Her Majesty Dogmad

Melzawelza, I think you will find that I did not start the bull breed debate in this thread however I will respond when attacked and that is fair enough.

And Melzawelza, you have also decided to ignore the main issues of my original post, to push your own barrow. Try and comprehend the first post - the post was about people buying breeds that were not suitable for their level of knowledge, a breeder selling two siblings, the owners not putting any effort into training etc or getting desexed and then it ends in disaster. As I have said, it could have been two Jack Russells but it wasn't, it was Am Staffs. I'm not going to lie to appease you and all the other bull breed fanatics. The negatives here were not the breed but the owners and the breeder.

You are still missing my point. However, yes, there was a large bull breed cross a few houses down from mine that created a real problem last year. It got out when granny opened the gate to put the bin out - the dog was dog aggressive, it's why it's original owner was getting rid of it and passed it on to my well meaning but clueless neighbours. I didn't even know the dog was there. It wasn't trained and was very strong. New owners were terrified of walking it so it never got out of the yard for a year or two. This dog attacked a boy walking his poodle and then someone else walking their dog. Council drove round for 2 days looking for the dog. It was eventually found and euthanased as the owners couldn't comply with the dangerous dog containment requirements. I dodged a bullet that couple of days, the dog attacked the other dogs exactly where I walked. For some reason I decided on another route that day. I don't just imagine that my dogs might be attacked by loose dogs - they have been, several times over but by working breeds. As you don't own small dogs I am sure you can't see my dilemma. I am not prepared to take even 2 dogs out on the lead past the houses I know that cannot contain their dogs. The fact that they are bull breeds isn't the point. If they decide to attack - which of my dogs am I going to leave on the ground? It's not a situation I am prepared to risk - would you? You are also ignoring the fact that I'm tired of people telling me their dogs have been attacked by a staffy or pitbull type. The foster carer I had in 2011 who was walking along the road when a Pitbull rushed her and ripped her Whippet's chest open, costing $2000 in surgery and an enormous amount of pain and distress. This was in Canberra. I'm sorry you find my posts so repetitive - personally I think you are blowing it all out of proportion and are hypersensitive - why I don't know. Like I say, if it doesn't happen, I won't be making it up. This is a public forum, we are all entitled to share our opinions, stories and the like - that's what it's here for. As for most of my posts denigrating bull breeds - hardly, that really is an exaggeration. Put me on ignore if it bothers you but if I feel like sharing a story, whether it's about a Schnauzer, an Afghan, Greyhound or Staffy, then I will.

I'm currently studying and one of the areas we look at is accidents. For every actual reported accident/incident in human terms, they estimate that 600 other events have occurred that haven't been reported. I know that many incidents in the dog world don't get reported, people don't know that they should report it to council, the other owner takes off or offers to pay for the vet bills, the dog isn't seriously injured and so on. When I look at the temp assessments of the bull breed types in the pounds - granted I am not looking at every single pound in Australia - but am looking at NSW, VIC and even overseas, there are quite a lot of them that don't present that well with other dogs. I talk to people most days - from all over Australia - looking to adopt dogs or foster. There's not many that haven't had some sort of issue with a bull breed type. No amount of posts saying there's no problem will convince me that there isn't. The people aren't telling me their stories because I've prompted them, they come up in the conversations. This thread wasn't about bull breeds - I deliberately did not put the breed in the title because I suspected what would follow if I did and guess what? So very predictable.

he's a dreamboat!! what a character - someone will be lucky to get themselves a giant lap dog :D

very sad news, poor little guy - this is the worst of it in rescue, the dog finally has a chance at a happy life when he/she has suffered for so long and it's too late. those are the real rescue heartbreaks, hugs to you and thank you for doing everything you could and making his last weeks happy.

Congratulations on all the hard yards you've put in to achieve a fantastic pet. You are so right that proper training is what many owners just don't do, it's vital if you are going to have any dog but especially a larger breed. Noone likes being hauled along the road and yet they often don't seem to equate that as an issue that they should have fixed with some proper training!

But there really isn't, when you take into the account how many 'bull breeds' [we're talking about a few breeds and, I assume, crosses here] there are that are never a problem and don't make the headlines. I'd love to see accurate statistics that show this country has a major problem with bull breeds, as opposed to a major problem with education and community safety. Every dog, of any breed, attracts incompetent and irresponsible owners. Yes, bull breeds are very popular in general. And the fact they're not in the news multiple times a day attacking someone or something just shows how the majority of owners are capable, educated, and well equipped, and how the majority of dogs are not a problem. We have to remember that bull breeds and their crosses [again, so many breeds in that] aren't some magical unicorn species of the dog world that need extra special ownership. They are dogs, first and foremost. What people need to look at is individual dogs within breeds that may need specific environments and owners. There's no point looking at the pounds to tell us where there's a problem. A huge percentage of dogs in the pounds are crossbreeds of unknown genetics. And then there's the fact a huge percentage of crossbreeds in the pounds are happy, friendly, well-adjusted dogs that go on to find homes, which clearly shows the problem was never with the dog in the first place. So no, I don't believe we have a major problem with bull breeds in this country. I also don't believe we have a major problem with dangerous dogs, considering the percentage of attacks across the board is so low. Don't waste your time PlanB, some posters on here have an agenda & will continue to bash Bull Breeds. If you call not sticking my head in the sand an agenda, then I agree. You will always think that I'm bashing Bull Breeds because you take everything so personally. I have a Jack Russell here - they are not the easiest or most well behaved dogs in the world, I'll be the first to admit it. I could say she'd never kill a rat but I'd be lying, a rat would not be safe in her company. However she poses zero danger to any other dog.

My Italian appeared to live peaceably with my Budgie for 6 months and then one day he took his chance. I've never recommended having dogs with birds since. It was totally my fault for wearing rose tinted glasses.

Perhaps I can put someone in touch with you to discuss this situation Plan B because they really don't see it in the same way, you could try and convince them but they've already had too many bad experiences. They, like many people I speak to, are amazed at the popularity of the bull breeds, so many of whom are not that great with other dogs. They are equally shocked by the people who seem not to worry about them being off the lead. I've just met them for the first time, they are perm. residents from another country and own small dogs but are having to move away from a particular area due to all the dog problems, mainly bull breed types. I'm not making it up for the hell of it, I seriously wish it wasn't true.

I'm not so interested in the breed but more the characteristics. You want a bullet proof, calm, older dog. When I had my first Italian with separation anxiety, I went searching for another small dog - to see if the right dog would calm him down. The worst thing I could have done for him would have been to get a young and springy, excitable Foxy or similar. I adopted a 9 yr old Border Terrier cross. Initially they ignored each other but she had a calm and reassuring presence. My Iggy was always sick and in the vets, often for a surgery, the vets found he was very highly strung and anxious. The vets were astonished that he was a different dog when Dixie was with him (she had to go in for a dental once and they went together) so from then on, Dixie always went into the vets with him. He would never walk down the road on the lead unless Dixie was with him! She was his safety blanket. Greyhounds are wonderful dogs, I'd recommend that you get one that has been in foster care and is well known as some can have sep anx and you don't want to double your trouble. You could also ask the day care people if there is one particular kind of dog that Roo is drawn to, ie smaller than her, fluffy and so on, what does she seem to like in a friend and then try and match that too. There's a lot to think about!

You could check with the RSPCA, they have a program in NSW to help people in these situations. I was recently approached to help a mentally ill gentleman who was also about to become homeless. He had two treasured little dogs and had gone on a waiting list for government housing. He did not want to give the dogs up. I spoke to the RSPCA and they have the resources and organisation to run a program for people in that situation, looking after the dogs so that the person has a chance to get themselves set up and back in a position to take the dogs. In the end it turned out to be the very best option for him, he's able to visit whereas if the dogs had come into Sydney, he would have been so far away. For many people it would be easier if they had a cat, I understand they need company - I couldn't bear to be without an animal myself but a cat is a lot easier to cope with and doesn't need walking. People can go and feed the cat but young dogs need a lot more. Doesn't sound like this lady has the right situation for these dogs, you need a lot of support from friends and family if you are physically unable to meet all the needs of young dogs yourself. They certainly shouldn't be in a situation where they can get out.

I hope they can find local care before resorting to sending interstate ...

Wondering if anyone is in that area who could do a homecheck for a small PAWS dog please? Thanks in advance!

What a disgrace, whoever owned that place and/or ran it should end up with a severe punishment for cruelty to so many animals. In one picture I saw it looked like one of the dogs - possibly a Japanese Chin - was blind. Filthy pigsty of a place and they were probably raking in thousands of dollars.

What I'd like to know is whether bull breeds are getting better or worse over time, and if they are getting worse or not improving, whether the bad element is concentrated in some lines. I am no expert on bull breed history, but it does seem to me that the average temperament has probably gotten more social since the days when dogfighting and bull and bear baiting were popular sports. If the bad name is coming from, say 10% of the individuals, and the temperament problems are concentrated in certain lines, the solution is to regulate the problem lines, not the entire breed(s). The Staffy is neck and neck with the Labrador for numbers of pedigree registrations in Australia. I can't believe SBTs would be that popular if most of them were inherently problematic. Many people know little or anything about the dogs they pick. I speak to people regularly in my rescue work and one of the common things I'd told by the owners of Staffies is that they were picked because they were great with people. People haven't thought to worry about whether or not the dog is good with other dogs and rock up to the dog park .... Most people are normal dog owners, they don't always have enough experience to know what to look for in a dog. This is why there is so much dumpage of dogs generally, because people didn't know that the lovely border collie they picked wouldn't be happy sitting in a garden 24/7. The pounds are full of bull breeds and crosses thereof, maybe it's because their owners didn't know they'd need good fencing and can't or won't fix it, I'd be interested in some research being done.

I state again, as per my previous post, that I take each dog on face value - I actually wanted to adopt one a few years ago for instance. But sorry, you have to admit there IS a major problem with bull breeds - especially when they seem to be attracting a lot of incompetent and irresponsible owners - and it needs to be acknowledged and managed, somehow. They have become extremely popular and many are not that great with other dogs. I'm surrounded by people with them who don't have gates, any or high enough fencing and walk them off the lead - even those who have shown dog on dog aggression. I have plenty of anecdotes and stories that I don't even bother to share but I thought this was an important story - and it's not all about the fact that they were bull breeds. If they'd been JRTs I would have relayed the same story. The only difference is that I wouldn't be getting all the personal attacks.

or you could drop them into Renbury Pound?

Why would I be disappointed? How incredibly immature of you! Snide much? I think it is a very sad case indeed. I have never said you made this up - I did say I thought the owners was telling porky pies, as I honestly didn't believe that a 6 month old pup would be capable of doing enough damage to require the sort of surgery you described in your initial post - I have since realised that is entirely possible based on others experience. I have personally never seen a 6 month old pup do that sort of damage. I stand corrected... Glad you now understand - you did not have enough experience to judge the situation. I am not snide but I get very p----d off when certain people start accusing me of lying (or spreading secondhand lies from an owner) because I'm relaying a story to do with bull breeds. Other posters on this thread have done the same previously so may they all stand corrected.

Small world Malamum. Staffluv will be disappointed that you can verify this sad story as she likes to think I make these things up for some reason. :)

By standing in front of my dogs and growling is how I've stopped most dogs but not all. I did this on Christmas Day would you believe, no one around, I had 3 of my littlies on a lead in a local park when suddenly an old guy appeared with his dog and just let it off the lead. It was a very large black GSD/Kelpie type dog. It came running at 100mph towards us, ears down. I did the usual, he didn't even call his dog. The dog turned round and went back to him and because it was Christmas and the dog was still off lead - I said "can you please put your dog on the lead". At which point, he threatened me with physical violence and became menacing. Stupidly i'd left the mobile at home as who'd expect this on Christmas Day?? I told him I was calling the police and he backed off whilst I fumbled in my bag .... I was extremely lucky. This story is horrific and i'm afraid it isn't good for Staffies - can you imagine having to anaesthetise a dog to get it to let go of another dog??? Reading the descriptions of dog attacks by bull breed types, this seems to be a common thread - kicking, punching and using implements doesn't make them let go.

I think he only went about a week ago, don't know who the CEO of AWL is now.

Good to see that Tim's already making a difference, good on him!

Great news!

It isn't so much that it is about bull breeds - we all know there are dangerous dogs out there and unfortunately a large proportion seem to be bull breeds (owned by idiots).. I think Mantis's point is more the fact that if your read back over DMs posts - it seems to be that the majority of her threads are about some bull breed or other and all the bad they do. Never has she posted about other breeds and deeds - just bull breeds. No offence intended DM - it is just how I read your stuff and I dare say a lot of other do as well. It appears obvious that you don't like them and that is fine (no one said you had to. No offence taken Mantis. Bull breeds are very popular these days, this wasn't always the case - I worked at the AWL for 3 years in the late 1990s and only saw 1 purebred staffy (who was a most wonderful dog) and a handful of staffy crosses (1 of whom I wanted to adopt but couldn't find anywhere to rent with a dog). I have posted about other breeds, I help owners rehome all types of dogs, including the odd bull breed. I've been attacked by bull breed lovers for saying anything negative about this type of dog. I can't predict what people are going to do, or the stories they are going to tell me or what I'm going to find of interest. If it was a greyhound I'd relate the same story - I love greyhounds but am completely aware of their shortcomings. Whilst I am prepared to take every dog on its own merits, I constantly have people telling me they've had problems with bull breeds, it seems that too many owners don't understand what their dog is capable of or are uninterested in managing their dog. And for the record, I'm not keen on Rottweilers either, having had more than one terrifying experience with that breed (different dogs) but I hardly see them. On the other hand, I'm completely surrounded by people who own bull breeds and let them wander and it has definitely made my life very difficult.