zayda_asher

Also thought I would mention if you do a search with the key word "allergy" in this forum you will find heaps. If you do a search with the key word "allergy" and my name in the name box "Zayda_asher" you will be able to see all the past threads I have told my dogs' stories in and also what treatments, remedies etc. have worked in more detail Dan Edit: spelling

I have two allergic dogs - the two in my avatar: Zayda (cream) has: Food: Beef Lamb Corn Tuna Sardines and an intolerance for eggs Atopic: Alternaria mould Asher (blue) has: Atopic: 1) Dandelion 2) Melaleuca 3) Fleas 4) cocksfoot grass 5) Johnson grass 6) Yellow dock weed 7) Deer Flys 8) Dust mites 9) Fodder mites Contact: Proplyene glycol (used in shampoos, ear cleaners, spot ons, vaccinations, semi-moist foods) and bad sensitivities to a lot of chemicals and preservatives We use antihistamines, bath them with medicated soaps, have them on a raw diet, are doing immunotherapy treatment for the atopic ones, use herbal remedies, probiotics, and many many other things to control the symptoms and treat the causes. You have to find out what they react to as you can only treat the symptoms if you don't know. Also you could be using a product that will make them worse, thinking that they will get better. For example Asher can't have any tea tree products because he is allergic to melalueca! Zayda is an extreme and sensitive case: she came home with her allergies at 7 weeks of age. She is now well under control though, looks beautiful and is healthy! Asher was more typical as his became more apparent as he got older and was diagnosed at about 1.5 yrs of age. He is also in great condition. They can be well maintained, but the key is finding out what the allergy is! Good luck Dan

Aparently in the US you can get them all separately... Distemper is also one high on the list for causing reactions. Because they are additives that are used for things like binding the product together, preserving the shelf life etc. So they are chemicals and preservatives, some quite nasty and not really intended for the use they are put to. For example: Asher (blue boy in avatar) is extremely contact allergic to proplyene glycol which is used in a lot of products. Its a waxy carrier that helps preserve and hold a product together. Its even used to retain moisture in semi moist foods. It burns Asher severely and immediately we can't use anything with it. Even in dogs / people that aren't actually allergic it can cause burning with prolonged use. Asher has a lump on his neck that will never go away from where this was injected into him and he is chronically afraid of needles now. Yes, and dilute colours too like Blue... Dan Edit to add a little more info.

I'm not at home Cordelia... When I get home I will have a look through some of my links and see what I can find. Someone else my have some on hand What I have found in research is: 1) combining more than one disease together in a vaccine ups the risks: single disease vaccines are better 2) Modified - live, Live and recombinant vaccines all have their own issues: some worse than others 3) The Adjuvants they use to hold the Vac together are often worse than the vac itself 4) some breeds are more at risk, as are dogs with some conditions 5) There is a "chicken and egg" scenario for Allergic dogs: which caused which, possibly a bit of both... but allergic dogs are at high risk for vaccine reactions and having their allergies worsened by vaccine. Dan

Cordelia, Catherine Diodati's book, which I gave the link to above, has all the scientific studies in it. Dan

They look for the Ig-E in the blood, so if this is the case it would not show... although I have never heard of a dog doing so Have you done a food trial? Also your dog may not be atopic... Was he intradermally tested for fleas and other insects? Have contact allergies been considered? Although contact allergies are rare they do occurr... I have a dog with a severe contact allergy to proplyene glycol which is used in a lot of products like shampoos... so even the things you think are helping sometimes are the things they are allergic to! Consider these other options as well Good luck to both of you! Dan Edit for silly mistakes!

Vaccine reactions are actually quite common, but most go unidentified. Chemical reactions to things like spot ons etc. are also far more common that people think. A majority of them remain unreported though, so there is no incentive for the companies to change their formulas. These issues MUST be reported!! I recommend reading: The Vaccine Guide for Dogs and Cats Shock to the System Sorry for the pup in this case Dan Edit: clarity

Staph infections, which are common with atopic allergies, start off as pimple like lesions. They burst and then often form round rings that get mistaken for ring worm. They need a good course of antibiotics to break the infection. Once you know what the allergy is you can control it in other ways. We have had great succes controling Asher's with Pau D'arco, an antibacterial herb. Dan

Oh yuck, sounds like a nice poo :rolleyes: :cool: Glad she's done it for you though I little bit of mashed pumkin will also work if you have to do this again... like the flax seed though, not too much or it will go the other way. Dan

I use aloe vera powder with my dogs... You can get it in capsules (probably in bulk powder too)... my dogs eat pills in their food so it goes straight down, or you can open them and mix it in with the food... Dan

geez, that sounds like the even more expenisve than the expensive option!!! Why aren't they just doing intradermal testing and an elemination diet?? Blood testing also has some draw backs too... like it will only show what the dog was reacting to at the time the blood was taken: if there is something they are not reacting to they may have an undiscovered allergy from the test... Terror: Until you know what is making the dog allergic you can only treat the symptoms... you need to find out what is causing the allergy. Dan

Geez, how much of that Chrissy Prezie did he manage to consume?? Poor boy... its no fun what so ever... glad he's doing better!! Dan

Oh, its also best to find out what sort of infection the pup's ears have as different cleaners and treatments can actually make the infection worse depending on what type it is... ears are really difficult and delicate... :p Dan

Food allergies develop over time, they are most likely to develop to the things the dog is exposed to as a young pup, therefore, it could well be her food. People get confused by this, thinking that they have always fed the food, but because the allergy develops they will not react for a while. Its common for dogs to be around 1.5 yrs. before they manifest a food allergy and they have been on the same food the whole time. Although we are finding that dogs are manifesting now at younger and younger ages. Recurrent ear infections are a common indicator of allergies. Go to the vet and find out exactly what kind of infection it is, and also talk about the posibility of allergies. Many vets are not au fait with allergies and you may need to look around to find a vet that does have a good understanding. Oh, Staffords are prone to allergies too (most of the Bull Breeds are). If you have an allergic dog be prepared to spend some money. A referral to a dermatologist is the best way to get good results on allergies and that's not cheap. Try to remember though that although it is painful for our hip pocket, it is a lot more painful / uncomfortable / itchy etc. for our poor dog! I have two allergy dogs... Once you have it sorted out its not that hard to deal with... but you need to put in some hard work and money to get it sorted out. In the long run you will spend more money trying to treat it without addressing the allergy than if you do and your dog will thank you for sorting it out for them :p Good luck Dan

Yes, sorry, I wasn't very clear and what you have said so eloquently is more what I actually meant Dan

Too Sad Yes, that is the difference between working cattle and sheep... And why I would look at the individual animal and its temperament and suitability... As Diane points out its something that certainly needs to be accounted for in other breeds too: Sounds like some of those dogs shouldn't have been working... Dan EFS

Yes, Bruce, that's very true... Sad isn't it? I think we would all be concerned about people that might do something in a way that would injure the welfare of an animal... no one is suggesting that this should be acceptable. In agility we ocassionally get people that put their dog's welfare at risk because they come and "play" without waiting for proper instruction etc. We are very firm with these people and if they do not like they can choose not to return... I'm sure most herding instructors would value the welfare of the dogs and the sheep in the same manner as we do the dogs' (and people) that come to our club... Thank you MJK05 I think you summed this up nicely And that is the attitude I would expect most herding instructors would have! Thank you David for having such a no nonsense, sensible attitude! Dan Edit: because its too early for good S&G

Deary, deary me... how disapointing to see such crappy breed mythology raise its ugly head in people who should know better... locking jaws indeed, that old chestnut??? I thought you had to have a very low IQ to believe that one these days... Anyone know why the Bull Terriers have the BULL bit in their name??? Yep, points to those who got it: its because they were originally cattle, general farm and butchers dog's... they were used for working cattle and running jobs on the farms... Yep, some, unfortunately were bred for fighting at some stages, but that's certianly not the entire history of them. And many of those dogs that were bred for fighting worked on the farms during the day and went in the pits at night (farmers of the time thought it good sport and many breeds went in the pits: all the working terriers went in the pits, against rats, cats and other animals.). We see putting animals in a pit today as barbaric and, as a consequence, the majority of Bull and Terrier dogs are breed to be good family pets and don't have the drive those old dogs had, sure there are still a few morons out there, but most breeds have their morons. Yes sheep are different to cows and yes their welfare, as that of any animal (including the human one) is important... but there are many individuals in the Bull breeds that do herding very sucessfully... I can think of at least 4 Bull terriers off the top of my head and Diane Jessup's American Pit Bull Terrier, Bandog Dread (the most titled champion in breed history) holds a Herding Title.... Did I mention Diane works as an ACO and has the welfare of animals as a part of her daily working life??? Dan Edit: Spelling

Is that the lump from her vaccination Heidi? Sounds like good news... hope the vet agrees!!! Dan

Yes, I do believe that allergies are quite common with Weims... It is a pity that your breeder is not more friendly... she could tell you so much more about the history of Busta's family and what is in their health history Dan

Ah... I forgot the genetic question... yep, allergies do normally have a genetic component, related to immune system issues. Weims are also a dilute colour and it is believed that this is related to allergies too... Both my dogs are dilute colours too... Although of course that doesn't mean that every dog that is dilute colour will be allergic and that a dog that isn't dilute will not be allergic... But you have to know how to breed with dilute colour stock to help avoid these issues... Dan

Yeah it sucks big time!! He is my wimpy boy... We give his immunotherapy to him orally because he is also scared of needles (he reacts to vaccinations)... he's a sook, but to be fair with the nasty reactions he has had its really not surprising... Zayda is my tough little girl... she doesn't complain... she races out the back at the vets to get her needls When I had to do her ears every second day (don't have to do them at all now ;) ) she got so used to it that it was a one person job... so easy... Eye drops are a two person job, but its a bit scary seeing something coming for your eye!! I'd hate to even try eye drops with Asher - he'd be terrified!! They make a mess with the ear cleaners don't they - its an outside job ;) My dogs are really good with pills though - just chuck them on top of their food and they get eaten... its just as well with all the suppliments and antihisamines and stuff!!! We're going to set up another paddle pool this summer, but full of white sand so they can make sand wallows in it... hopefully that'll keep them happy: grass, sand and water (and hopefully the new grass wont get dug up - although they are trying to eat it out of the ground atm ) Dan

Good luck with the mince balls... a friend of mine put me onto them.... you get all sorts of tricks in your arsenal once you've had allergic dogs for a while... they teach you all sorts They do love having a job to do... agility and obedience is the same for my dogs... Thanks ;) We used to go to the beach... but Asher gets ear infections from it (he's an underwater swimmer)and he is hediously allergic to propleyne glycol which they use in a lot of products, including ear cleaners... it REALLY burns him... Because of this he is dead scared of things in his ears... so if he does get an ear infection we have to have him sedated (which he also has issues with - took a long time to wake from the last one) and he will have to have tubes (shunts) surgically implanted in his ears so that we can get the drops in... its just not worth it!!! So no more beach for us ;) They have their paddle pool and play in the sprinklers... that will have to do... Dan

Ok... if she is having goat and munching on horse bones then you can give her both those meats which you can get in mince... here's a good trick: grab a pack of mince and roll it up into balls (like you would for meat balls only a bit smaller)... then you put them on a plate and microwave them for a few mins... about 2-3 depending on how big they are... They cook and stick together and there is nothing but the meat in them!!! Then you can break them in to bits as you are training! Warning: goat and horse is pretty stinky when you cook it! Yep, the fruit is good too... but its good to have other things as they get bored... mine like to eat some fruit, but don't really like it enough to work for it... the z/d sucks big time!!! Cool... agility is great fun... let me know if you have probs getting into agility at Northern Subs (I think they are pretty full up atm) and I can give you the info for my club if you would like... I was thinking about doing tracking next winter with mine for fun... You'd know Judy then... we do obedience with her ;) That could be it because I did go and look at your site... lovely paintings... I really liked the one of the horses and the one you did for Amlovinya Dan

Whoops! For some reason I had it my head you were in Albany or somewhere... no idea where I got that from ;) We're up Northern Subs too... We've got a wonderful relationship with our Derm at Murdoch... they do a great job don't they? So helpful!!! It is always nice to share stories with other people who have similar experiences... Once you have everything sorted out it will be easier... Mine do agility and obedience and do well... although it was really hard when we were doing the food trials with Zayda... Do you do obedience with Busta... I think you do (although I was wrong about where you live so who knows lol!) What foods have you got her on at the moment? Whatever meat you are using as your novel protein - if you boil it lightly you can use that as a training treat... you can also dehydrate it in the oven... This way you know its just the one protein source and is safe for her... and its not as boring as feeding her the z/d kibble for treats which they get bored of quickly! Let me know what she is allowed to eat at the moment and I'll see if I have any training treat ideas that are useable! Dan