make you feel better it is doing nothing to solve your problem. The sooner your dog develops the skills to identify and manage the problem dogs the better off you will both be. They won't developed these skills if they kept away from other dogs or their only other interactions with dogs are highly artificial.

Why as soon as someone mentions any sort of correction technique do people automatically make the leap to "bashing the dog with a piece of 4x2?"

I think this is a great idea. There are a few posters scattered around the park at Rozelle Bay. Such a simple way of asking for a bit of space for you and your dog. The more this is publicised the better.

I have a flop eared kelpie who's ears have never really looked like they would stay up 100% of the time. They were pretty flat when I got him as a puppy and I didn't ever try and tape them, I figured I would just have to be happy with what I got. They prick up when he is switched and flop the other 98% if the time.

Sorry where have I been rude?

And not once have you stated why you think your above the law even tho it has been repeated asked Listen, I've repeatedly answered what my motivations are and the way I go about doing the things I do in an effort to show that there is another side to the coin. Not everything is black and white. To the sanctimonious, holier that thou attitude, OMG it's a by-law brigade. Unless you have never in your life broken/ignore a rule, give up on the lecturing.

Ok I'll make a deal with you I won't repeat myself as you all know where I stand. Lets not forget I've been called crazy and it's even been alluded too that I've made everything up. I had a very traumatic event and because I live in a semi rural community there seems to be quite a few loose dogs. I'm not sure why we attract rushers, my dog is very well behaved on leash, perhaps that makes her weak and a target, can't really do much about that can I? Off leash she mixes very well with friends dogs and at the kennels, where she's described as easy going but doesn't submit readily to other dogs but is not aggressive. I readily admit I die a thousand deaths when I see an off leash dog and imagine all kinds of horrors that never happen. Being made to feel vulnerable makes me cranky, you may have noticed that bit. For the third time, It was me who made the crazy comment and it was in regard to feeling like you needed a weapon to walk your dogs safely, it was widely directed, not solely at you and I said THE ACTION of carrying this out stank of craziness. It seems to suit you to adopt the tag like a pouting child though, so carry on. I don't think anyone alluded you might have invented anything either. For goodness sake I don't care who called me crazy and who didn't. It was Razor who alluded to me having "contributory factors" and that all the dog incidences I report may be because of those factors. That's not a direct quote either, I can't be bothered looking for it. Now lets not get caught up in semantics of who said what to whom. I carry citronella spray only, which is harmless to dogs, not harmless because I say so, harmless because that is whats written on the can. I used to carry an umbrella but I got sick of having my hands full. I'm not looking to hurt anyone's dog despite the fact me and my dog were attacked. For the 100th time ( that may not be the true figure but I'm confident the post counters will be able to tell me what number it is ) I just want a relaxing walk with my dog without being harassed by off leash dogs of any type. Stop taking what I say personally it isn't aimed at you. Like it or not your actions and your reactions directly contribute to your experiences and the actions/reactions of your dog.

Come on now, no need to back away from it now. Take my comments in their most literal terms, however I am willing to state I do find you an arrogant person, that can be directly associated with the stereotypes myself and others have mention for your sheer disregard for the law and the community you live in. One of those other anuses I have state will see you and your disregard to the law and ask themselves why can't they do the same. It is not up to your judgement when and where the law should be obeyed or enforced nor to give yourself or anybody else the privileged that the law does not apply to you. It does not matter You think your dog is good. It does not matter if your dog IS good. It does not even directly have to do with the behavior you or your dog has in public, What if a bunch of self righteous complainers see you and your dog and report you repeatedly to the council who then impose the law of no dogs in business districts causing your cafe to enforce a regulation of no dogs with a distance of a human consumption premises. And it was all done cause they got a few sly pics of your dog loose and the council had enough of the complaints which would have been unwarranted if you had just clipped a loose lead to his collar.?? You seriously think the haters care if your dog has a lead or doesn't have a lead on as it sits under the table at your local cafe? Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to? (True story) Yes Razor dog haters do care if your dog is leashed especially in a cafe, as well as the insurance company of the cafe owner if anything goes wrong. Some people do not like dogs of any type and do not like them being in the front of cafes. Not everyone owns a dog and there are people who would like all dog laws to be very tight indeed. In that cafe you are one incident away from helping them ban all dogs from cafe fronts. If one of those fluffy dogs bites your dog and he reacts guess who will be blamed, the person with the unleashed dog. It's common sense really. In all your waffling on you seem to have forgotten to answer the question. Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to?

Come on now, no need to back away from it now. Take my comments in their most literal terms, however I am willing to state I do find you an arrogant person, that can be directly associated with the stereotypes myself and others have mention for your sheer disregard for the law and the community you live in. One of those other anuses I have state will see you and your disregard to the law and ask themselves why can't they do the same. It is not up to your judgement when and where the law should be obeyed or enforced nor to give yourself or anybody else the privileged that the law does not apply to you. It does not matter You think your dog is good. It does not matter if your dog IS good. It does not even directly have to do with the behavior you or your dog has in public, What if a bunch of self righteous complainers see you and your dog and report you repeatedly to the council who then impose the law of no dogs in business districts causing your cafe to enforce a regulation of no dogs with a distance of a human consumption premises. And it was all done cause they got a few sly pics of your dog loose and the council had enough of the complaints which would have been unwarranted if you had just clipped a loose lead to his collar.?? You seriously think the haters care if your dog has a lead or doesn't have a lead on as it sits under the table at your local cafe? Who is more of a menace, my dog who sleeps on my foot as I eat my omelet or the two white fluffies on lead, off their heads, barking and trying to tip over the table they are tied to? (True story)

Come on now, no need to back away from it now.

We've gone bloody wrong when the vocal minority scream blue murder to have EVERYONE and their darned dogs legislated against to the point that it's freaking impossible to take them out to socialise properly... FFS, can't anyone SEE that? No - let's just stamp our feet up and down and legislate to the lowest common denominator and royally fark it up for EVRYONE... that'll fix it, right? T. I haven't been to an off leash park (only a beach for small dogs and not many of them) can't dogs socialize there, or is that not what you mean? Just go and look into a designated off-leash park Trudy08... and tell me if you'd like to let your dog run there with all of the others to "socialise" with... The problem with most off-leash parks is that they are few and far between, and likely to be highly populated with dogs who aren't ever allowed out anywhere else... and thusly generally running amok like loons... Yeah - I'd love to take my pup there for some socialisation... NOT! That said - there are a few off-leash parks where there is a reasonably high proportion of genuinely decent owners with well socialised and friendly dogs... but it's a hike to find one like that at a time that fits in around working for a living. Quite frankly, I just keep my dogs at home - more because they are large dogs, 2 of which are bull breed crosses - and hysterical people like yourself make taking my dogs out for a walk a very unpleasant experience... even though they are on lead and very social dogs. T. I don't have breedism...........it's off lead large dogs that scare me. Well it's true Razor I don't care what the breed is, just that it's on the large size and it's off leash. Yeah breeds would be much to specific. You like a much broader sweeping generalisation. That way you can point the finger at even more evil, degenerate, law breakers out for a walk with their dogs. Small dogs are ok are they? Breaking the law is not ok period. It's this idiotic behavior (ignoring the law) which has caused the stupid restrictions and stupid breed laws. Because some Anus thinks that the law does not apply to them. They can't police every Idiot so make a broad spectrum law. So thank you for being the type of person who has made owning a dog more difficult in this country. You openly disobey the law and can be put is the same basket as every other bast*rd that does. Which law is irrelevant. You need to stop calling me nasty names, it's hurting my feelings.

We've gone bloody wrong when the vocal minority scream blue murder to have EVERYONE and their darned dogs legislated against to the point that it's freaking impossible to take them out to socialise properly... FFS, can't anyone SEE that? No - let's just stamp our feet up and down and legislate to the lowest common denominator and royally fark it up for EVRYONE... that'll fix it, right? T. I haven't been to an off leash park (only a beach for small dogs and not many of them) can't dogs socialize there, or is that not what you mean? Just go and look into a designated off-leash park Trudy08... and tell me if you'd like to let your dog run there with all of the others to "socialise" with... The problem with most off-leash parks is that they are few and far between, and likely to be highly populated with dogs who aren't ever allowed out anywhere else... and thusly generally running amok like loons... Yeah - I'd love to take my pup there for some socialisation... NOT! That said - there are a few off-leash parks where there is a reasonably high proportion of genuinely decent owners with well socialised and friendly dogs... but it's a hike to find one like that at a time that fits in around working for a living. Quite frankly, I just keep my dogs at home - more because they are large dogs, 2 of which are bull breed crosses - and hysterical people like yourself make taking my dogs out for a walk a very unpleasant experience... even though they are on lead and very social dogs. T. I don't have breedism...........it's off lead large dogs that scare me. Well it's true Razor I don't care what the breed is, just that it's on the large size and it's off leash. Yeah breeds would be much to specific. You like a much broader sweeping generalisation. That way you can point the finger at even more evil, degenerate, law breakers out for a walk with their dogs. Small dogs are ok are they?

We've gone bloody wrong when the vocal minority scream blue murder to have EVERYONE and their darned dogs legislated against to the point that it's freaking impossible to take them out to socialise properly... FFS, can't anyone SEE that? No - let's just stamp our feet up and down and legislate to the lowest common denominator and royally fark it up for EVRYONE... that'll fix it, right? T. I haven't been to an off leash park (only a beach for small dogs and not many of them) can't dogs socialize there, or is that not what you mean? Just go and look into a designated off-leash park Trudy08... and tell me if you'd like to let your dog run there with all of the others to "socialise" with... The problem with most off-leash parks is that they are few and far between, and likely to be highly populated with dogs who aren't ever allowed out anywhere else... and thusly generally running amok like loons... Yeah - I'd love to take my pup there for some socialisation... NOT! That said - there are a few off-leash parks where there is a reasonably high proportion of genuinely decent owners with well socialised and friendly dogs... but it's a hike to find one like that at a time that fits in around working for a living. Quite frankly, I just keep my dogs at home - more because they are large dogs, 2 of which are bull breed crosses - and hysterical people like yourself make taking my dogs out for a walk a very unpleasant experience... even though they are on lead and very social dogs. T. I don't have breedism...........it's off lead large dogs that scare me.

Ummmm....... No. So even though your actions could lead to dogs being banned altogether because of owners breaking the law you don't care? It's not just rushing at other dogs, it's the whole I'll do what i want attitude that affects us all. That's a gross over exaggeration.

Quoted because its brilliant and I couldn't agree more.

You are starting to sound and behave like a troll. You are publicly stating you break the law and in fact you don't care about doing this. I hope you get caught and fined. What I also know is that no matter what you say here, I know you don't give a crap about your dog because, guess what, your dog will pay the price if anything goes wrong. If someone has a different opinion to you and they voice that opinion then that automatically makes them a troll? Accuses someone of being a troll and the goes on to make a statement that is deliberately inflammatory in an attempt to illicit an emotional response. Well done, I'm actually impressed my your level of double standard.

Because my dog is with me 24hours a days 7 days a week and I can't always be in an off lead area. My dog won't come anywhere near your dog.

Ummmm....... No.