ness

Yeah look that is what I keep saying re the non-surgery leg but the "experts" were saying otherwise based on what I have told them as its unfolded. The RH stuff also started after she had had a run of 2 really good weeks of no issues with the surgery leg. I am very mindful of compensation type issues.

The logic behind doing the EMG and the xrays/joint taps was to minimize the number of GA's as they could both be done at the same time so also in part to save dollars. They have said there is no obvious rush over anything and I can always do them if she deteriorates at any stage. Its been nearly 2 years of lame dog so at least they appreciate the time and resources I have already put in to get her this far. Its just all happening at a super inconvenient time in my life. No time is good to have a lame dog but certainly not when you have finished up university and the job market is slow . In the perfect world where money was no question she would have had the EMG and joint taps no questions asked but resources do come into it and I don't have the resources to just go throwing into things at the moment.

Best of luck with his recovery PA. Fingers crossed for a smooth and successful surgery and recovery period.

Yep its the weighing up the costs involved which at this stage stopped me from going ahead and getting the joint taps/xrays/EMG that they wanted. Especially if its really the patella causing the issues still which is what I think is going on. However I am no expert. Its also not at the point where its causing her pain for long periods of time.

These are the few I have sent through to the specialists at various points. The first two vids were just messing around/playing in the yard as part of training, not taken on the same day though. We had just been doing a small amount of tug/training etc. I think the third video was just cos she was sniffing. Seriously I have been stalking this poor dog with a video camera on and off for the last month to try and get the episodes on video and its been almost impossible. The running joke with the specialist is if I want to trial her again then I just make sure I have the camera running. She has been having issues with sitting and pushing off from a sit. She came up badly lame retrieving her DB at training a few weeks ago (specialist said she was fine to start training again) and that is when I realized there was still something quite serious going on. She was noticeably lame and then struggled to jump on the bed when we got home. I took her out the following day though to try and replicate what happened the previous night armed with a video camera and she was fine. I have been loathed to train her to much since - we do bits at home and she has managed 3 Rally-O obedience trials. Other people would say she was fine I know my dog though and don't think she is. The problem I have is separating out what may be from the surgery and what may be god knows what else :laugh:.

This was immediately post non-weight bearing -

You have a point persephone. Its very bizarre in that she isn't especially bothered by the episodes. These are a few (admittedly poor) examples:

Thanks for the responses and thoughts - yes the patella is still luxating readily on palpation - in fact the chiro vet had a feel a few weeks ago (when I took her over the random RH lameness) and said it was luxating more readily then he had ever felt it luxate previously . Considering he was the one that diagnosed it initially and it was only subtle that comment surprised and shocked me a little bit. At her last specialist appointment he felt it had improved over her previous appointment so I guess it seems to be a "relative" concept. Hmm as to conceding her chances of having it are relatively low I pushed the point and asked what if we didn't go ahead with any further diagnostics at this point and if it was immune mediated polyarthropathy what would happen. The comment was he didn't think she had it but it would likely get progressively worse. Her lameness doesn't appear painful. Most of the episodes of lameness recently have been with her LH (so her surgery leg). She spent an hour at the beach this morning though and there were signs of both non-weight bearing on the LH and the RH over the course of the hour we spent there. I should say she is experiencing two very different types of lameness at the moment. One just seems to be where she will stop stationary without putting full weight on the leg (this is what is happening in both her RH and LH). Sometimes her gait after is normal and other times it appears choppy and stilted. The other which has increased in the last couple of days seems very classic patella issue and more what I was observing pre-surgery. She has not been trialled on any pain relief recently.

She only had soft tissue tightening because when she was on the table the specialist felt her groove was sufficiently deep enough and her tibial tuberosity was aligned correctly. I have been told if she needs a revision surgery which is looking somewhat more likely he will reassess the grove depth and may chose to deepen it and he will more then likely over correct her alignment because while it appears to be lined up correctly the pull must be creating a problem. I would really rather not be going through the process again mind you . She was still crated and on strict rest for 6 weeks the first time. I know its 6-8 weeks if they cut bone though so I don't think the post-surgery will be any much different.

Aussielover I was told regardless of what was done the surgery was considered relatively low risk. The specialist wasn't sure what he would do until he had her on the table so I asked for the risk associated with worse case scenario (which included bone cutting).

PA - on the whole its suppose to be a highly successful surgery with low risk of complication. Follow the post-surgery guidelines properly and you should really not encounter to many issues. I know of others who had had the procedure with no complications. Even Kenz coped ok with all the crating and rehab and I am sure Scooter will be fine. They are given enough pain relief so I wouldn't be to stressed about the dog feeling much pain - Kenz didn't appear to at any point. Kenz had the surgery because I was hopeful she would compete again. The specialist didn't see any reason why she shouldn't post-surgery (if it had been hassle free). Luxating patellas are seldom due to injury so its highly unlikely Scooter did it jumping off the bed.

Way to go Ptolomy and the Red Rally kids . Such a lovely photo :).

Hmmm the initial problem was some very random three legging (if we are talking hind end only - this was an incidental finding while she was being rested for her shoulder because when she started leash walks she started having an increased problem with the hind end) but yes it was the patella and it presented pretty much like a classic luxating patella. Although being a BC the initial thought was cruciate rupture - but her cruciate was stable. She has had random issues with her other hind leg BUT the specialist assures me he was very thorough with checking over that patella and he is 100% certain it is stable (as is the chiro vet who found the LH luxating patella). We monitored it over the course of 2 months and it was progressing so the decision was made to operate. It was the chiro vet who is normally fairly conservative re surgery suggestions that felt it was warranted. The specialist was fairly certain it would be necessary somewhere down the track so the decision was made to have it done because I was in a position to make sure she was appropriately looked after and rehabbed thoroughly post-surgery. I have bought up the question of whether the surgery needs redoing - a few times :laugh:. The continued thought was hopefully she would improve with time and it wouldn't be necessary. The problem is the lameness in the other limb is fairly random and not seriously bothering her. I got her into the chiro vet within 12 hours of one episode and he couldn't find anything physical that would explain it. I am still wondering if the RH is just because she has super sensitive feet and is a bit of a red herring. That was the reason she ended up having an appointment with the neurospecialist because the ortho who did her surgery had been having email and discussions with the neuro guy. We held off on that for a few weeks in the hope of collecting a little more video evidence but that proved virtually impossible. It was during this time that her surgery leg became more apparently the problem. She was on pain meds post-op but not recently - tramadol and caroprofen but only for the normal post-surgery course. She has seen a physio a couple of times - one 2 days after her 6 weeks check and then a few weeks later. She did suggest the possibility of there being a problem in her spine because of the unpredictability when her RH started to bother her as well. I guess before the last few days I figured things were "ok" but now the LH is bothering her so much I am convinced its not the case. There is a little more to the story - she has had issues doing stairs post surgery at various times or struggled to jump on the bed. She has also had some very obvious lameness and choppy stride type action at various points. Nothing so concrete that I have been able to get video though.

Well done everybody for their results at the WA States .

Somebody suggested a second specialist opinion. The only problem with that is i am not keen on going back to the other specialist centre after I have already had dealings with them over her shoulder and I wasn't especially happy with it.

Yeah we have been doing some things like that which I think helped megan_. Not sure why its all gone backwards in the last week or so and that does concern me. She has fairly even muscle tone now. About the only interesting comment from her appointment with the neurospecialist was she has questionable pain in her hocks which nobody has found previously.

Not sure what I am posting here for other than a feeling of being completely overwhelmed with a situation and just needing to vent frustration. Nearly 6 months ago Kenz had surgery to correct a grade 2 medial luxating patella. She had a relatively simple soft tissue type procedure with no bone cutting and it should have all been fine. At her 6 weeks appointment she had considerable muscle wastage and unfortunately for me the patella was still luxating a little. It was suggested that time may improve the situation and certainly I think the feeling was when she had regained some of the muscle then she should at least be able to manage with it without any issues. She was still having random patella slipping episodes with the surgery leg until 16 or 17 weeks post op when we had a really good fortnight with nothing and then things started to become complicated. She started having some random hind end lameness with the other hind leg. She would stop stationary with no weight on the leg or would come up lame. The long and the short of it was after emails and video back and forth she was eventually checked out by a neurospecialist who didn't think the problem was neurological. Last week I get the recommendation that they want a substantial amount of diagnostics just to rule things out which aren't very likely. The two suggestions they have suggested are an EMG and also xrays/joint taps to look for immune mediated polyarthropathy. It has been conceded though the chances of her having that are relatively low. In the last fortnight its gone from being her non-surgery leg back to her surgery leg so I am really wondering if its just the patella isn't resolved how it should be. So now she is barely managing a walk to the park without ending up back on three legs which I presume is her patella slipping still. She has had some episodes which are the patella going but others where she just won't put weight on the leg and holds it slightly up off the ground. I am just fed up with lame dog. She is now nearly 6 months post-op and I am feeling overwhelmed and a little frustrated. I am not sure the appointment with the neurospecialist was useful and I have drawn the line at the additional diagnostics they wish to run for the moment as I am not an open bank and it was going to be an expensive fishing trip. She is possibly having more issues now then she was pre-surgery. Its not making any sense to me and I am really stressed about it. Never mind this little girl is anything but a couch potato and does everything at a million miles an hour.

Hope it works or you PA - Kenz is nearly 6 months post-op and still having issues with hers .

Sorry to hear that PA. I am in the unfortunate position of having to retire my youngster as well. We just can't get ahead on her lameness issues. Very sad indeed .

Well done Sue and Waldo

Brag from me - about time I have something to post in this thread. Both kids were entered in a double Rally-O trial today, both needing 2 passes for their Rally Novice titles. Well the old girl Ness did brilliantly and got some brilliant scores for both her passes. A nice way to retire . Kenz also managed to put together two solid rounds and finished up her Rally Novice title as well. A good day and they both got very well deserved special treats on the way home from the trial .

I would think so FHRP . I have one that lives in the back of my car which I got when they were on Free Shipping at Clean Run.

Hmm beats the way my girls decide to help out. We don't have a ton of lawn so have a hand push mower (of the non-electric variety) so they help me out by dropping sticks and toys in front of the mower which I of course then need to throw to get them out of the way :laugh:.

you don't know the meaning of email heavy (oops) - trust me I am sure your not the only one and probably in very good company . If your passionate (and driven) to wanting to help your dog out I think its just part of the nature of the territory.

My opinion for what its worth - if you have a plan designed by Steve then just work through it and as megan said send him email updates and make the modifications he suggests. If you try and mix and match and get to many peoples input into resolving a problem then it can actually make the situation worse. I have been in a similar position with a behavioral type problem and if you try and lump together to many people's input then it ends up pearshaped and you don't seem to make the progress you make if you stick with just the one person (so long as they are somebody who knows what they are talking about which Steve does). Steve knows his stuff when it comes to resolving behavioral issues so if he has provided you with a plan and a structure to follow then just do as your told and I am sure it will work out successfully for you. If things aren't working let him know and keep him informed. Best of luck.