ness

RubyStar if you haven't got a copy of Shaping Success and you want a copy - I have one for sale . No need for the 2 copies I have sitting on my shelf at present. As for agility dvds - prod Ptolomy a bit harder .

I was sitting here looking at my potential plans and wonder if they are a bit ambitious for Kenz yet. I think I just need to spend tonight back chaining/proofing contacts and not try and put them into sequences yet because she is far from reliably proofed. Maybe at this stage I should focus on jump sequences with her and then work on contacts separately .

Scary thing - I am sitting here with my little CR exercise source book working out what I'll set up at club tonight . We get the scramble and the see-saw tonight - am looking to pick two separate drills we can set up and somehow combine into a course for anybody who wants a course . They will also work well for Kenz cos they are short sequences we can work on .

Nah think you could use another one .

Oh now I don't consider you a tragic Dova I am jealous - want to go do herding with Kenz .

RubyStar - Ptolomy would say train more walk less least that is what I got told when I use to walk Ness that far twice a day and then still expect a UD round out of her .

So long as STAGE TWO isn't released at midnight - I am still catching up on sleep after STAGE ONE's midnight release yawn .

Thanks guys for all the assistance - sorry only just saw your response Casima. Can I ask what might seem like a stupid question but because I can run fast enough to not worry about having her at a distance would you work on that and let the distance come later. So run with her rather than try to handle stuff at a distance for the time being. Guess I am saying should I be pushing her and in effect challenging her to keep speed up by running her as I would my older one. I am hoping to get some new video tonight and so I can see if i have taken on all the suggestions .

Seita - thats just bad although it is Kenz's birthday coming up . Your not suppose to be helping me shop I do badly enough as it is when its just me. And I am still managing to hold out - that little girl has more tug toys then you can poke a stick at . Lets just say somebody is a bit gear obsessed.

I am still resisting the temptation . Mostly because I can't decide what tugs to buy and if I really need another one.

Ah I don't use a stay command at all . Sit means sit, drop means drop. She has probably only broken 2 sits in her life and I just haven't practiced them since in an obedience context . As for my older girl I can count on a single hand how many she has broken just unfortunately for me she picked the Royal as one of them .

Thanks for the responses to my questions Steve - so I am not so far off track or as confused as I thought I was. Enough theory for me.

Kenz isn't even in the ring yet and she can't understand the point of a sit stay - if your going to sit in front of a jump for agility sure but otherwise mum I'll just make myself nice and comfy laying down because if I am going to have to stay for any length of time I might as well make myself comfy. Ness on the other hand is probably one of a handful of dogs who has broken a drop stay by sitting up - argh cost me a third place on a brilliant score in Open at the Royal and its still a painful memory .

Yep you are .

So is it right to equate prey drive with something instinctual to a certain level - first time dog takes off after a moving object (dog in this case being a herding breed since that is what I am most familiar with) surely its not acting on a previous "rewarding experience" so there must be a trigger to this behavior. Is there a greying between what is happening as a result of something being a rewarding experience and what is prey drive? And how would you classify a herding dog working stock which I thought was always a modified prey drive?

I have seen xena96 do that with one of her dogs on more than one occassion .

Congratulations Ptolomy and Caffy . ETA. So I guess this means the toller tree remained vacant and Rivsky and I can't expect to recieve any tollers in the post after this classic . Ah well maybe we might get lucky later on in the year :D . Hey Rivsky maybe you can just slip a few in your suitcase along with the i-squeaks when your over at the Nationals. Sure you could easily manage to pack a Lexi or Cider in with them just show them an i-squeak .

Ok maybe I have missed something: K9 wrote: prey drive is the dogs desire to chase and capture.... Is it the capture element of the above examples that is missing which is preventing the example from being prey drive. Obviously a dog running after a moving object the first time isn't doing so because its found it rewarding. Possibly subsequent times yes but why is it one dog will chase a moving object that very first time whereas another different dog doesn't show the same tendency. I can understand why exposure and opportunity to practice a desirable/or undesirable response to a stimulus may shift the outcome. So is a dog that is not highly motion reactive, necessarily high in prey drive .

Just on this - Lets take two hypothetical dogs - Dog A - Shows strong prey drive towards inappropriate items - cars/trucks/bikes/birds anything that moves (would require significant correction to stop a chase) - Same dog however has showed very little interest in chasing balls/frisbees/tugs Dog B - Shows prey drive towards appropriate items - balls/tugs/stock (but in an appropriate context) - Dog B has however shown very little interest in chasing in appropriate objects So my question is this - which dog has the higher prey drive or is it possibly a case of Dog B having been given ample appropriate items to direct there prey drive onto whereas Dog A was either encouraged inappropriately to chase anything that moved or not given an appropriate outlet in the form of toys/frisbees at a young enough age.

Go Jedi .

I wouldn't even bother with the 2o/2o necessarily at this point as in effect what you want is the dog to stay in position regardless of the distraction. So what I did was proof a sit/drop/stand stay with all sorts of distractions and then build these into our plank work. It means they aren't getting the opportunity to rehearse breaking from a 2o/2o position quite as much because they are already use to being proofed to stay with distractions. Will Spice stay while you let the other dogs off lead at a park, will Spice stay while you put her food bowl on the table. The more questions you can ask the dog the more solid the behavior will be.

Its just about slowly increasing the distraction level - will spice hold her 2o/2o while you place a ball on the ground, will she hold position while you bounce the ball, roll it past her, can you throw food and have her hold position. Then go back to introducing other equipment around her. Build up to having her hold position while you sprint past her etc.

I am trying to work out who these two are: http://picasaweb.google.com/JenniferCoton/...117144251595266

Hmm I use firefox and never had issues with the old site .

K9: These terms are really just relevant to me and the way I think about drives and training.... Thanks for that clarification - the two examples you provided highlighted the difference pretty clearly.