zoiboy

http://www.leadingsheep.com.au/2012/09/guardian-animals-protecting-livestock-maremmas/ This is a long listen but really interesting. It was very interesting that Ninnian mentioned, in answer to a question, that he culls pups with pink pigment from the working population and gives a great reason why.

"Freedom of Information" isn't all that easy either. I worked on a matter that required information via Freedom of Information and I had to shell out something in the vicinity of $300.00 (if I remember correctly). It certainly wasn't "free". All well and good if I had a spare several $M dollars to dip into as the RSPCA has. Not only is the infomation far from free, it is also dependant on the *other party* agreeing that you can indeed have the infomation. I have applyed for, and paid the fee for, such infomation, only to have it arrive with all manner of blacked out infomaton.

Have you had the stethascope out to listen to poopie hearts going a mile a min yet? Oh I do like that bit !!!! GOOD LUCK and HEALTHY Grace and Baby's

I've found similar - they don't need to be born in a paddock with their stock to develop into good workers - I think it was Espinay who pointed out that lots of rescues (who may never have been with stock) also achieve this. It is a pretty individual thing from dog to dog. Most of what I've learned about working LGDs has been through trial & error, as you receive a lot of conflicting advice. I made lots of mistakes with my 1st couple of dogs but we got there in the end - it's a big learning curve and so very different from training a dog for the showring, obedience or herding (which is all I'd ever done). What you say about finding the key to each puppy is so true (I also have a racist dog - he loathes red goats but loves his standard coloured ones :) ) - different strengths in individual dogs will help decide where they are best placed in a working situation. One of my boys is a brilliant "big paddock" dog - he patrols really efficiently, likes having lots of space & is quite forceful in his job. I have another girl who is just sheer magic with kidding does in a smaller lot - she's exceptionally gentle with the babies & knows before I do who is getting ready to birth. They will let you know what sort of a workload they are happy and comfortable with. I still get a kick out of watching them with their charges, they have favourites that they get attached to which is pretty cute & they will scold naughty ones. The way they coordinate when there is a threat is awesome - I have 3 boys that have worked together for a few years now & the teamwork is incredible, 1 drops back with the flock, the other 2 streak across the paddock - all it takes is that "danger" bark. In my experience, as pups you need to "set them up to succeed" & not put them in a position where things can really go wrong - so long as the instinct/ability is there, lots of opportunity, encouragement when they do well & some patience, is what will result in confident, dedicated working LGDs. This is where we need a LIKE button. There is nothing to add to this post, it speaks the truth in spades.

How about a Best Puppy In Show? Aust CH Lurgenglare Fratta was BPIS at the working dog show in Lancefield under Judge Mr R Lake (Can) at her very first dog show. Best of all her breeder was there to bepart of it and my dear friend Sandi came up for the day out. and a photo of Fratta and her sheeps.

First up THANK YOU EVERY ONE for your answers to my question. It is nice to get answers from (for the want of a better phrase) the end user of the pups we breed. Ok now I do not and have never required my personal dogs to go sit with the sheep or the horse 24/7. I DO require that all the dogs here are polite to said sheep and horse. This is quite different tho. Now I do have the ability to help with suggestions on training from experiance gained here and there. If I believe I am out of my depth (like with chooks) then I arrange for a breeder friend with extencive experiance in that area to help. I also realise that much is said about pups needing to be born and raised with the stock they will guard. I do not believe that to be the case at all for many reasons and different experiances. HOWEVER being able to work out what stock a pup will be happy with is the key. I have had FANTASTIC dogs that were quite racisist really. One would be happy with sheep and horses but HATED goats with passion and was under the impression that chooks were fast food. Others have been good with white chooks but not so good with brown or black chooks.. Go figger..... I LOVE observing and learning.

Sorry - I know it's OT but that is gold! I agree it's GOLD alright. I just about spat coffee on my new keyboard

It's always a tuff crowd here at DOL :laugh: and for the entertainment value only, here is a nice photo of 2 poopies, 1 sheeps and a daddy dog way down the back paddock in coventry.

:rofl: I should just let you brown nose a lot. BUT I am aware that is not how you mean to sound (or i hope it's not how you want to sound :laugh: ). all the way thu this thread you have been a voice of reason and common sence. Like you I do not wish to sound like I am brown noseing either. It has been nice to watch many members *say* what I am thinking tho

Lets play devils advicate for a minuite. tralee wants the heavy *Italian type* of dog to win in the ring. He also seems to want an OVER PROTECTIVE dog on his lead. Interesting combination this, in my mind. As a breeder, I want nice correct sound dogs with a ballanced outlook. I do hip, elbow, eye and thyriod testing on any I am dreaming of breeding with. If they pass then and only then I breed when it is going to fit in with the rest of my life. So far I have bred 4 litters and have been very happy with the resulting pups. I keep in touch with my poopie buyers and help if needed with advice. I happen to have an Italian dog (from lines that tralee admires so much) and while he is a fair size dog he is not the 80 kilo size range that some speak of. Far from it in fact. Having been to Italy and seen a few dogs while I was there I am not sure we are so far away from what the Italians are breeding. I am sure that for most of the year they have 3 or 4 times the amount of coat simply due to the weather. I think it is time to look at the dog UNDER all that hair really. All that said, for me personally it's all about ballance and working ability is a big part of that ballance. Now this is one of my last litter, Rusty is not only learning to be safe with our sheep but she is also learning to be a happy polite member of our little bit of the world. So what would the members here ike to see in their breeder?

If you can't see the point when you look at those dogs then why are you in here? Do you have Maremmas, yourself ? Wow...if this is an abassador for the breed then this breed is in trouble Far to true unfortunatly

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: CONRATULATIONS he looks STUNNIN

THANK YOU THANK YOU I rememer the elk thread and just love the reread and the link

:rofl: :rofl: perché le cose non cambieranno c'mom you two, don't go all tralee on us who don't speak the lingo :laugh: try this Rebanne, it works a treat for those of us who do NOT speak the lingo http://translate.google.com.au/#auto/it/because%20things%20will%20not%20change

:rofl: :rofl: perché le cose non cambieranno

I don't know what tralee is on aout but I can not see anyone actually suggesting that the standard be changed to suit that pup. or for that matter any other single dog. methinks tralee is looking for amusment in the form of a war of words.

Well there you go I don't listen to 2GO so I would love a reminder next year :) I think we should promote it big time next year so more coasties know about it, we'll see what we can do :) I don't much either and after actually manageing to be *in the wrong place at the right time* and seeing sarha king, I will not listen again :)). Her daughter is in need of good dog manners, falling on strange dogs to cuddle is not wise and when it was very kindly pointed out that she should ask permission we were advised, she is used to big dogs. I think that both sarha and her daughter need better manners. THat was the only bad moment at all tho. I will let you know next year when it's on.

AWWWWW Thanks, I am pretty fond of the guys and do quite enjoy the festival weekend with them. Saturday was wet and we all hid under cover as much as possible. It was quite busy really in spite of the weather. The fesitval is on every year in April, I had to send one of my dogs with our friend Pamela last year as I was home holding Freya's paw while she looked for all the world like she was going to give birth any min. Anyway the festival was advertised on 2go and a newcastle station as well as nbn. Perhaps I can put a thread about it up here as well next year?

I thought the role was about being an agent - so when a person changes details on a pedigree its changed on the data base etc. There is no way there would be a possibility of two chip registries. It may not be a good idea to have 2 chip registries bUT the case is that nation wide we have 8 or 9 registaries so far. It would seem to me that if the NSW CAR registriy was made available to DogsNSW then it could well work a treat??

No Spinone or Lagotto Romagnolo or for that matter any Neo's either. I do not know if any were invited either. I have suggested it in past years. The Pastore Maremmano Abruzzese have been invited each year and we have always been happy to attend. This photo is the most magnificant Aust CH Abruzzo (imp ita) and his son Cesco at the first festival.

Thanks Espinay, it was a lovely weekend (even if it did rain cats and dogs all day saturday) and the pups had a nice time shmoozing, especially, Grifone who rather enjoyed meetin this daxie, another Maremma who was a local (and was on tv with us). For me it's all about talking urbanites out of owning a PMA. Grif's over all size helps Oh and it was a reat op to speak with a local politition aout that white paper. I tell you that has been a well kept secret.

I am proud to say that Freya and Grif went to the Italian Festival last weekend and were the PERFECT ambassador's for the festival and their breed. Not only were they FANTASTIC with the public they come home and look after their horse as well. I do have permission from the parents of the small girls to use the photo.

I agree with Steve and Espinay as well. Having a dog with a fault is not actually serious, it's how you use the knowladge gained. We have all had or bred a dog we would rather had been better or sounder or some such. how we use that to move forward. Just to give an *awwww* factor, here are Freya and Grif with brand new fans yesterday as we went back to the Italian Festival

Yes at the moment (as far as i know) they only require hips and elbows. This is a BIG STEP forward for the Italians as they have been ignoring hips elbows and stuff for a while :)