BCNut

Hi everyone For sale I have my 6 sets of 2x2 weavers - happy to sell all 6 together or 2 sets of 3. They are from Gadget Fabrications, they are high quality powder coated and well looked after, comes with original bag, pegs etc. Had minimal use and are competition standard. http://www.gadgetfab...nt/weavers.html $100 for 3 sets or $200 for all 6. Cant remember how much I paid, but certain this is a bargain. Prefer to sell in SA for pickup/dropoff reasons but don't be shy if you're interstate should be able to work something out.

I know some of you will find this interesting...also posted in studies topic. Summary of recent findings in ongoing study into brain activity in non-anaesthetised dogs. MRI scans suggest higher levels of cognitive functioning and emotional intelligence than previously thought. LINK

Summary of recent findings in ongoing study into brain activity in non-anaesthetised dogs. MRI scans suggest higher levels of cognitive functioning and emotional intelligence than previously thought. LINK

The pup class is a great idea! :) Wish there was something like that here. Good luck I got 'The Focused Puppy' from agilityclick.com which is in QLD. They have a fair bit of stuff on there its pretty good :)

Have you seen it Sheena? Any good?

My 6mth BC female pup tried the same thing, pushing the 1.5yr boy out the way when I was patting him. I just nudged her back out the way and put my body in between the two with my back turned to the pup, worked a treat. If you've decided to keep him entire for a while, as I did with my boy, you may find a spike in frantic sniffing, marking and selective hearing. But as mentioned earlier, every pup is different. Good luck

Whitka, I would highly recommend 'Shaping Success' by Susan Garrett - a book that describes the training of an agility dog from pup through adulthood. All the exercises can be done with an older dog, I use it for both my 1.5yr dog and 6mth one. Very popular amongst agility people.

Oops wrong topic...too many windows open

Build a good history with the toy too; get your tug game rules down pat in close quarters first - make it really fun and give it structure; 1) If you touch me, game ends 2) When I say out (or your release toy command), game ends 3) Only tug when I say tug. As for handing the toy over, play a game called 'Tug and out'. Place the dog in a sit. Dangle to the toy around him at a distance that isn't going to drive him too crazy if he's new to impulse control, when he's showing restraint mark with a 'yes' and release to tug with a word such as 'tug'. Play for a few moments. Before he escalates too far, stop tugging and moving altogether and put a piece of his dinner kibble on his nose and as he releases give your verbal cue for releasing a toy such as 'drop'. Give him the kibble. Then start again...keep it short and fun, get really excited and animated as this will engage him more. Be sure to fade the kibble as soon as you can so he does not become dependant on being fed to spit out a toy. This way he should be very focused on the toy when you release him to it and the toy should only have value if you are holding it which will help encourage him to bring it straight to you. Having the toy to a line is very effective in this context because, if you reel the toy in and he drops it, it will 'come alive' and keep moving along the ground - encouraging him engage his prey drive and chase the toy to pick it up again. Also when he keeps hold of it he will feel you pulling the line in and come in your direction for a game.

Something I found really useful for working with toys as rewards was Susan Garrett's 1-2-3 game. Tie a piece of string or thin rope (depending on how strong your dog is ;) a few metres long to your tug toy. Place your dog in a sit-stay or drop-stay and throw the toy out a metre or so to start with. Count out 1-2-3 then 'Get it!' or similar - when your dog gets to the toy, run the other way so that he chases you with the toy in his gob then have a game of tug with him. The rope is there for early stages if he decides to entertain himself with the toy, you can reel him in Great for impulse control and showing that reinforcment happens with you, not elsewhere :) Also this skill becomes really important and useful for things like tunnel training, driving out of obstacles and 2x2 weave pole training :)

Congrats RMR :) Good on you for getting out there and giving it a go - and it sounds like you did very well :)

Similar to Kavik, at home I use the dry biscuits that would otherwise be the dog's dinner, as the distractions become greater i'll switch to a 'lucky dip' of cheese/fritz/kabana. The higher value stuff is useful too if you want to increase the challenge of a task i.e. 'its yer choice'. Also kept a bag of freeze dried liver treats in the tree near the toilet spot for toilet training which is handy because they're always there, never go off and they're a bit more exciting than biscuits.

I've recently done a bit of a dog club crawl across SA. There's many different approaches...most are flexible enough in that, if you didn't want to use food that would be fine. Same goes for not wanting your dog taken from you. If you were thinking of joining a club I would do as you have been doing and 'tourist' as many as you like until you find one that is flexible enough to consider your training needs. I've heard also that Para district is good but have not visited...closer to the city there is CBS (canine behavioural school) at Trinity Gardens (more food focus but very flexible in their students training needs) and down south Dover Gardens is great (less food focused). Not a fan of the dog parks around here either, generally speaking. The other people offering other dogs treats stuff is just a doggy etiquette no no as far as im concerned, regardless of where it is. People should always ask first...

I think a common problem with people who only believe in +R is that it shows a lack of understanding of how you can practically apply the other quadrants. I've not ever met any trainer that can only train a dog with +R, it just is not possible. Yes, but one needs only stretch as far as -P. When used correctly, it is just as effective as +P. These are two examples at the utter extreme corners of the operant conditioning quadrant and by and far not my way of thinking at all. I don't know what the point you're trying to make here is? If it is lack of understanding that you see as the problem then education and awareness is the solution. If you are frustrated by the argument, then I suggest it may be you that has become emotive in that setting. Don't assume what I do and don't know. I understand completely the operation of an e-collar. I've used them before - I have an educated opinion. Otherwise I would not have engaged in this debate. How is it a disservice to elevate the status of the dog?

No, please, do elaborate. How is it that +R causes (or caused) physical scars? Please, I would like to hear of tangible examples where a check collar alone has saved a dog from euthanasia. No I guess they missed the memo - I guess they also missed the opportunity to be raised by an owner with a basic understanding of how canine behaviour works. Any methodology of training needs to be honed, yes. Inappropriate timing/reward placement etc can cause backward steps in +R training. But the onus is on the owner to seek appropriate instruction in relation to the application of the training. Also, the sentence highlighted in bold doesn't make sense.

Yes. I've only seen negative outcomes from dogs that are struck, screamed at, intimidated, collar corrected, and/or electrocuted. Short term interruptions of unwanted behaviour, yep absolutely belting or similar will stop a dog doing what its doing. Long term outcomes, a resounding no and more often than not a modification in the animal's behaviour that results in the next step in the aggression continuum being taken. We should all know on here that a canine will pair negative environmental stimuli a lot easier than that of positive, unfortunately. Sometimes it only takes one exposure. I agree with what LBD says above, in that, the only basis for the argument against aversive techniques should not be 'ZOMG CRUEL' - there are actual real risks and negatives to this training as outlined in said post and my previous arguments. Not that I am ignorant of cruelty to our best mates. Last year the Cambridge 'Declaration on Consciousness' made clear that animals as simple (in anatomical and physiological terms) as jellyfish are capable of possessing the same level of consciousness of humans. So anyone who alleges that e-collars are an appropriate means of indicating disagreement with a dog's decision to investigate a snake, or something on the other side of the fence - or anything for that matter should ask themselves if they think it is reasonable to strap one around the NECK (not HAND) of their own child to train them what they can and cannot investigate? Anthropomorphism you say? Yep. But the word has less and less significance in this context as more and more science emerges on ethology. For your consideration (Direct quotation with modified source formatting - full reference path: http://fcmconference.org/img/CambridgeDeclarationOnConsciousness.pdf): The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness* On this day of July 7, 2012, a prominent international group of cognitive neuroscientists, neuropharmacologists, neurophysiologists, neuroanatomists and computational neuroscientists gathered at The University of Cambridge to reassess the neurobiological substrates of conscious experience and related behaviors in human and non-human animals. While comparative research on this topic is naturally hampered by the inability of non-human animals, and often humans, to clearly and readily communicate about their internal states, the following observations can be stated unequivocally: The field of Consciousness research is rapidly evolving. Abundant new techniques and strategies for human and non-human animal research have been developed. Consequently, more data is becoming readily available, and this calls for a periodic reevaluation of previously held preconceptions in this field. Studies of non-human animals have shown that homologous brain circuits correlated with conscious experience and perception can be selectively facilitated and disrupted to assess whether they are in fact necessary for those experiences. Moreover, in humans, new non-invasive techniques are readily available to survey the correlates of consciousness. The neural substrates of emotions do not appear to be confined to cortical structures. In fact, subcortical neural networks aroused during affective states in humans are also critically important for generating emotional behaviors in animals. Artificial arousal of the same brain regions generates corresponding behavior and feeling states in both humans and non-human animals. Wherever in the brain one evokes instinctual emotional behaviors in non-human animals, many of the ensuing behaviors are consistent with experienced feeling states, including those internal states that are rewarding and punishing. Deep brain stimulation of these systems in humans can also generate similar affective states. Systems associated with affect are concentrated in subcortical regions where neural homologies abound. Young human and non- human animals without neocortices retain these brain-mind functions. Furthermore, neural circuits supporting behavioral/electrophysiological states of attentiveness, sleep and decision making appear to have arisen in evolution as early as the invertebrate radiation, being evident in insects and cephalopod mollusks (e.g., octopus). Birds appear to offer, in their behavior, neurophysiology, and neuroanatomy a striking case of parallel evolution of consciousness. Evidence of near human-like levels of consciousness has been most dramatically observed in African grey parrots. Mammalian and avian emotional networks and cognitive microcircuitries appear to be far more homologous than previously thought. Moreover, certain species of birds have been found to exhibit neural sleep patterns similar to those of mammals, including REM sleep and, as was demonstrated in zebra finches, neurophysiological patterns, previously thought to require a mammalian neocortex. Magpies in particular have been shown to exhibit striking similarities to humans, great apes, dolphins, and elephants in studies of mirror self-recognition. In humans, the effect of certain hallucinogens appears to be associated with a disruption in cortical feedforward and feedback processing. Pharmacological interventions in non-human animals with compounds known to affect conscious behavior in humans can lead to similar perturbations in behavior in non-human animals. In humans, there is evidence to suggest that awareness is correlated with cortical activity, which does not exclude possible contributions by subcortical or early cortical processing, as in visual awareness. Evidence that human and non- human animal emotional feelings arise from homologous subcortical brain networks provide compelling evidence for evolutionarily shared primal affective qualia. We declare the following: “The absence of a neocortex does not appear to preclude an organism from experiencing affective states. Convergent evidence indicates that non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non- human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.” * The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness was written by Philip Low and edited by Jaak Panksepp, Diana Reiss, David Edelman, Bruno Van Swinderen, Philip Low and Christof Koch. The Declaration was publicly proclaimed in Cambridge, UK, on July 7, 2012, at the Francis Crick Memorial Conference on Consciousness in Human and non-Human Animals, at Churchill College, University of Cambridge, by Low, Edelman and Koch. The Declaration was signed by the conference participants that very evening, in the presence of Stephen Hawking, in the Balfour Room at the Hotel du Vin in Cambridge, UK. The signing ceremony was memorialized by CBS 60 Minutes.

That's not at all what I base my theory on, its simply one piece of tangible evidence that these devices ARE misused EVERYDAY. I don't care how 'properly' you use your e-collar; the principle remains the same. It's aversive, just like a check chain and we now know, thanks to scientific literature, that these devices are no longer required in modern canine training. Anything you can do with an e-collar you can do utilising correct positive/progressive reinforcement techniques - without risking the side effects of aversive training. How does one utilise a farm dog when it has to be kept crated lest it get bitten by a snake? Herding of sheep and cattle rarely takes place with the dog at close enough quarters that the owner would see the snake before the dog did. We could potentially have snakes within a few metres of the house given we live on the back of bushland, I certainly won't be restricting my dogs from the backyard for the rest of their lives just in case. I'd much rather train avoidance if I could, infact we have two pet snakes and I'm quite tempted to do some training at home having read this thread, I don't have access to an e-collar but I'll look in to other options. I'm only suggesting they are crated in a safe place when appropriate supervision is not possible i.e. you are not home. If a working dog is working - they couldn't care less about a snake. If for some reason they do - all well trained sheepdogs must have a solid stop. This is where that comes in without the need for an e-collar. If the dog isn't actively on the stock, a solid recall will remove the dog from danger. Just like a lot of dog owners with minimal experience/exposure to canine training in general struggle with the application of corrections. Using an e-collar does not dismiss that consideration. I hear your argument that someone can be trained in the correct use of an e-collar, just like they can be trained in the correct application of +R. If a novice handler is going to be a bit sloppy with either technique, +R is going to be far safer with less potential for negative side effects and removes the temptation of using an aversive training tool as a crutch. The aversion training is used mainly in working dogs, like detection dogs and working dogs. So we lock them up during snake season? Bugger if you're up north where it's snake season all the time, those dogs will spend their entire lives in crates then. See above. Not what I was suggesting, only when they can't be supervised.

That's a clever rebuttal. Use your words. You are trying to stop the dog going near the snake. I understand the premise of the training. No amount of +P or +R will guarantee 100% protection from a snake. A snake will strike out if harassed. I attended a conference presented by a toxinology professor where snake behaviour was discussed and demonstrated at length. Snakes will pursue a threat if said threat is active - they are respondent to body language. The person on a bushwalk who shrieks and dances around gets bitten. The person who stands still and lets the snake slither by not a threat and is ignored. I know which one is more representative of a dog's behaviour when they find a new 'thing'. E-collars aren't a substitute for adequate guardianship of a dog and a solid 'leave it'. If you're a person that leaves your dog in the backyard of a snake infested area unsupervised whilst you're out - thats your business but the only way to truly be certain your dog will be safe is to leave him/her inside. Why is it just e-collars that people think can be mis-used? If the collar is being "pumped up" and causing the dog distress it is not being used properly. Abuse is in the user not the tool. End of story. 1) I never insinuated that e-collars were the only training tools that are misused. 2) A tool need not be abused to be inhumane. Wouldn't bet it on an e-collar either. I'd bet it on having a dog safely crated inside or the provision of adequate supervision.

I've watched my neighbours dog start out as what you would expect from a normal, high energy border collie cross pup and slowly but surely turned in a D-D and D-H aggressive bundle of nerves and energy from one of these devices. Whether they're used 'appropriately' (which I don't believe there is a humane application for e-collars - lets put one on your neck and pump it up) or not; it's just an excuse for being a lazy trainer and being half arsed in your approach to the keeping of dogs. Want your dogs to stay with you off leash? Use a long lead and proof your recalls in as many environments as you can. Want your dog to stay in your yard? Get your property fenced appropriately. I don't see how an e-collar can protect a dog from a snake. No e-collar can stop any wild animal from pursuing a dog.

I overexercised my border collie and made him super fit at a similar age - he just got harder and harder to wear out which is a battle you're never going to win with a BC. With my new border puppy, i've come to realise how effective training is to wear out a pup. The only exercise she gets is short supervised frolicks in the yard with my other dog. She is 6 months and hasn't been walked yet (apart from 5 mins here and there just working on loose lead at a conceptual level in different environments, slowly raising criteria) - and is just a pleasure to have at home. Use their breakfast/dinner biscuits and make them work for it. Theres lots of fun stuff to work on with a pup even if you're not planning on being obedience champion any time soon.

Agility newb here...can I ask what a 'WeeSaw' is?

Petstock antlers treated with preservatives maybe? Just a thought...haven't tried them...sounds delish :laugh: Frozen carrots have been good but she goes through several big hunks of carrot a day...would love a more permanent solution :p I've never lost so many 'teething' toys with my current pup! I'd love to know of a bombproof one. I've tried the nylabone flavoured fish...that lasted a few hours. I've heard the original nylabones are good?

Put him in a sit, treat in your hand, give him a wiff of it so he knows its there, make a fist with your hand and gently try and slide it under his paw you want him to target with. Hopefully he will paw at it = mark & reward. Gradually turn your fist over and open it until he is targeting the palm of your hand. Just another way of teaching hand targeting - doesn't work with all dogs - if they are really foody they will generally just try and munch/lick the treat out, or if you play 'its yer choice' he may take it as a cue to ignore the treat. But some dogs will try paw at your closed fist to get the food out, thats what you want :) Good luck hope it helps :)

Thankyou all! I'll drop Murray Tyler a line for a quote and will peruse clean run :)

What did they set you back if you dont mind me asking? Are they good quality? Sounds interesting...I wish I was a subscriber!