zoiboy

Oh but Maremma Sheepdogs are dangerous !!! all stated after patting and cooing over the self same dog who is demanding pats and treats for the last half hour.

Today was Maremma day and here are a few videos of the day Dog challange was given to Chincona Magic Dragon at his first show. http://youtu.be/M9CRZ-ghA2c http://youtu.be/aZfxJgCX9js

I wrote to the CPMA and asked for an official rendition of what is expected in Italy by the CPMA and here is the reply. CPMA - Circle of Maremma-Abruzzese Shepherd www.cpma.it Secretariat: Antonio Grasso Via Santa Barbara, 86 / A 83031 Ariano Irpino (AV) Tel +39 334.1012495 Fax +39 082.5873046 On-line: Mauro Di Fonzo Via Chieti, 67046 9 Santa Jona Ovindoli (AQ) Tel +39 348.8525806 Fax +39 1786052507 Hi Linda, Therefore, is absolutely false that here in Italy the dogs did not touch during the expo, on the contrary are checked teeth, testicles, back, everything the dog; Dogs must not show fear at the time when the judge comes to touch and not have it run much less to hide behind the master. the CPMA Italy has fought for this very aspect of the dog, or the character, and today we can say that 99% of dogs who go to expo, do not give character issues, thanks also to 'introduction by the Circle of Test Morphological character (TMC), where the dogs are subjected to a series of tests to see their reactions and assess if they have character issues. In addition to the control of dysplasia of 'Hip (HD) and elbow (ED) you run a test reaction to a shot, move the dog gets close to moving objects (banners, envelopes, etc. ..), gets passed the dog between two / three and a group of people and gets encircle by the same to evaluate the reaction under these conditions, is weighed, and the dog are measured heights, circumferences of the chest, head, length etc. ... This is to say that the dog touches and maybe even more ..... Propose to the Board of Directors to issue an official statement signed by our CLUB can spread to Australia to avoid errors in this regard. Meanwhile, I invite you to watch the video of the TMC to this link to see what it is: or http://www.cpma.it/videogallery.php?sez2=6&idev1=336 A resent, thanks for your cooperation, Sincerely for CPMA Mauro Di Fonzo

and the Maremma Sheepdog Please.

GOOD LUCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Haredown Whippets has stated my thoughts beauifully. I am not so different from Steve or Tralee in that I am very passionate about my breed and I do not want to hear the stories I hear all to often about how they are bad tempered, dirty, untouchable, and just revolting. My own dogs are not like this and while I work hard to change this perception I feel a bit hamstrung at times by missconseptions.

Here we have a young dog I bred, he has NOT been exposed to children much but seems to revel in their company, he had not so much as seen a chook until he was nearly 4. He now lives with and guards chooks, has done for over 12 months now. He has not hurt a chook or lost a chook since he took the job on. This is what it's all about for me. Ps I give up on this photo, it's either not here or here twice

I have 2 here that have that social, outgoing temperament & their main downfall is that they lack work ethic, they would far rather be socialising (with their humans) than working (with their flock). Asking because among stock people who use these dogs only as workers (& they are never likely to see a showring), it is accepted as truth that "the friendly dogs won't/don't work". In my admittedly limited experience this has been pretty well borne out - are they more the exception than the rule? I think a lot depends on the dog, the situation, and your expectations. The first question I would ask about your dog is..... Do you loose stock to predation?

how could they protect their flock if they were corralled with their humans? isn't night time when there is the most danger? Generally speaking, the folds we came across were to hold the sheep over night, the small caravans were the sheperd's homes and the dogs generally remained out side and loose. The national parks had folds, flocks, herds of cattle and dogs all over them. We were approached by PMA every where we went and they were generally lovely calm dogs. The only dogs we noticed that were *corralled* were those that were not generally safe :)

The idea that they can be abandoned on some endless sheep farm and fed with a hopper is an abuse, particular to Australia. But no surprises there. END QUOTE RUBBISH this was in fact started by Ray Coppinger when he set up the Hampshire project. Traditional methiods had no place in how the Americians wished the dogs to work. Since this was the only info in english it has become ingrained as *best practice*

[quote name=' I have read the same from LIlli on this forum about some of her dogs. I understand the presence of a lot of strange dogs can also be challenging for some livestock guardians. I'd have thought that's something you'd not want to discourage in a working breed. I have not yet had the pleasure of visiting Crufts but my understanding is that the sheer size of the event and the mass of the public would be stressful for some dogs, perhaps even dogs that are fine at smaller shows. I don't necessarily think that a show of that magnitude is going to show case every individual dog well. I'd be picking my Crufts dogs as carefully as I picked any show prospect. You'd need them bombproof. I have been lucky in that I have had a few over the years that are bomb proof and just brilliant to take out and about or showing. They certianly were brilliant and even to some extent social. At home or in the car was a VERY DIFFERENT kettle of fish. this tends to apply to them all tho to greater and lesser extents

HERE HERE !! This is what I have been attempting to say all along........... I have a few that have no interest in even humoring my wish for them to be show dogs. Does not mean they are lesser quality, just mean's they are not fond of shows. If I like em enough and they have good hip, elbow, eye and thyriod scores then I just may use them to breed and will definatly find them a job.

Oh YES You have put into lovely words just what I was attempting to say. Far to many people sell the breeds short by *thinking* they can ONLY do one thing or the other. I have had and have met a great many who were really good at working, really good to show and also to take to things like Italian Festivals. Same dogs can do it all and do it well. In fact I would say that the most social dogs have in fact been the best guardians.

Thanks Rebanne, I am pleased some one does :))).

Ahhh I am not saying that there is only 1 correct temperament at all. A range of softer to harder to down right *strong* is to be expected. However I am passionate about yhe breed and to have ANYONE touting that fearful is correct in a Maremma is just plain wrong and so far from the reality in general. Shy dogs may well have a place in some working packs but they should not have a place in a breeding program.

no the dogs in the video's are not *just pets* they all are suitable for and perform jobs other than show dogs. (ie; with stock or poultry). i am NOT saying that any of these dogs are brilliant excamples of the breed either. Just attempting to prove that Maremma can be good working dogs and polite in a show situation.

and here is some video taken at the sydney royal, perhaps the year before last Most seem to *tolarate* the judgeing quite well.

here is a link that *may* interest some. The maremma is 16 moths old and at his 3 show ever.

As a Maremma owner and occasional excibitor I agree with you Reverend Jo. If a Maremma is to be shown it has to play by th rules, IE: be clean, well brushed and well mannered. I expect my dogs to work well but I do not expect them to be either overtly shy (as was the dog in the clip of Crufts) or overtly and uselesly aggressive. A well tempered Maremma should be calm, watchful and self assured. I liken it to having a personal body guard, the last thing you want is a body guard who will shoot any one or any thing that is in a 15 foot radius. The same of a Maremma. Oh I have titled 4, all had nice in group wins and an in show win for one bitch. 2 of these also have temperament test certificates from he testing that Carl Hergisterder did when he was out here teaching judges how to do this testing. All that said, I have dogs that I would no more show than fly in the air as they are not suited at all to showing.

How can you judge it fairly if you can't touch it? The simple answer is, you can not judge it fairly if you can not touch it. A good Maremma is s strong minded dog who is comfortable in his own skin and the BOB at Crufts this year is not.

I have watched it a few times and I agree with Espinay. The Maremma is not showing a sound temperament at all. Both the Anotialian and the Pyrenean are also flock guards and they behaved just the way a flock guard should behave in public. The Maremma has been around a long time and should have reasonable manners really. Sadly it is overtly shy, to the point of not holding it's ground. Behaviour aside he has flat feet, a pinched chest, round eye, a very short tail and a coat that is not as correct as it might be. Not a dog I would want watching my flock or as a companion.

My girls have a nice double bed mattress that has a waterproof/bug proof bag made by protector bed then a brilliant mattress cover that is water proof and has a zip off top, fits like a sheet and is changed mornning and evening. The bitches seem very happy with the arrangment.

CONGRATULATIONS to all the connections of Mistraka Vannessa Williams !!!! That is a super job getting a group 3rd !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheers Linda

No trouble at all. I hope your friend has good luck!!

I have had a dog collected in the last month at Rocky Ridge (got 3 breeding units) and also have a bitch in whelp now after a surgicial AI with imported semen.