Diana R

There is a large puppy farm in the Western suburbs who breed JS and will fly the pups just about anywhere - they are called Chevromist Kennels. They don't have a particularly good reputation (quite the opposite actually) so I would advise AGAINST going back for another pup, but I'd say it's a strong possibility that your pup came from there given what you know about the history.

Oh gosh I hope so Angelsun! There's some good evidence now that giving pets as gifts (responsibly, and while ensuring a good match between pet and owner) is actually a good thing and doesn't result in higher relinquishments Here's a post about the ASPCA reseach on the topic http://www.aspcapro.org/resource/saving-lives-research-data/pets-gifts

This is a topic that I've come across a few times, and a friend shared this article with me that I thought might be interesting http://www.12many.com/duchwood/piebaldhistory.html

Pauleen and the Anthrozoology Research Group crew videotaped the lecture - fingers crossed that it turns out well so they can pop it up to share. I'll pop the link up here if and when that happens. Peter has a new book out too, but it's not been released in Australia yet :)

Popping this up here in case anyone is interested and wants to come along. The session is open to the public and RSVP is just for catering, so please come along even if you haven't replied to the email below. The venue is the La Trobe Visual Arts Center at 121 View St, Bendigo (VIC). Thursday 29 October, 6pm La Trobe University Public seminar: Selective breeding of dogs: can we stay good while playing God? The presenter of this seminar, Peter Sandoe, has been a Professor of Bioethics at the University of Copenhagen since 1997. Presently his chair is divided between the Department of Large Animal Sciences and the Department of Food and Resource Economics. He is trained in philosophy, but more recently his research has focused on bioethics, in particular on ethical issues related to animals, biotechnology and food production. Refreshments served Register at: [email protected] Cost: Free

I think the problem is less about the IMO unlikley scenario of an obese dog being the only good example of the breed in the ring, and more about the fact that owners of fat dogs are consistently rewarded, and the condition of the dogs is defended in some circles. I can't imagine any class at Crufts where the other dogs in the ring are such poor specimens that they don't compare against a dog that's in poor condition (although I admit I'm not really a Crufts watcher, so perhaps their standard is lower than I thought)

Yep definitely but unless its enforced only the good guys will do it. Then again even if it is enforced there will still be lots that dont do it. This^ and tweaking our chip databases so that breeding and ownership histories are stored in the dog's file and can be traced, so that both owners and breeders can be held accountable for the outcomes of the dogs that they are involved with. If you look at companion animal welfare and management models worldwide, the ones based on outcomes (rather than prohibitive regs that try and dictate conditions) are the most effective, but it needs to be coupled with accountability. Some countries achieve that by mandating public liability and health insurance (so that insurance companies come knocking if a breeder is consistently putting out unhealthy or temperamentally unsound pups, or an owner is consistently managing their dogs in ways that result in high levels of risk to the dog or someone else), and some do it through legislation (so an owner get nailed if their dog attacks, or a breeder gets nailed if they sell unhealthy puppies). The consistent components of these systems are that everyone who has been responsible for that dog is traceable and accountable, and rules are based on the outcomes, not on some preconceived ideas about what makes a 'good' or 'bad' breeder. In the case of the 300 bitch strong puppy farm pumping out pet puppies that no person in their right mind would condone, you put outcome-based welfare assessments in place and enforce them - for example, the breeding dogs MUST be physically healthy (and you can define that somewhat objectively and much better than we currently have in POCTA, but that would be the place to start), and have personable temperaments that reflect what a good pet dog should be (not easy to do ATM, but even something like some standards that the dogs must meet during vet checks and a simple amicability test would be a starting place), and the puppies produced must be healthy (vacc'd, chipped, free from communicable diseases and any inherited diseases that are known about and able to be screened for etc.) and be temperamentally suited to the role they will be fulfilling. IMO, make the hurdles reflective of the purpose that the dogs are produced for, and leave it to the breeders to determine how best to meet those goals for the dogs they have, the owners they sell to and the situation they are in.

Scent Dogs Australia are located in Melbourne and run workshops across Victoria http://www.scentdogsaustralia.com/

That's what I'd say too Powerlegs. A big part of CF is your perspective changing so that you feel engulfed by the situation and unable to effect change, and one part of that is feeling like you have to help every animal in need. I don't know the researchers, but CF in animal welfare and rescue people is a passion of mine (coz you are pretty special people!) so I'm keen to see this do well :)

Just another thought on why she's so keen on the lounge while you are gone - it probably smells a lot like you and hubby, so besides being warm, high up and comfortable, it smells like you so she's got some comfort while you are gone. FWIW - I'd hold off on trying to discourage her from getting up on the lounge until you've organised an alternative that's really suitable for her, so that you can provide both at once and give it the best chance of working. Maybe something like the kid's foam sofa as suggested above, covered in a minky blanket that's been on your bed (or on the couch) for a few days? IF you can grab some DAP spray, hit the blanket with that as well, put the bed somewhere super comfy (near a heater?) and then go nuts with covering the couch (plastic tarp, baby gate, etc.) so that she's got a really nice option and a very average one.

As above my first thought was capture too, but to add on to the 'break it down' advice already given, the steps I normally use are something like (all steps start with 'keep bum on floor)) - look at floor in front of feet - look with tucked chin (sometimes this is first) - stretch neck down (no give in elbows) - stretch neck down (with give in elbows) - stretch and touch floor with nose - follow treat forward until slight give in wrists - follow treat forward to a drop (with hand rotation) The trick to getting the last two steps consistently with dogs that pop their bums up, is to rotate the treat under your hand so that the dog has to keep their chin on the floor to be able to lick it. Hard to explain rather than show, but if you are holding the treat with your index and middle fingers against your thumb (with your fingers straight), as you start to draw it forward, rotate the treat down (so palm is facing the ground) and use the thumb side of your index finger and hand to hang over the top of treat and prevent the dog from licking it from above. Usually I don't keep drawing them forward at this stage, I just wait them out until they drop as they are already bent through the elbows and it's hard for them to hold that position for long. Hope this makes sense!!

As both myself and Tiffani have said above, please feel free to contact the researchers directly and tell them how you feel, Maddy. I'm not sure why you feel that I'm being condescending as that's not my intention at all, but that's the limitations of online communication with people you don't know in person I suppose.

You know what happens when one assumes? It's a bit rich to say those of us involved in greyhounds don't care and as far as saying put your money where your mouth is, well that's just insulting. You know a lot about the industry do you corvus or just what you read on social media and watch on 4Corners? As others have said this will just be another platform for the wackos and the nutjobs to spew their uninformed opinions, they will be told how to answer the questions. Just reading through it for example the question that asks if greyhounds should be socialised with other breeds while racing. Now that will be an overwhelming yes by the people who have NFI, the people that think a trainer should have an elite athlete romping around a dog park making friends. Do you have any idea what damage can be done? Maybe WreckitWhippet can post a photo of the damage done to her greyhound that ended it's racing career. I have given blood, sweat and tears to greyhound rescue so don't dare tell me that because I can't be bothered filling out a pointless survey that I don't care. You have no idea...it really is just as simple as that. At risk of getting involved in what appears to be a pre-existing relationship, I think you might have misunderstood what Corvus meant about you caring and assuming - she 'assumed' that you DO care about the industry and that is why you spent so long thinking about it. We're much more familiar and comfortable with research than your average member of the public (I don't mean that in a bad way, but both Corvus and I are scientists who work with dogs so it's what we do), so sometimes it's hard for us to understand the reluctance of some people to use their voice in a situation like this where one well-worded answer could raise a point that the researchers hadn't considered and change the direction of their research. Like I said above, of course the researchers are going to identify trends, but the focus of the work that will come out of this survey isn't decided by popular vote (or even only by the results of this survey as there's lots of other things being considered) - this is purely about gathering info, so the researchers aren't going in with an idea of what the results 'should' be, as it's not that type of work. All they want is lots of info, from lots of different people, with varying amounts of direct or indirect involvement with greyhound racing - nothing sinister :) If that is the case, I'd expect questions that had actually been researched (to ensure the answers they got were actually useful). I'll give you an example here.. Is this question asking what percentage of dogs should be assessed for suitability for rehoming? Or which percentage of assessed dogs should be rehomed? Or even which percentage of assessed dogs would we like to see being assessed as rehomable? I assumed the first question was what was meant. Someone else might assume the second or even third and answer with that interpretation in mind. When you ask questions that suggest a lack of insight into how rehoming works, you're going to end up with unusable answers. But by all means, continue to assume us simple plebs don't understand how research works :) I'm not part of the research group, so I'm making an educated guess on why questions were worded they way they were. My guess is that the question is actually trying to gauge what degree of 'wastage' people feel is acceptable. Obviously the more you know about the industry, the nature of the dogs and rehoming process, the more realistic you will be about the actual number of dogs that don't go on to become pets after racing, and the more able you are to justify your answer and ask questions like the ones you have - that will change how you feel about the situation and what number you feel comfortable writing. Others may automatically write 100%, or 90% or 10% (and those numbers may or may not correlate with how much knowledge people demonstrate in other questions that were asked). The question isn't aimed at giving you an opportunity to demonstrate your knowledge of the industry, or even at finding out how the rehoming process works and why there is wastage, as such, how 'useable' the answers are completely depends on what info the researchers are trying to get from them. If you want to know more though, I'd suggest you contact the researchers directly - Tiffani has given her email above :)

You know what happens when one assumes? It's a bit rich to say those of us involved in greyhounds don't care and as far as saying put your money where your mouth is, well that's just insulting. You know a lot about the industry do you corvus or just what you read on social media and watch on 4Corners? As others have said this will just be another platform for the wackos and the nutjobs to spew their uninformed opinions, they will be told how to answer the questions. Just reading through it for example the question that asks if greyhounds should be socialised with other breeds while racing. Now that will be an overwhelming yes by the people who have NFI, the people that think a trainer should have an elite athlete romping around a dog park making friends. Do you have any idea what damage can be done? Maybe WreckitWhippet can post a photo of the damage done to her greyhound that ended it's racing career. I have given blood, sweat and tears to greyhound rescue so don't dare tell me that because I can't be bothered filling out a pointless survey that I don't care. You have no idea...it really is just as simple as that. At risk of getting involved in what appears to be a pre-existing relationship, I think you might have misunderstood what Corvus meant about you caring and assuming - she 'assumed' that you DO care about the industry and that is why you spent so long thinking about it. We're much more familiar and comfortable with research than your average member of the public (I don't mean that in a bad way, but both Corvus and I are scientists who work with dogs so it's what we do), so sometimes it's hard for us to understand the reluctance of some people to use their voice in a situation like this where one well-worded answer could raise a point that the researchers hadn't considered and change the direction of their research. Like I said above, of course the researchers are going to identify trends, but the focus of the work that will come out of this survey isn't decided by popular vote (or even only by the results of this survey as there's lots of other things being considered) - this is purely about gathering info, so the researchers aren't going in with an idea of what the results 'should' be, as it's not that type of work. All they want is lots of info, from lots of different people, with varying amounts of direct or indirect involvement with greyhound racing - nothing sinister :)

Guys relax :) The people working on this project come from really varied backgrounds (I know, because I work directly with some of them here in Victoria) and the results aren't decided by vote count. The whole idea of a survey like this is to find out what different people, who come from different backgrounds, know, understand and think about the topic, and to identify areas that would benefit from further investigations and those that we probably don't need to devote resources to at this point in time. The researchers WANT people from many different backgrounds to fill out the survey - that's why they are trying to spread it far and wide and have encouraged people from within the industry and even people from OS greyhound groups (both for and against grey racing) to participate. No one person is going to decide what areas get attention and how the research proceeds and the group working on this project is made up of people from varied backgrounds; people from the greyhound industry, the Working Dog Alliance, The Anthrozoology Research Group and from academia (both welfare and anthrozoology based) are all involved - and the survey isn't a stand alone piece of research, it's part of the information gathering step of designing good research that will hopefully contribute to the industry (which might include helping them to educate the public on what actually happens). If you are involved with greys, I encourage you to get as many people, from as many different backgrounds as you can to participate. IF you want to ask questions directly to the main people at the head of this research, I suggest you head over to the ARG Facebook page and ask there as that is where you have the best chance of getting an answer directly from the researchers themselves. Hope this helps to allay some people's concerns!

I'm sharing this here in case anybody wants to participate - it's great to see some local research being done in the area of compassion fatigue in welfare workers and volunteers. It's a hugely important area that we really don't know nearly enough about. The quality of the info they get is highly dependent on having lots of participants, so please get involved and share the link as much as you can. https://animalsinsocietygroup.wordpress.com/participate-in-research-projects/

I don't think raising concerns that good owners maybe are being routinely overlooked and turned off getting their animal through rescue is rescue bashing at all (obviously done respectfully as you have here). People can't address a problem if they don't know about it - how each person or org chooses to use that info is up to them, but the info itself isn't a problem :) I know that the default answer in these discussions is 'it's the rescue's dog and they can do what they want with it', and that's true, but it's also true that the right conversation with a potential adopter can help put them on the path to being an owner who sources the right dog, from a place that will take into account how well the dog and owner match, which gives them an excellent chance of being a life-long owner of their new pet, and that means less work for rescues in the future. It's not always going to work out that way, but the times it's does work have a lasting and snowballing effect, so it's worth the disappointment IMO.

I don't comment on DOL much, and I can COMPLETELY understand the perspective of many rescues because I've been there, but in a shelter role rather than a rescue role. That said, from my perspective now (as a researcher who works in companion animal welfare and behaviour) there's a few things that get left out of these conversations. We don't have a huge amount of research in the areas of placement success and relinquishment, but the research we do have consistently gives a few messages. - The bond that people have, or don't have, with their pets is the single most important factor in a pet keeping their home. When you look at populations of owned dogs, bonded owners who have the means to do so, work through all means of behavioural, situational and financial problems to keep their pets. - That bond is built largely on a match between owner expectations and the reality of living with the particular dog/cat/pocket pet that they have acquired, and very importantly, the foundations of the bond are laid in the first 2-3 weeks - if you can get owners through the 'bumps' during that time and they are still committed to their pet afterwards, there's an excellent chance that the pet has a home for life. - When we look at why relinquishers give up their pets, we find that in the absence of severely limiting factors (divorce, escaping an abusive partner, live-changing injuries or illness etc.), there's usually been a long history of a partially broken bond between owner and pet, and a series of issues (behaviour of pet, animal needs care that the owner can't afford, pet needs more X than owner can or feels able to give) that haven't been resolved. Often effective support and some education (to help lessen the gap between expectations and reality) can prevent relinquishment AND result in a better owner-pet bond afterwards. - Most importantly, people seek help from sources they perceive as trustworthy AND approachable. What all that means for adoption placements is that putting bare basics aside (i.e. is the owner able to safely house the dog OR willing to make changes so that they can), conversations with potentil adopters need to focus on what THEY expect from their new pet and how well the animal in question meets those expectations. There are absolutely cases where people have unrealistic expectations of how the adoption process should proceed and how a pet will fit in with their lives, but the best way to address that issue (so that any pet they get has a good chance of staying in their home) is to have an open, honest conversation with them about it. The focus shouldn't be on whether an owner meets the expectations of the welfare org/rescue, but rather about who the pet is and who the potential home is. The beauty of an open, conversational approach (as a few people have demonstrated already here) is that it puts the rescue/welfare person in the position of trustworthy adviser, and that means they will be an early port of call in the event that things go wrong (amd even when they go fabulously) in the future.

Excellent news! :)

Is there a Facebook post we can share Kirislin? I can pop it up on the LTU student discussion group and get a bunch of eyes on the ground that might help.

That's a pretty typical list from a newby, non experienced person who wants a pet but not a hobby IME - with the right dog, people usually flex a bit, but basically they want a calm, happy little dog that's somewhat risk averse (so doesn't stray far and is happy to just fit in) and not easily pushed to aggression. I have several family members that went looking for exactly that and got it - and the dogs live like little kings and queens as a result. If they are prepared to pay for super regular clipping, a wool coated breed clipped short would probably be the best option. They might luck out with a lagotto that's on the quiet to timid side for the breed, and there's probably a few other breeds that they could look at if they could find the right individual, but their best bet is probably to keep an eye out in rescue for a little dog (that will probably need a haircut to show it's potential) that is happy to chill on the couch and just hang with them - they exist though (I call them floopsy dogs coz they aren't my cup of tea ;) )

I tend to think of stubbornness as a bit of a mix of traits (and TBH don't think of it much as a trait of dogs). Dogs that aren't biddable (or socially motivated), but who are risk averse and therefore less likely to ignore corrections, would generally not be classified as stubborn by most people (IME anyway). Nor would a dog that's not biddable, is not risk averse (so couldn't care less if it was punished), but was easily motivated in other ways (the 'what's in it for me' dogs) because we've still got avenues to control their behaviour. I think persistence is a component of being stubborn, but I don't see persistence on it's own as a problematic behaviour, and the same goes for a degree of independent thinking. When I think of stubborn behaviour, I tend to think of people who know and maybe even acknowledge that the position they are holding is untenable, but flatly refuse to change it for some reason, even in the face of lots of positive motivation and even risk to themselves. I tend to think of it as a bit of a human trait TBH, because to me it requires some form of acknowledgement or understanding on the behalf of the stubborn person that they understand the situation and flatly refuse to change it anyway, and dogs can't do that, so I suppose I always just give them the benefit of the doubt.

Just bumping this up in the hope that someone who is interested might see it!

Hi everyone, I know this is a bit of an odd place to recruit for a cat study, but we are having a bit of trouble finding participants and I'm hoping that there might be some DOLers in the area that own cats as well as dogs. The Anthrozoology Research Group is looking for people to participate in a cat focus group discussion, all about what makes cats great pets and what cat owners do with their cats. We are hoping to run the session next Friday 5th June, at the Bendigo campus of La Trobe University - time hasn't been decided yet as we're waiting to see when people are available (but will probably be during the day). The focus groups are part of a development process for a cat-owner relationship scale, just like the Monash Dog-Owner Relationship Scale that was developed by ARG. Basically we want to be able to show others why cats are great (on a large scale) and are looking for cat owners and people who work with cats, who would be willing to chat to us about it. I've attached the recruitment info for you to have a look at. For a copy of the Participant Information Statement or if you have any questions or would like to come along, please email me at [email protected] Thanks!! Revised Advert.docx

I understand that you are talking about the Acts themselves, but in the case of the DAA (which the council is using), the Code is recognised as part of that legislation. The link you provided doesn't give a minimum or max for individuals, so it doesn't really explain why he was only fined $5000 (and costs?). I agree that the language used by council when they explained their reasoning for only retaining the unreg DAB charge brought POCTA to mind, but I think it's just a case of poor phrasing on their behalf (unless the AMO involved was an AO under POCTA, in which case they may have considered actual cruelty charges).