cruzzi

It's only "silly" if you think a breed's country of origin should lose the ability to control what the breed standard is. No, it's silly because the KC made the amendments without consultation with the SBT clubs & despite their protests. Among others, they added "desirable" to the height & now dogs bloody near as big as AST's are being titled here. That's why it's silly. But of course it doesn't matter to anyone who has no affiliation or affection for the breed. And isn't affected by BSL. Silly to think you would give a damn anyhow, now that was really silly.

Speaking of comprehension, maybe you should reread the o.p. The bit about how he/she would like to breed as a hobby seems pretty straight forward. But more especially how he/she would like to hear people thoughts on it is interesting. Now, if there was a rider only positive opinions allowed I would be out of line. As it is, i'm right on the money. Live with it.

Yeah, I do feel a little dissapointed in the way I've been treated by cruzzi BUT its totally offset by all the fantastic INFORMATIVE responses! Just one amongst many I guess... Cruzzi are you not interested in telling us about yourself? Don't suppose you would be so kind to share your prefix? Is like to know more about these impeccable quality dogs you must have. I for one do not like to make assumptions about anyone. You never know who someone associates with, where their from, how much money they have etc... You have been treated just like any other anonymous blowin who "wants to be a breeder" A group of us were approached at a show by someone with similar asperations as your self. Didn't exhibit, didn't care to exhibit, just wanted to breed. He had his dogs registrations papers. One the most respected & successful breeders in the country examined the pedigree & advised him to have the dog desexed. Honesty isn't always kind. Why don't you show us your dogs breeding & I'll give you an honest opinion based on that. Who knows, I might just have the right puppy for you. But hey, seeing you haven't denied it I'm still backing it's a blue. Which would mean I wont have. But whether it is or not, blues are conspicuous by their absence eveywhere except the classifieds. If it is, have it desexed, do some research, buy a well bred dog, join your state body, spend some time showing & learning, make some contacts within the breed, not just Dr Feelgoods on internet sites. After you have done some hard yards & actually know something, select an ethical breeder & see if they will sell you a dog. If you're lucky, stay in contact & pick their brain. Within a couple of years you might just ready to breed & make a worthwhile contribution to the breed. Email me in two or three years & let me know how you are going & what you have achieved.

This thread was about a motion to ban ALL docked dogs (lawfully and otherwise) from ALL ANKC events. Any owner of a dog with a tail could have been effected. So why limit the discussion to those who own formerly docked breeds? The motion is dead. It has been voted down by every State outside Victoria that has voted. And quite a few of those who influenced that vote don't own docked breeds. Blaming those outside the docked breeds for the laws passed in this country is neither accurate nor fair. And as for NZ? What laws have they had reversed?? It isn't only what has been reversed in NZ that is good, it is what has not been amemeded. Such as the SBT standard. As far as i'm aware only the silly ANKC followed the K.C's 1987 amendments that will end up destroying the breed as we know it. Some of the dogs being titled here now don't meet the standard in most countries. http://www.cdb.org/countries/nzealand.htm

okay then don't breed. Hallelujah sister. Ethical responsible breeders would try to discourage a raw novice from breeding. But not here. Here they'd rather encourage them. Breeder straight up?....exhibitor? .....why exhibitor, I want to breed, not learn anything first & then maybe breed? Strange days indeed momma, most peculiar. Sad actually.

Ironic, considering the huge assumptions you made of the OP. And you came out looking like the ass. I came out smelling like a rose. No regrets.

I clearly know more than you about an ANKC sport that involves finding quail. :) And I'm hardly unaware of the problems faced by ethical breeders confronted by a sea of profit breeding of their breed of choice due to fashion and demand. It's hardly a new issue. But you don't get it do you? An innocent question asking about how people got started as breeders deserves better than a bunch of bile from someone who could offer a valuable persepective if they chose to. You want a new generation of responsible SBT breeders? How about you do something about to encourage someone to get started the right way? Or butt out and let others do what you seem incapable of - saying somethign constructive about anything. I choose not to encourage people when I am suspicious of their motives. I say what I think, if you don't like it?...care factor zero. I do encourage & mentor new SBT owners after I have met them face to face. I explain everything I know about the breed. I especially elaborate the bit about how they can get dog aggressive as they mature. They get the full spiel, warts & all. I receive many inquries by word of mouth recommendations. Most just want a family pet & the pleasing communications I receive gushing what a wonderful choice they made despite some initial reservations from the false information & horror stories about the breed. Guess which breeders are the source? The kind you think ethical responsible breeders should encourage sight unseen> Right now I have a staffy "novice'' who has taken the step & hit the show ring. we correspond regularly & she has learned how to show by correspondence. She is bloody good at now & all. Despite some success in the ring. A first in class at the breed speciality wasn't too shabby.. It's the breed that has captured her heart & she is now seriously contemplating taking the next step. Breeding is not an instant thing, breeding is a learning curve & the desire to produce the best damn dog the world has ever seen. She is the best owner I have ever had the pleasure of selling a puppy & I wish her every success. & you know what? I will be informed of every step, the good times & the disappointments. There should be more of it. When you assume.....you make an ass out of u....not me.

My first comment would have been my last except for the sarcastic reply. It snowballed from there. I have no intention in encouraging anyone I consider to be looking to make a quick buck by exploiting pure breeds. Especially SBT's.

I agree with your comments regarding NZ. Certainly more sensible approach than us. I can't recall ever seeing a cropped exhibit being show in Australia. Eligibility to comment. I owned & exhibited Rottweilers for over 15 years.

So every ethical breeder out there has no clue about the damage done by a small few . Maybe if you took the broomstick out of your butt you may realize your breed is no more special & that breeders outside of your breed are well aware of what is going on & support like minded ethical breeders in any breed Its people like yourself that give the good breeders a bad rep buy being such an arrogant person You want to talk about yesterday, find someone who remembers poodles ever being anything other than a handbag with crook knees. Poodles? Whippets? gee...there really is a flourishing BYB market in those two. These comments alone show your lack of knowledge outside your little world which is very sad Ready to put on the flame suit Why would you need a flame suit? Is a flame suit the dress of choice for those who talk the talk but don't walk the walk? The "damage is being done" by more than a small few (sic). I am passionate about purebreed dogs in general & SBT's in particular. In "my world" SBT's really are special, the most special special of the special in fact. Do you have a problem with that? I would have thought everyone considered their preferred breed to be the most special. Silly me. So toy poodles weren't reknown for luxating patellas & there is a thriving market for byb whippets? Gee, who'd a thunk it. Then again, maybe I'm just a realist who does actually know what they are talking about? Unlike some.

"Staffy"s the universal term of affection for the breed. I use it all the time. Because I luv 'em. And it pisses off the the poseurs. & I love that.

The advantage of having nikons is they don't changed their lens mounts. I can use the lens' from my F801S & F90x on my 70D. Your first shot is not bad.The eye is sharp, that's good The others are a little soft. But that could be the settings rather than the lens' edit. 50 mm is supposed to be the closest a camera reproduces as to what the eye sees. If that makes sense. Anyhow I know what I mean.

Oh that's right - because NO ONE EVER used poodles to produce popular pups. I have more than one breed Dougie. Someone asks people to talk about how they became a breeder. You leap to the offensive based on what again? Its clear you have nothing constructive to add. How about you take Bex and have a nice lie down while people actually talk about how they decided to breed dogs. Based on what? Based on I know what. That's what. You want to talk about yesterday, find someone who remembers poodles ever being anything other than a handbag with crook knees. Poodles? Whippets? gee...there really is a flourishing BYB market in those two. This is today. You tell me how much know, or care, about the Staffords reputation being trashed by unscrupulous "breeders" surfing the popularity of this wonderful little dog by pumping out crappy quality blues for the uninformed & charging the earth for them. Tell how much you know about said uninformed then thinking how much they can make from blue puppies also & magnifying the problem? Check the SBT puppy notices here & see how many blues litters on offer from people nobody hasever heard of. Tell me about how much you know about byb's pumping out any old any old crap & calling them Staffordshire Bull Terriers. tell me how many ethical responsible breeders you know who just got hold hold of a couple of dogs & started breeding. As a matter of fact, why don't you tell me anything at all you know about anything? You certainly know jack about the problems ethical breeders of SBT are facing. There is more to being a breeder than just putting a couple of dogs together. Damn internet experts...every day a different problem.

Obviously a male dog. He is just doing what every male passenger does when a female driver exceeds 60.

Well there you go. All "black" staffords are in fact brindles. gotta luv them staffies.

Dont't sweat it, you're right. Just smile, give a little shrug & move on. You can't educate idiots.

Ignore this one Schnooze - he likes attention. Shame he didn't answer the question. Ha hahahahah. Hey!.....bare bones.... I have a staffy & I want to breed. Duh five will get you ten the staffy is a blue. When the breed you love is very popular & is being exploited by entrepeneurs see if your attitude is the same? That wont happen of course...your breeds "safe"

Your right - I didnt mention an intereset in showing. In fact, I didnt mention anything about what I do. That wasnt what this topic was about. But thanks for your valuable input cruzzi Best in show goes to you... Pass goes to you. We have enough cowboys in the breed without anymore "entrenpeneurs" Let me guess. Blue is your fav colour?

You need to look outside Group 2 a bit more often Dougie. It's called Field Trialling and quail are central to the sport. :) And just how many of the previously docked breeds are from group 3 Nearly all breeds of dog that compete in Utility Field Trials are a traditionally docked breed - Bracco, Brittany, GSP, GWP, Vizsla, Wirehaired Vizsla, Weimaraner, Italian Spinone. The spaniel breeds that can compete in the Spaniel & Retriever field trials are traditionally docked - Cocker, Am Cocker, Clumber, English Springer, Field, Welsh Springer, Sussex. eta. Docking is not limited to nearly complete removal of the tail. Most of the above gundogs traditionally had 1/4 to 2/3 of their tail removed. Indeed many people I meet do not even realise that my older Vizsla is docked at all, but it makes all the difference. Huh? I couldn't give you a percentage, I doubt anyone could! I'm in the very situation of having a young dog of a previsouly docked breed that is suffering ongoing tail issues which may well require amputation. She was intended to compete in several ANKC sporting events, as well as the show ring. She may not be affected by this motion due to her DOB, but my next dog may well be. I knew I had left myself wide open. Being in hurry I pressed send & then gave it some throught as I was cruising to my appontment. I don't believe editing after replies have been posted. I was miles off the mark. Lesson learned. Curious though, Genuine question.how did you young dog hurt his tail so badly it may have to been amputated? Cynical question, are the amputations usually performed at the same vertebrae the breed was previously docked at.

As I said earlier, The accusation has been made. Put up or shut up. Someone needs to be held accountable. For the action or for the accusation. The fact is there isn't any proof that people have been illegally docking, there haven't been a great number of charges laid and quite frankly I can't remember any ANKC exhibitor being charged, after the very first example hung out to dry years ago. So it looks to be nothing more than someone carting out their bucket of sour grapes and chucking it in the direction of the ANKC. If there isn't any proof then accuser should be held to account for bringing the membership into disrepute. Is the "example hung out to dry" of which you speak the well known judge & breeder that I heard of?

You own a stafford, but didn't mention an interest in showing? Learning the trade so as to speak. To me that's a bad sign.

I don't understand your comment "Different breeds" when in the ANCK breed extension(from the link you posted) it says Exactly what those who do know what they are talking about have been saying from the begining. An object lesson for those who "learn" their facts from this site to listen to the informed & ignore the bluster of the ignorant. Edited to add. How can you tell the difference? Asked to see the registration papers, it's the only way.

The photos are misleading The AST standards states 19" is the preferable height, which is iffy at the best of times. Weight in proportion. The APBT standard is even more iffy but the weight in proportion to height also a requirement. Given that, regardless of the height, both dogs should have similar builds. :) Yeah, that's been my experience. I don't like how some AST's look these days. Massive heads and chests like a brick sh*thouse. so, we're agreeing that they're two separate breeds? Those of us who know what we are talking about? No What we are saying is, as they are the same breed they should look the same & the photos are misleading. You wont see many well bred representatives of the "genre" that resemble the AST pic in a sanctioned show anywhere in the world. You will see them in the hands of the bovver boys as pitbulls however. Coarse & overdone. not really a good example of breed actually. Once upon a time...Shiloh Shepherds were GSD's too- http://www.shilohshepherds.info/issrShilohShepherdsCoatColor.pdf would you say they were the same today? http://www.riverwindshilohs.com/6.html You may be better served to do research into the AST/APBT & for that matter even include the SBT rather than throwing up obscure examples of breeds that you think justifies the misnomer that the APBT & the AST are seperate breeds. You might even try to find copies of the Ontario hearings. The APBT Club of America testified the two were the same breed & the American answer to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Result? All three breeds were banned. Your example of the GSD & Alsation is the perfect answer to your own lack of knowledge. Same breed, two different names & for reason that suit the different demographiocs of the two seperate owners/admirers situations. Pommies still call the GSD "Alsations" The only difference between the AST & the APBT is owner attitude. AST owners don't want to be associated with the reputation of the APBT while the pittie owners revel in it. And therein lies the difference. It's a breed of people difference rather than a breed of dog difference.

Sounds like a chant at a P.E.T.A rally Which brings us back to an opinion...... does a dog have the right to have a tail or not. If the dogs could have a vote on it, I wonder who they would vote to have blown up?

As I said earlier, The accusation has been made. Put up or shut up. Someone needs to be held accountable. For the action or for the accusation.