ness

I had a similar problem with my high drive border collie who would lay down and like your dog her natural tendency when asked to stop was to lay down. I originally taught her sit means sit but also I found the biggest answer to my problem was asking for a sit stay - when she lay down I quietly took her by the collar and tied her up and let my other dog off for a play. Problem sorted - she has been touch wood pretty reliable ever since. She valued the opportunity to play with her toy so highly that a simple removal of the reward opportunity clarified what she was suppose to be doing. I should say I had of course built up duration pretty gradually and she was up to around 50 seconds when she kept deciding she could get that far but would go no longer. We had reached a sticking point but after that she quickly built to 3 min+++ fairly reliably. Also work on duration before distance before distraction so work at getting a stay with you right in front or at the side where she really has no room to lay down.

Will give you an example of my purebred pedigree Border Collie girl. She was 2.4kg at 11 weeks, 4.7kg at 13 weeks, finished up around 13.5 kg and 45cm. Not sure if that is any help to you or not . So she is a fraction under breed standard but still a "medium" dog who wasn't that big as a baby. I know one of her litter sisters in contrast was heavier than her and finished up heavier then her when fully grown but was probably a little smaller again in height (well when I met her at 12 months).

Time of day you trained, any distractions where you trained, what you used as a reward.....

I would probably persist with the toy. Have you ever tried just walking back inside when she goes into the border collie crouch and stare mode. Not specifically with 2x2 but with any other training with a toy where the same thing has happened.

:rolleyes: no its not but people don't necessarily know thats what is stashed in your pockets at the time.

Can't say I ever had that issue with Kenz. Her sits have always been tight and close . A little too close sometimes.

No I agree with Ptolomy . Hmmm you should see some of my mock trial videos by the time I have stashed jackpot containers and or tug toys in my back pockets - talk about fat bum then :D .

Mason looked great . About the only thing I would say is get a slightly shorter lead and you don't have to go quite as far on the SFE but really well done :D .

:D Oooops was a little slow RS .

Poor Lars - fingers crossed . RS so who else has Ptolomy been dating other than the fencing contractor - WHERE IS MY GOSS :D ;) .

Sorry poodlefan - yes you could train your dog to cue off names of fruit so why should the fact you might give a command in another language be any different. So long as the word is short and not drawn out. I remember some discussion on this at some point and it was more to do with the length of some words in other languages. The only time a specific word has been stipulated is for the utility food refusal exercise in which case it is stipulated in the rules that the handler must use the word "STAY".

Dasha wrote: 2. Like someone said, the judge needs to know what the commands are so that they can hear if commands are repeated or altered or encouragement are used. Why does the judge need to know what your saying. There is no difference in determing if a command is repeated regardless of the language. Either your saying something or your silent. No issue with altering commands there is nothing that specifies you must use the same word the entire time - i.e. heelwork you don't have to use the same heel command everytime you take off from heel for example. I have 2 different recalls for my DOR in open and have had no issue with that.

Something only fellow agility people would understand - I am now the proud owner of a 3m length of timber - soon to be transformed into a see-saw come contact plank .

Yep Kiesha midget does sleep in and snuggle - she loves to be picked up and cuddled - GO FIGURE that one out. She is a total lap dog and more cuddly then Ness. Loves physical contact and being as close as possible. She just melts into a puddle. If Kenz had her way she would sleep touching and on top of you. Ness does cuddles but won't stay on the bed, Kenz stays put all night. But yeah she is also pretty goey when you want her to be. She probably would have had a nice off-switch if I hadn't set about sabotaging it from when she was a baby. I presumed if she was off then she would stay off LOL.

hmm so kiesha now is not the time to tell you of my two the one who lets me sleep in would be Kenz. She doesn't get out of bed until I do whatever time that is. Ness has to get up at 7:30 regardless .

dancinbcs you are probably correct I was more just teasing Kiesha now (don't worry I know her ROFL). Kiesha Ness says your welcome to test drive her so long as there is plenty of food around .

And a midget BC - Kiesha .

Interesting I wouldn't recommend necessarily having done a full run through without any form of reward. The only time either of mine don't get some sort of reward actually during a ring round is at a trial but both will be rewarded upon finishing in the ring. Obviously its a sensible idea to extend the length of time the dog is expected to work before receiving the reward but I don't know of many top level triallers who would ever do a training round minus some form of reward at some point. Both my dogs however are taught to do multiple exercises before a reward they just don't know when the reward might come when we train. Sometimes it might come when they are lined up at the start peg, sometime during a heel pattern, it might even not be until after a SFE (if we are talking CCD/Novice level). On the matter of double trials I know my older girl couldn't cope with 2 rounds in a day so I don't ask her to. My youngster probably could but just being at a trial is tiring when you first start - for both dogs and handlers.

I would suggest a Toller is different in requirements to Borders but a high drive toller would I agree be no worse then a high drive Border.

Yes Bear's bed is called Buster :D or apparently Tiggy's head ;) ;)

I have met some pretty low key tollers again its about picking the line to suit your needs as with any breed. They all aren't over the top high drive dogs - sure some lines are but you get that in all breeds. I think if your keen on an aussie then it is likely you will be able to find one that is suitable for your lifestyle . Dogs are also pretty adaptable in the end.

WA is where my original rolled leather ones came from YEARS ago . ETA I got one of the Janet Morrison ones but it started to look a little to worse for wear after not very long - hmmmmm.

I love my rolled leather one - but need to find another one or two. Like to have a spare and I presently don't.

Awww how precious Ptolomy - what a clever boy Strauss is he knows he is going to be an obedience dog after all. .

huski I ran into problems were I didn't need a cue because that was what she offered me on all random objects. I remember at training one night they had these little kiddie plastic chairs and Kenz was offering elephant trick on that .