ness

Hmm set a terrier onto the job of rat dispatch - sorry nothing serious to add to the conversation.

It may be like heat exhaustion in humans the quicker its treated the less likely they are to continue to suffer and if recognised early a better chance of no ill effects. Also wonder if the metabolic changes are still present just asymptomatic. I think the huge difference with the BCC is that you are likely to get a more than an isolated episode and they do happen in conditions when heat exhaustion is less likely to be defined as the cause. I think it wasn't until Kenz's first winter that we were really certain it was anything more then just heat exhaustion.

This is taken directly from the website re heatstroke Vickie "A commonly asked question is how to differentiate BCC episodes from recurrent heat exhaustion or heat stroke. For years, dogs with episodes of BCC have been labeled as “heat intolerant” because collapse is most likely to occur in hot weather. Dogs with BCC certainly are hot after exercise but their body temperatures are not higher than normal dogs performing the same exercise so it is not simply overheating causing collapse. Also it is important to recognize that the collapse episodes we see in dogs with BCC are very different from those associated with actual heat stroke. Heat stroke severe enough to cause mentation changes, gait abnormalities and collapse in a dog will be life-threatening and often fatal. Recovery, if it does occur, is slow and prolonged (hours to days) even with intensive treatment. Laboratory evaluation reveals a dramatic increase in the muscle enzyme CK and many affected dogs develop acute kidney failure. More than 80% of dogs collapsed due to heat stroke exhibit mentation changes that are severe, progressive and persistent (for hours to days). Damage to blood vessel walls leads to widespread clot formation, damage to multiple organs, low platelet numbers and often widespread bleeding. In contrast, dogs with BCC-related collapse episodes show no laboratory abnormalities and recover quickly – returning to normal within 5 to 30 minutes. Besides the severity of collapse episodes, the recurrent nature of BCC-related episodes and the fact that collapse can occur even on days with moderate or cool ambient temperatures helps to distinguish BCC from heat-related illness."

If you have video of an episode it might also be worth uploading it and sending the link through to the researchers in the states. They have been great. Definitely go ahead and get the CL test done though and rule that out. My BCC dog is also a very nervy timid girl so that might be purely coincidental.

Probably your safest bet - that way there are no surprises . All the best with the surgery and recovery period. ETA. I think westimum might have had a positive experience with Richard Savery.

Never heard of him sorry - does he work at a regular vet practice? I am sure you could ring the practice and request a ball park cost before showing up to the appointment. I recently did a ring around for a cruciate repair surgery.

Have to say I haven't posted in here yet but having been in a similar position all I can say is I do owe a few DOL big time when I have been thrown with some huge vet bills in the last year or two. I wouldn't have been completely sunk without some of those offers (money for pain meds etc) and mostly they were before I even had a chance to say no. Some just happened. DOL rocks. I am just fortunate that my parents came to the party on the old girls cruciate surgery (although she is the family dog) a few weeks ago. That would have been an absolute sinker since I am still paying regular vet bills of my young girl.

Nah all good Clover - its a bit complicated - all I meant by my post is they don't have a genetic test available for BCs which breeders can access yet. Labs they have been able to test for a while. They have the marker and my understanding was they were in final case study selection phase of affected dogs earlier in the year when I submitted Kenz's blood for inclusion.

Just to clarify Clovers post - yes EIC in labs etc can be tested for BC collapse cannot yet be tested for. It isn't the same gene responsible despite the commonalities in the way the condition presents.

Its not so much ambient heat as it is excitement, intense concentration. Kenz has had collapse episodes when its 13 degrees. The video link I posted in this thread it was around 20 degrees and morning. Humidity does seem to play a role in the episodes. I have always found in the much warmer temperatures 30+ Kenz is less likely to collapse. Whether she doesn't push herself quite as hard because its already warm I don't know. The other thing I should have said is long walks are less inclined to trigger an episode. I find it really hard because even teaching tricks/mental outlets can bring on an episode so its a bit tricky it a dog who craves work to find a balance.

Knowing how terrifying it is to witness and having seen Kenz's episodes progress its certainly a condition for which I hope they develop a genetic test soon. A couple of links - one to the announcement on the current state of the research and the second is a link to the university undertaking the research. http://www.bordercol...showtopic=35643 http://www.cvm.umn.e...ordercollieEIC/

I have only just started using the cool coat that I posted above but know other dogs with the condition who use the coat. It doesn't seem to get smelly and you can actually dry them out they just take longer to rehydrate. This particular model does stay wet when you pack it whereas the others I have tried you can dry them out. I have this one which isn't a "wet" coat which might be ok in your case if you have a slightly larger boy. Kenz is a pretty tiny bitch and its a little bit bulky on her (she weighs only just on 13kg but for a larger dog it may work better) - http://www.k9pro.com.au/techkewl-phase-change-dog-cooler-vest.html

This is the latest version of cool coat I have tried with Kenz and so far found to be the most suitable - http://cleanrun.com/...product_id=3503 The other thing I would recommend is no ball play because its triggered by intense excitement. If I want to let my girl play fetch we do it in water (i.e the creek or the beach or she gets 2-3 throws of a toy then into the creek). Some signs to watch for is a purple tinge to the tongue, they will also start walking or trotting back with a toy rather than running back although Kenz has gone from running hard to fully over in 2-3 minutes. Most vets aren't really aware of the condition and there are no real diagnostic tests for the condition at this stage.

Yep thats it send a request to join - if you don't get added message me and I will tell the moderators to look out for the request.

Yep my 5 year old BC has episodes since she was around 13 months give or take a bit. There is no genetic test at this stage unfortunately but hopefully in the pipeline. I have submitted my girls blood for the research work into the condition. Here is a link to a video of one of Kenz's more minor episodes - The one thing to remember is the more episodes they have the more they are prone to them. She is exercised year round in a cool coat or with access to water. You learn to watch for the signs of an impending episode and take appropriate action eg cooling them off. Swimming is good exercise for a dog with the condition and its pretty essential in summer that most exercise occurs with access to water. Be mindful though because in labs there have been cases of dogs collapsing with access to water. There is also a FB group for people's dogs have the condition if you want to join it and share experiences. Is your dog ANKC pedigreed? There are a few instances occurring and if so I would be mentioning it to your dogs breeder to. The condition is thought to be recessive as it is in labs.

When my old girl had a urine sample tested recently I was told the best sample to get is the first one of the day when they have been inside or not let out overnight. Especially if they are testing things like specific gravity.

As a dog sport person (I have show line BCs) I chose to wait with my second dog until after her first season - honestly I am not so convinced it made a huge difference. While its only a sample size of 2 my first BC girl got to 13 perfectly sound before doing a cruciate. She was desexed at 6 months and well before a first season. My youngster was desexed after her first season (~13 months) and has had a huge run of orthopedic related problems. I guess it would depend if you are able to manage a bitch in season I am certainly not convinced of it being a necessity.

Here you go this is Kenz's story -

Camera is still off being repaired . Promise video when I eventually get it back.

Have had my girls on Rose-Hip Vital Canine. My youngster has bilateral luxating patellas and has had surgery to fix one but its the only thing that seems to be keeping her off the heavy meds for extended periods of time. My old girl has been on the RHVC for 6 months had just had surgery to repair a ruptured cruciate.

Good news Cosmolo .

Weight bearing is promising. Work out if its stable or not and go from there. If its stable you might get away with resting and restricting exercise. Fingers crossed. Certainly don't envy the position.

Tramadol and carprieve will do very little if the cruciate is fully ruptured . I presume the knee has been assessed as being unstable, is there any meniscus damage? Is it the cruciate rupture that has caused you to reassess his comfort level? If it wasn't for that would you be asking the same question? Not trying to push you one way or the other sometimes its really hard to know what to do. What about looking at the option of a brace?

I have to say similar I have a 450d of my own and my brother has a 60d. I have borrowed his camera on occasion and no real difference to the photo outcome using auto settings. I would look at better lenses before upgrading the body if money is an issue :).

Hugs Cosmolo. Its always hard to know and hard to make that call especially when an otherwise active dog is in pain a lot of the time. Walking a similar line with Kenz but not quite as bad as yours. She still has good days but on the bad days the pain meds aren't enough and its heart breaking.