dogsaremyworld

I agree with some of the others - if someone is selling a dog as pet quality, this may mean that they do have small imperfections which stop them from being shown - but that does not mean that they will be any less a great dog with all the benefits of being pedigree. I would not reduce my pet price for a fault that would only affect it's show career - i.e the jaw. However, temperament is not a cosmetic issue, and you need to assess whether your family can adequately provide for that animal's issues. First you need to decide why the dog is timid - it could be breed specific, or a phase, and the way animal's are introduced to certain things. For example, it may just be a bit timid with the kid's because it is overwhelmed. If the issue is more severe I would not be selling the pup to a home with kids, or a first time dog owner, and instead keep the dog myself and/or give it to a home where I know the people can deal with that pup's particular issue. As I don't believe in FTGH, I would charge a price, but it would be discounted. As for the comment 'A dog that does not have sound conformation should not be sold as a pet at all. It is a 'faulty product' that should not be on the market. I think this comment is referring to more serious 'faults' such as hip displasia and patella's rather than things like coat colour, eye placement, ear sets etc all of which form the conformation of the dog. At least I hope that's the gist of the comment. I don't neccesarily believe in PTS dog's with some of these complaints - In alot of cases faults can be repaired, and then can make great pets to people, as long as the purchaser is aware of the fault, and nothing is trying to be hidden. So I don't think it's fair to say that dogs without sound conformation should not be on the market. There are lots of situations out there where dogs with repaired faults can go on to make fantastic, loving pets, to aware and consenting owners. In many cases out there there are homes available who are only too willing to care for a dog with special needs (albeit it's not the most common thing, they do exist). As for the price these people are charging for a 'pet dog' $2,000 seems quite high for a dog on limited registration. I know there are some breeds out there that do attract this price tag, but most are not that high. Before you buy ANY pup from this breeder I would try to ascertain what the average pet price for that breed.

"The hard part is actually conveying the benefits & pluses of the purebred world (& there's lots more that I haven't mentioned)... to the general public. Over the years on DOL, people have suggested all kinds of ideas... like Purebred Pride Days, Information Displays in pet supply stores etc etc etc. But rarely have I seen them finish up being realized." These things are not as easy to put on as one might think either. You need public liability insurance to run one anywhere in public, get council permission, pay the council a fee (im most circumstances) and that's before you even start organising the actual day and things you need for that. Also some pet stores seem almost unwilling to help promote showing and/or registered breeders (probably because they are afraid of the backlash?? not sure). I know one of the bigger ones got quite upset because one of thier employees bought prizes with thier own money for a raffle to be ran at a show (he didn't say the products were from the store) and at the same chain store they also refused to advertise a purebred fun day, and yet at the same chain store they allow joe public to put up ads for thier crossbred pups.

V.I.P (Nauture's Goodness) is ONLY stocked at Woolies, and not Coles. I have been using it for a while now, the dog's like it, and I have found thier skin has improved once again. I have had NO issues what so ever, and I use the Chicken one, as mine find the game one a bit too big for thier delicate little mouths - lol. I was using Black Hawk, which I found quite good price wise, but a breeder I know who has been in dogs for EVER, has scared me off it - she has said that they used to use rosemary when they wanted thier bitches to abort thier pups, or miss a period. I can't find any good evidence to support him, and I have contacted Black Hawk who has assured me that there is no risk from the rosemary and rosemary extract within the food, but I had a dog who aborted her pups quite late stage while on it, and now Im far too scared to stick with it. But the dogs LOVED Black Hawk, and it was really good value for money. I was looking for an alternative because once I put the furbabies back onto grain food (Proplan) they went itchy, itchy, itchy. I know the Nature's Goodness is not the best option, but it is alot cheaper than the others out there, and seeing I have a number of dogs, and Ive recently been sick I need value for money.

I think it's terrible there is this almost hostile attitude towards breeders out there amongst some people. In fact, if any of you would like a depressing few minutes, check out the FB page called "I hate dog breeders" - I know it really opened my eyes as to how many people out there seriously hate people who breed dogs for any reason, and no matter how responsibly. I have also seen time and time again from a small minority of people advocating stopping all breeding until all the dogs are out of pounds (usually giving a time frame) as a way as solving the problem of pet overpopulation and abandonment and its the same people usually say that anyone who can breed a dog while a dog suffers in a pound is a viscious and awful person. I don't understand where the viciousness has sprung from, especially as others have pointed out, in the end we all want what's best for the dogs. I think we would all agree there are things done by some breeders that really upset people, including breeder's having multiple litters and litters one after another - breeder's selling unhealthy pups and not health testing thier breeding stock and in some rarer cases, the breeder's who do health test and then breed anyway-breeder's who sell to just anyone and everyone without checking anything - the list goes on and on. There is a minority out there, who are registered puppy farmers, who give us all a bad name, but sometimes the people against breeders also use situations that are considered normal practice within the dog world against us too. A good example is the beautiful story of Mita and Angel. Some people wouldn't see that the way we do. We see that as a breeder being selfless and allowing the dogs she no longer shows or breeds to live out thier retirement in a loving home, spoilt rotten by thier owners. But there is those out there, who would see that entirely differently - to them Angel has outlived her 'usefulness' to the breeder, so instead of the breeder keeping her in a forever home, that the breeder cares nothing of her now she can't make any money out of her (with pups). They see that Angel is only treated as a commodity who has outlived her usefulness, and moved on to the next home. In Angel's case, her breeder has done it with more than one dog, so to them, he/she would be even worse - a repeat offender! I have heard the most vicious things said about people in similiar situations, as Im sure we all have. There are those out there who think we see our dogs are commodities who are disposable when we can't get what we want out of them, and Im sure no ethical breeder out there who has made the heart wrenching decision to rehome a dog would agree with that assessment. Im sure we have all heard this argument against breeder's many times, and as any ethical breeder will tell you, if you are doing it right, then you don't make much money (if any) on raising pups. I don't know what the answer is - but I think we are slowly losing the war in the court of public opinion - more and more people seem to be beginning to think breeder's are the enemy, but it's a war we need to win, and not to the detriment of rescue organisations. Rescues do vital work, and we need ethical rescue organisations out there to help the dogs who need it out there. I particularly think the distaste towards pedigree breeder's particularly unsavoury, as although there are a small percentage of pedigree dogs that end up in pounds, the outstanding majority are cross-breds, and in the cases where purebred dogs are found in pounds, there is usually a fairly quick campaign by other breeders within the breed to get them rescued. I can think of a recent occassion where a Tibbie was spotted in Blacktown Pound in NSW, and someone who shows up that way spotted it, and tried to find a way to rescue it - before they could though the tibbie was adopted out. And that's the other point, a little off topic, but purebred's seem like they are fairly quickly adopted out if they are not rescued by a breed club or other rescue organisation first. Both ethical rescues and ethical breeders have a place in the world - and there are unethical rescues out there too - which it sounds like this woman was. I think possibly the hatred towards breeders stems from the more extreme animal rights movements, "Born for looks, Born to Suffer" comes to mind" I don't know if anyone here agrees with me, maybe Im wrong. But it needs to stop. As it's been pointed out, not everyone can find the right fit for thier home from a rescue situation, no matter how much they want to.

I guess some people finish up living in their own bubble, based on a pretty narrow range of experience... & start to see 'others' in a distorted way. Add to that, this lady by her own admission is not on top of managing her own doggie. All a bit chaotic. No wonder her reasoning doesn't make a lot of sense, as you say. As for (registered) breeders being 'greeders'.... we've owned 4 p/b, still young ex-Aus Ch dogs where in 3 cases, the breeder had to be forced to take any money for them. In the 4th case (who won BOB Puppy in entire Brisbane Royal), the breeder asked 'What you can afford.' All they wanted was the best of good homes for the little dogs that had done their bit for the development of a specially lovely breed. The evidence is that breeders like these, are the very people not likely to swell the numbers of dogs needing rescue. You were lucky to get such quality dogs, Im suprised the breeder didn't want to use them in thier own breeding/show programme. If I had the Puppy in Show from ANY royal, you would have to prise him/her from my cold dead hands. lol. :)

That story has brought a tear to my eye, that is just disgusting. Poor Buddy, I hope he is running free at the bridge. Surely there is something you can do, maybe the more experienced in these sorts of things on this forum can help you. They should not be able to operate one more day, and put any more lives at risk. Maybe report them to the RSPCA for animal abuse, or neglect, and perhaps Fair Trading for operating a shoddy business. Im not sure, but hopefully someone can help you find a way to help you make them pay for taking an innocent life with such negligence. NO animal should be left unattended on a grooming table whether on a check chain, a martingale, or just standing. And where was the groomer when he fell? Obviously not even in the room? You poor thing, this has enraged and saddened me, so I can only imagine how badly you are feeling. It's always terrible hearing of people's loss, but when it comes as a result of someone else's negligence (who is supposed to care for them) its just devastating. Love to you, your family, and too Buddy.

Frontline and/or Frontline Plus are supposed to both do fleas - I thought it was just the Plus but if you read the jacket for the original it says it covers it too. The truth is both of them are absolutely useless for ticks, and I don't find them that effective for fleas either. We lived just north of Sydney for a while, and got two ticks while using the products. Have used advantix in the past, but now use tick collars when it is tick season and we are in tick prone areas, in combination with daily tick checks. No matter what you use that is the key, to check EVERYWHERE for ticks diligently. That's my experience anyway.

What a lovely story, I think it's a great program no matter who runs it. I have heard of Living Ruff before, but im not exactly sure how it works, and even heard a rumour that you have to pay for the boarding at the RSPCA - does anyone know if that's true or not? I think it's great that this issue is being addressed - so many people are forced to choose between finding a place to live and thier pet, and that's a hard choice. I know if I was ever in that position, I would rather live on the street, than give up my dogs, so Living Ruff seems to help people in those positions. That Rev. with Exodus seems to understand human nature quite well doesn't he? Seems like such a genuinely nice person.

I use them for Comfortis, have ordered for at least 6 months, they are the cheapest i have found by heaps, and offer free postage on what i get, so i would highly recommend them !

There's nothing in the rules that says you can't, and even if there is an ethical issue, no one else seems to stop and consider whether it's right or not, so go for it! I don't see that there is an ethical issue here however. Good Luck, hopefully, he does well and you guys have fun!

I'm glad I found this thread. Ive been recently looking at getting pet insurance for my clan, but have been a bit unconvinced. I have multiple dogs, and the premium is about $600 a month for all of them. While I was getting quotes I was absolutely disgusted to find that they charge more (and a fair bit more) for a purebred than a mixed breed, or designer dog. Unbelievable. When I rang one company, they asked me a heap of questions, I answered them honestly, and they told me that my answers were fine, but for my breed (Cavaliers) they doubt that he has no health issues, so they would insure him (he's seven, almost eight) BUT if ANYTHING happens and it turns out he has a pre-existing condition (even one I SHOULD of known about) then they would 1. find out and 2. not cover him. I hang up on her, she was SO rude, and haven't looked into it any further. I thought maybe it was just one company but they ALL charge more for purebreds, and I'm sure the pet industry is the same as regular insurance, and Ive just had a NIGHTMARE time getting money off them for something else! lol. I'm going to go with my gut now, and just save up some money for disasters.

Everyone is right, bite the bullet, and show her yourself - I know it sounds scary, but it is better to grow with her as a handler and she grows into a show dog. Baby puppies can make mistakes, and it is a whole lot of fun, plus you'll pick up tips and hints from others at the show ring, to grow into a great handler yourself. Don't be scared, see it as a team building exercise with your very cute puppy and you.

I went to Pm you some info but it said you cannot recieve any more messages.

I have a whole gaggle of gorgeous small dogs that are active show dogs who would be perfect - except we live in Adelaide!

I have never done Perth Royal, but from experience at others - try to take as little stuff as absolutely possible. Especially as you'll have human children to look after as well! If the Perth benches are anything like anywhere else you can be quite pushed for space and often you are parked a fair way away from the pavillions, so the less you take the better! I always try and make sure EVERYTHING i have to carry can fit in one trolley, and I push the trolley and walk the dogs.

This isn't a thread really about the quality of papered pedigree dogs, but I do agree with the above about breeding for the show ring. I think alot of the responsibility lies in the hands of our judges. Judges really have the power to shape how pedigree dogs are bred. The way I see it, what get's put up in the show ring is what style becomes popular. Then the show fraternity breed to try and match what the majority of judge's are putting up, and what is winning. This then trickles down to public expectations of the dog they are buying to match what is in the show ring. I know, most of the time the breeder's are the ones who are blamed for these shifts in what is expected in a breed. And they are. They could buck the trend and breed to standard, not what is winning in the show ring. But, standards as we all know, are subject to interpretation, and the judge's are meant to be the ones trained to interpret that standard, and give expert assessment on which dogs are the best versions of the breed standard. Really, they are there to interpret what dogs fit to the standard the best, and if they put up dogs that are not to standard, they are encouraging whatever that trend is.

Very well said HW, I couldn't agree more. I agree, well said. It may not be perfect, but unfortunately it's the best we have to work with.

Sorry I disagree. I know many breeders who sell dogs for reduced prices for the promise of returned stud fees. Its a way for the breeder to keep hold of her bloodlines, when she may not be in a position to keep another dog at her home. First as someone else has said, you need to work out if you want an ENTIRE male dog. Potentially for the rest of his life. My advice - get a contract stating how many stud's she is asking for. It is NOT normal for a breeder to ask for never ending stud's from a dog. Nor is it fair. The money factor has been pointed out before. We have one show dog here that we bought on breeder's terms (fully owned by us) - we got a $300 reduction for 2 matings. The breeder we bought him off, forgot she had this deal with us though, and rang us, asking to use him for payment of a fee! I also own two of my show dogs in co-owned names. With a dog we owned previously, we did have some problems, but that was to do with things to do with breeding. (he didn't think any dog was good enough to be put to our bitch) But the breeder I co-own with now is FANTASTIC. She has become really one of my best friends, and is a great mentor. Our contract is in writing, so both of us know where we stand. If you do go ahead with it, make sure you get everything in writing, and you understand exactly what she is asking of the dog in the future. That way you can decide whether you are ok with it or not. Seeing she obviously wants the bloodlines of the dog for mating in the future I completely understand the reason she wants you to co-own. If she doesn't have her name on the papers she has no legal power over the dog. I wouldn't rule it out. Maybe after the agreed number of stud's you could write into the contract that she will sign the dog 100% over into your name.

As I said, I don't really know anything about Labs, other than what I see win in the show ring. I didn't say that they have the best labs to buy, and honestly it would probably be pretty hard to get one from them anyway. But as with any dog, find your breeder on DOL, nowhere else. Make sure they have a prefix, show you proof of health testing - certificates from Specialists - Im pretty sure Hip Displaysia and PRA (an eye condition affecting the retina which can leave the dog blind) are of primary concern. When you go to buy, ask them to email you a copy of the pups pedigree, or if they haven't recieved that yet a copy of the mum and the dad's - they should be two blue certificates with a brown ANKC stamp in the bottom corner. And of course ask for lots of photos of the pup, and to see the pup before you decide on your purchase. I would also ask for photos of the mum and dad, so you can see what your pup is likely to end up like. Ask to see the parents, and where the puppies are born, if you can't make it interstate or a long way from home, ask for photos as an absolute minimum. Remember, if you buy from a breeder who has no prefix, and does not issue a pedigree (main or limited) with the pup, you have bought from a BYB, at best, or a puppy farmer at worst.

Im so sorry for your loss, not only of your friend, but of the companion you kindly offered to care for. And yes, I would be angry, infact furious.

That is a very sad story. Im glad you have her back now though. Its sad when circumstance's beyond our control force us to part with those we love the most.

That's a hard one! I would probably err on the side of caution for a while. We have much smaller dogs, but even so, the pups are kept seperated except when supervised for play and socialisation with the older dogs.

If a dog in rescue has papers then it initially came from a registered breeder, and yes is a purebred dog. I wasn't referring to dogs in rescue but rather pups from puppy farmers/BYB'ers etc.

All I know about labs, is that Driftway seem to win alot in the show circuit.