Rosetta

Totally agree - I don't understand these "how to talk to breeders" threads at all. Communication between people is a two way street - and people differ on how good they are at it :)

Does anyone know what size the Artemis OSoPure kibble is? I am currently feeding TOTW but the kibble is a little too large for a small dog IMO. I would love to find a grain free kibble that is smaller.

Thanks Staffyluv - was just curious - there were no details in the ad as to how long he had been there. Just thought it was sad - I hope the pound does rehome him.

I notice someone on Gumtree giving away their Pug if someone can spring it from the Pound (Brisbane) - cost is $170. Is this the average cost of reclaiming a dog from the pound? It would be quite a lot for some people to raise.

Mine could not care less how I am feeling - its all about me Mum :laugh:

There are several grain free available - if you do a search here you will find lots of information. Taste of the Wild also has a grain free but is not available in shops - only online. It is very good. VIP have bought out a grain free that is available at the supermarket and it is getting good feedback.

I have enquired at two boarding kennels recently - both will accept the 3 yearly C3 with an annual KC - yay

Cosmolo I think that is the absolute crux of it and I think it helps for people to share stories like yours so those faced with that awful situation can ask plenty of questions up front to ensure it is done as compassionately as possible.

I have had 3 dogs PTS in my lifetime, all 3 were very peaceful with no visible fretting from the dog. I have also worked at a large pound and I have never seen a dog visibly distressed before being PTS. I wish I could say the same for mine dogs My eldest Samoyed screamed when they gave him the injection and continued screaming until his heart stopped. He had been in for surgery before, had needles and never had an issue. It absolutely broke my heart. I am very sorry this happened - it is heartbreaking

I have had 3 dogs PTS in my lifetime, all 3 were very peaceful with no visible fretting from the dog. I have also worked at a large pound and I have never seen a dog visibly distressed before being PTS. I don't doubt yours and others experiences but the fact is I have seen footage of dogs in pounds cowering and trembling before being led into "the room" for PTS - so it does happen. It obviously depends on the environment and the people carrying out the procedure - I am pleased to hear your pound does things compassionately.

I thought the point was though that they are afraid/distressed therefore they are suffering - rather than whether they understand the concept of death? Of course they don't think like humans or have the same understanding of what death means but they are sentient beings who are capable of picking up on the distress of others around them - either their owners or other animals.

Hi Kingbob - so sorry to hear about your loss of Fred. Is it possible to get rid of the canvas bed completely - or at least store it somewhere and get a completely new bed for your new dog? If you wash the blankets thoroughly and give them a vinegar rinse then they should be fine. If you can give the house a thorough clean and wash over the hard areas with some diluted vinegar - especially where Fred may have had any "accidents" - that would help also. Remember any new dog may tend to "mark" out its territory anyway and that would be normal until he is trained appropriately and learns where you want him to "go". Good luck - will you look for another beagle boy?

There has been plenty of uproar about that type of thing on this forum - we just are not allowed to talk about Gumtree anymore :)

The concept of their own imminent death or that of an owner or another dog perhaps? I would suspect that there is a huge amount of irrefutable evidence that dogs understand when an owner, or another animal that they live with, is dying or has died. Dogs do grieve, do they not? As with any mammal in particular, they also understand when their own life is in danger and react accordingly, using the flight or fight response. In regards to this particular situation, it is a shame that the son chose to follow his mother's wishes. People who know they are dying do not always make rational decisions, just as people who are not dying also can make stupid decisions. In my opinion, this woman's decision was not entirely different to people who choose to have a fairly young and healthy dog put down for other nefarious reasons. Yes - ask any person involved in killing dogs in pounds and shelters. I suspect they know exactly what is about to happen to them. The airy fairy idea that this dog did not "suffer" in any way before being killed is just denial of the reality IMO. Some may be fearful of the smells and strange people but they really don't have a clue about death. I have been on both sides, I have held animals as they were PTS when I was doing vet nursing and I also am a cognitive researcher who has done research with dogs in order to determine what they are capable of doing and understanding. I can tell you right now there are no papers that demonstrate dogs understand death, but plenty that provide evidence they don't. Your anecdotes are just that, your own experience coloured by your emotions and it is not evidence. Trust me, if dogs could be shown to demonstrate the cognitive capabilities to understand death there's be a Nature paper and you couldn't escape the press, it would be huge news. We think non-human apes might have a limited ability to think into the future but dogs can't. Do some feel a bit of fear because of the vet clinic and someone holding their leg, sure, but it's fantasy to believe they know they are going to die. So let's not scare people with misinformation. Oh - I'm not trying to scare people. I'm going on footage I have seen - for instance on that SBS show of the poor dogs in that pound who were obviously terrified and distressed - aware that something bad was happening to them, even though they did not understand it as "death" - no anecdote there. Of course not all pounds are like that one and vet surgeries would be very different. I am sorry if I have distressed anyone who have had to go through the experience of having their beloved dog PTS by a caring vet.

The concept of their own imminent death or that of an owner or another dog perhaps? I would suspect that there is a huge amount of irrefutable evidence that dogs understand when an owner, or another animal that they live with, is dying or has died. Dogs do grieve, do they not? As with any mammal in particular, they also understand when their own life is in danger and react accordingly, using the flight or fight response. In regards to this particular situation, it is a shame that the son chose to follow his mother's wishes. People who know they are dying do not always make rational decisions, just as people who are not dying also can make stupid decisions. In my opinion, this woman's decision was not entirely different to people who choose to have a fairly young and healthy dog put down for other nefarious reasons. Yes - ask any person involved in killing dogs in pounds and shelters. I suspect they know exactly what is about to happen to them. The airy fairy idea that this dog did not "suffer" in any way before being killed is just denial of the reality IMO.

This is done more often than you think. I know of many breeders who have left an option open for an undesexed bitch in a Pet home to come back and have a litter if the new owner wishes. Some even show dogs that live full time in family homes, in my opinion there isn't much difference between a well cared for house dog and a Show dog. At least I believe there shouldn't be. :) I am curious as to why a pet owner would agree to keep a dog under these conditions - is it very common? On the surface it would appear that it only benefits the breeder - what benefit to the pet owner. Unless they are getting the dog for free and the breeder is picking up all vet expenses etc its hard to understand why anyone would do it?

Exactly. If a person with a terminal illness wants the dog put down then it should be done by them while they are still capable rather than put such a terrible burden on loved ones. I simply could not do it. But, I would tell the person so when the request was made and try to convince them that rehoming would be in the best interest of the animal if it was young and healthy - both physically and mentally. If such a request was made in a will and the Executor did not carry it out then I suspect there would have to be a complaint made for any legal follow up to occur. Even then I can't see where any court would impose a penalty where the animal was young and healthy and happily rehomed. I think it would be considered a reasonable decision to have made with the animal's welfare being the first consideration.

I use vinegar too - it seems to be the best. What sort of surface is it? Is it possible that the odour has not been totally eliminated - very difficult if it is carpet as it seeps in. If it is a hard surface I would clean it thoroughly with vinegar, dry it off and cover it over with a mat. Is it possible to gate him off from that spot for a while? It sounds like it is just a habit he has developed - just need to break the pattern!

I must say I find some people's responses in this thread odd - some of the same people who attacked others in a different thread when it was suggested that the particular dog in question - who is suffering - be PTS. Yet in this case - a young healthy dog who would appear to be very suitable for rehoming - it is OK? Very confusing

So you don't think that a dog may have some awareness of what is about to happen to them in that final moment? I have heard differently - that the dog does have some sense of impending death when being PTS. I can see where people would think it cruel.

Chucky would scare the bejeezus out of Kenny & Cougar. I have a 4 inch high Kyle figurine from South Park, when you press the button it says, *you bastard, you killed Kenny*. Kenny was terrified of it & used to run out of the room. I know, I was a naughty mummy to tease him, but it was bloody hilarious. Maybe we should let Chucky loose on the R$PCA as payback for all the dogs this vile pack of bastards have murdered. I wonder if poor Clifford the pitbull had a doll shoved in front of him before he too was murdered. :mad Yes - shove Chucky in front of them when they least expect it and if they try to avoid him its a FAIL no second chance for you!!

Consider too how much time the dog will be left alone in the apartment. Cavaliers are not a breed I would get if I worked long hours and it would be left alone - and I agree about poodles and separation anxiety. Perhaps they could have a look on the Pet Rescue site to see if anything appeals? Body Corporates do often have an under 10kg rule as well.

I think it is a bit harsh to be presuming major behavioural issues etc because they seem a bit naive. Many new dog owners are. They just need a "bombproof" dog - which means they need to be very careful if they choose a rescue dog. Maybe go for a dog in foster care whose behaviour can be observed as being suitable for their needs. Or perhaps they could offer to foster a little dog for a period of time to familiarise themselves with the realities of ownership? Who knows they may turn out to be wonderful owners - and many dogs adapt to apartment living just fine.

Definitely Qld - I think Bundaberg? Loving the pictures of dogs with their dollies :D Just to add, I don't think because some report or study somewhere advocates the use of this test that it should be taken as gospel. There can always be "research" found to support any supposition but when it defies common sense and a sense of fairness I don't buy it. I lost faith in the RSPCA a while ago after seeing some questionable things happen on the rescue show and after reading about the treatment of the cavalier mum and pups in a previous thread.

I blame the family more than the poor woman - faced with death and perhaps not thinking rationally at all. The think the cruelty comment was more related to the fact that the dog was healthy and would have had many good years left. I don't believe that because it was a guide dog that it was only capable of bonding to one person. If dogs are old or infirm I can understand an owners wish to PTS on their death but a dog in this situation - no. The threats to the family are just typical of society's vigilante mindset these days.