zayda_asher

Thanks for the list of ingredients I would be worried about the shelf life and, therefore, efficacy of some of them (heat related and age related spoilage). Also I note that it has marigolds, so my atopic boy would definitely do badly on this product as they are daisy family and he's allergic to them... he has no food allergies, just the atopy and insect allergies. A lot of things used in skin support are things atopic dogs can be allergic to (because they are herbal, i.e.: come from plant sources), Asher is also allergic to tea tree so that wipes out a whole bunch of things we can use on him too... ingredients are really important for atopic dogs too! Thanks for digging up the ingredients for me...

Which wont actually reduce the risk of the dog developing an allergy, it just reduces the number of things the dog may be allergic to if it does develop adverse food reactions But that's not what you're interested in atm, so good luck finding someone who has used it with only an atopic dog... As I stated I still would want to know the full list of ingredients where they just list things like "nutrients" because there's plenty in there for even "just" an atopic dog to react to...

Its not actually... its claimed for all allergies. It specifically states that it is: http://www.royalcanin.us/products/productdetail.aspx?ID=84 So its aimed at food allergies as well... but they still don't list the full ingredients. Atopic dogs will also respond to things they are allergic to if ingested. For example daisy is used in skin support as a herbal supplement and my boy is chronically allergic to daisies so I have to avoid all products with this in it weather oral, topical etc. So it is still important to know what the full ingredient list is. Diet will only help in a general sense of giving good health and making sure the immune system can function to the best of its abilities. Yes, they have added supplements for the skin in this formula and some of those things will work for some dogs and not others, some dogs will even be allergic to some of those things. You are far better off to do a test of the supplements you want to use on your dog individually and see if they are effective for them or not and also see if they react to them. If you use a broad spectrum product like this you will a) not know what ingredient helped and b) not know what the dog reacts to if they do react. Also supplements added to dry foods are often in doses that are a) too small to be effective or b) have lost their potency by the time they reach the home (dry foods are not stored appropriately to maintain the life of a lot of oils and other supplements). You would also still need to know if you dog has any other allergies that may be effected by eating this type of food, for example, my boy is allergic to fodder mites which live in dry foods so they are not appropriate to him... so you are still best off to know what your dog reacts to and work individually to tailor to their needs. An individual program of treatment and support will work much better in the long term than trying something that's been watered down to suit all because the dog will be getting exactly what it needs and what works for them. The bonus too is that you often save in your hip pocket because you know the dog utilises everything you give them!

I have my dogs on a homemade diet, no kibble which works well for us... I had a look on the net, but couldn't find a complete list of ingredients for that product... it would depend on the dog and if there is anything in it that they are allergic to... Most RC products have corn, so they are out for us...

Yep, have her teeth checked. Lip fold dermatitis is a possibility... If she has skin problems then you may want to talk to a dermatologist, stinky breath can be symptomatic of allergies. I'd get a full check over: stinky breath can mean a lot of things going wrong. She could even be missing something in her diet nutritionally...

Actually its 10 and 25 mg tabs... and it depends on the dogs, just like people: both my dogs get 25mg X 2 daily and if they had any more energy I'd be in trouble!! I can also take the 25mg ones without effect... SM: Kikuyu is a very common grass for dogs to be atopically allergic to. You may find that she has atopic allergies, but she is worst in spring / summer as that is when the pollens are out and she is pushed over her tolerance threshold (i.e.: in the rest of the year she is doing ok coping with what she is exposed to). How old is your dog? Typically allergies develop to what is in the general environment and that means that symptom pattern develops as they age. If she is young and only just developing her allergies then you may well see a worsening in her symptom pattern as she ages. Typically atopic dogs start seasonally and degenerate to year round symptoms as they age (which I have seen with my one dog who is 6 and am seeing a gradual development of in my other dog who is 4). If I were you I would talk to my vet about seeing a dermatologist and getting the testing done to see what she is allergic to. There's lots you can do besides drugs, but not if don't know what they are allergic to. Maybe its not even the Kikuyu and you don't have to worry about it! If it is though maybe you could pull and replant in batches and isolate her from what isn't done yet or similar... I have Kikuyu, neither of my guys are allergic... so it really does depend on the dog...

It really depends on what your dogs have allergies / intolerances to... MY guys are on home prepared raw as a) Zayda can't eat most kibbles because there are ingredients she is allergic to (and I dont like the way they change fomulas without warning) and b) Asher is allergic to fodder mites which inhabit dried / stored foods... If you don't know what the dog is actually allergic to you need to talk to a Derm about testing, including elimination diet.

Actually I should just make it clear that I was talking high dose steriods: injection or pill. They have both had some topical steroids in preps like Dermotic for ear infection, but that is still not very common use in this house hold (although before Zayda's allergies were controled we did have to use the dermotic a bit on her, not now that we have a good plan though)... And I think I might actually go back and have a look at some older posts, probably give a good overview of things we have tried that didn't work as well, or what we used to use, but don't have to any more... EFS: should proof read before i post!

In my house cortisone is for bee/wasp stings - that's a possible life and death situation and needs quick action... It certainly does take work and effort to work out what works for your dog without relying on steriods, but it can be done... Zayda's had steriods a couple of times for stings and once to get some hives down (although it didn't work). Asher has never had them... As you can see they are both in good condition: If you do a search on the health forum with my user name and "allergies" you should find a fair few posts detailing stuff I use with my guys (heaps of things! lol)... Asher was 4 in October and Zayda is 6 on Thursday...

Here's the lists for my guys: Zayda Food: Beef Lamb Corn Tuna Sardines Alfalfa and an intolerance for eggs Atopic: Alternaria mould Insect: Wasps Bees (Possible Anaphylaxis developing) Asher Atopic: Dandelion Melaleuca Fleas cocksfoot grass Johnson grass Yellow dock weed Deer Flys / March flies Dust mites Fodder mites Contact: Propylene Glycol (used in shampoos, ear cleaners, spot ons, vaccinations, semi-moist foods) Sensitivities: Many chemicals and preservatives I use a combination of things: antihistmines, homeopathic, herbal, immunotherapy, bathing, probiotics etc. etc. All done with our Dermatologist (I research the complimentary stuff and then we look at what has worked etc. together). Zayda reacted to her immunotherapy, but we swapped to oral trial and she is doing really well now, which is just as well because it makes a huge difference for her. Asher was on an oral trial and reacted severely to his immunotherapy so we are now working on maintaining him with out it. So far ok. People also fail to recognise the hereditary nature of Allergies. I'm amazed at the number of people who breed from dogs with allergies without any understanding of what they are passing on in the gene pool...

Ah, well I just did a bit of a search and March (horse) flies and deer flies are the same family: Tabanidae. So I'd say I'm on the mark with him being allergic to the March flies too... well off to have a chat with Sharon I go!! lol

I've been meaning to drop you a pm and see how you guys have been going... sounds like you've worked out a good routine, which is fab! Asher has just started having massive reactions to his immunotherapy after being on it for about two years and we've had to discontinue... so far so good cross fingers. So its worth being aware that they don't always react to it straight away too... Zayda also reacted to her's after about 2-2.5 yrs. However, she was on injections and we moved her to oral as a trial and that has worked for her because she fell apart without her immunotherapy... so lets hope this continues to work for her. Asher was already being trialed on oral therapy when he reacted so we had no where to go for him, so lets hope he continues to do well without it! The other thing I am exploring at the moment is weather he is allergic to march flies. He was bitten by one and the bites have gone funny... they may just have gotten irritated from him itching them etc. But he is allergic to deer flies so I've got to chat to Sharon and see do some research to see if they are related or anything... Its a possibility...

Well its certainly your choice... I know my guys have each about 10-12 strong allergies and knowing what they are has certainly helped us to reduce the load for them... Even to the point of knowing "if we go here where there is Tea trees (for example) then I will have to do x, y, & z with Asher when we get home to reduce the reaction..." Or the fact that knowing Zayda is allergic to a specific mold and knowing when it grows (under what conditions) means I can do stuff like keep her warmer & covered when out, reduce the moisture in our house and do other things to ensure her reaction is less when we go out. It really does make a difference to how you tackle things... And you can't do desenstisation if you don't know what to desenstise to and that often DOES make a huge difference. My dogs hardly have yeast or Staph infections any more (and if they do break out we were often expecting it and able to take steps to lessen it) so it really does make a difference to know what exactly you are working with and treating. But yeah, it is expensive, and its certainly up to you if you want to or not... Another treatment some people are having success with is a drug called Atopica but, again, it is expensive... I've chosen not to use it for a variety of reasons, but it is another option... Cheers & good luck Dan

That is also some of your most common areas for atopy (air born) to show. Contact allergies actually aren't that common, its much more likely to be atopy... There's still plenty you can do for things like grass allergies: normally you will find they are reacting to one or two specific types, so a change of grass in the immediate environment can provide a ton of relief. Also if you know what ones they are reacting to you can then go down the path of desensititsation treatment as well... Dogs are also likely to be allergic to a few things rather than just one so you will find there could be one or two specific grasses, a few plants, something like mosquitoes etc. So knowing all that gives you a variety of options for treatments. If you search the health forum with my name you will come up with a lot of other info I've posted on my guys, including the lists of what they are allergic to (although I think Zayda will have added alfalfa to that list since I last posted!)... It will give you an idea of the range of things that they will often be allergic to at once... My guys are pretty typical.

Have you been to a dermatologist to have him tested and find out what he allergic to? You could find there are things in the immediate environment (plants, dust mites, other insects) that you can clear from his home! That helps heaps! Also sometimes they are allergic to the things in the products we think are helping them! My boy for example is allergic to tea tree and Daisy family, which are used in a lot of skin products!! The heat is from the inflamation... A lot of dogs find Omega 3s help, so a high dose of fish oil may help (if he's not allergic) also some skin conditions respond well to Evening Primrose Oil. Soothing shampoos make a big difference, I see you're using aloveen, which is great although its not if he's allergic to oats (I know a few dogs that are)!! If the skin is infected then Resichlor is a great lotion that helps a lot. I use a lot of herbal remdeies with my guys, but I don't like to recommend things if you don't know what the allergies are. I've found some homeopathic treatments work really well too. I'd definitely recommend and antihistamine trial... And bare in mind that if you do find one they can get used to them after prolonged use and you may have to swap... I've used clorpheniramine (Vet not human), Phenergan and Polaramine with my guys... If he has itchy / runny eyes you may also find that Patanol antihistamine eye drops help. Good luck! ETA: Someone else suggestion desensitisation... that's another good reason to see a derm and get tested.. Allergen Specific Immunotherapy (ASIT, commonly called Desensitisation) can make a huge difference for some dogs... Both my guys have really seen a difference with this treatment.

Discharge is normal... But I'd keep an eye on it... My boy gets Staph infections with his allergies and one of the signs of impending Staph break out is when his discharge starts to go yellow... if he gets a raging break out it will go green - ew! So yeah, watch the colour cos in my experience yellow to green is not a good look. When Asher is well discharge is pure white.

lol Cool... thanks. I know straight neem oil STINKS, which is why I asked...

Are you using it straight on the grass or diluting it? I've always found vinegar great for the conrete but never thought of using it on the grass...

Does that make the whole yard stink of neem though? I'm not sure which would be worse!

Yeah, I certainly don't feed milk either... we do use youghurt and cheese though. And no, I don't think he made that point in his book...

Yeah, sounds like a LOT of bone to me... My guys get a bone and no bone meal every day...

Thanks!

I have to use unflavoured (normal tablets, not chewables) for my guys as one of my dogs has food allergies and is allergic to the beef they use in the palatables. I've been using Proheart tabs because its all I've been able to get here, but I am told that is going off the market possibly now... Does anyone have a reputable Australian site that sells either Heart Gaurd or Proheart unflavoured tabs on line?? I would like to get Heart Gaurd if I can but I've never seen it anywhere in the unflavoured form... Thanks!! Dan

Most dogs are only intolerant of dairy because we stop feeding it to them, therefore, they stop producing lactase to digest it. If you keep feeding them dairy then they will keep producing lactase and, in general, have no issues. Flax seed is not as good because the omega 3s are in a form that needs converting for use (because they are plant based), this means that you have to take more (much more) of it to get the same amount as you do from a smaller dose of fish oil, which doesn't need converting by the body to utilise. You should be able to find more info if you google that...

Oh, I will look forward to hearing more about that when it is available! Thanks for letting us know... Glad you had a good conference! ETA: Good luck with the new job too!