zayda_asher

Or just save the stock from cooking the chicken to pour over the rice... this helps up the liquid content as well too... they can just drink broth to encourage them to keep the liquids up.

Those things are still on the cards, I'm intersted to try the immunotherapy. Antihistamines don't seem to help at all in her case. The immunotherapy is Zayda's saviour... works really well for her and she is a terrible mess when off it. It worked well for Asher, until he sensitised to it and couldn't tolerate it any more. So in my experience it is definitely worth a try, hopefully you get a "Zayda like" result and it helps your girl out. Pity the antihistmines didn't do much, some dogs just really don't get benefit from them. First Time Puppy Owner had that experience with her dog, but found the atopica worked very well in their case... so it might be worth dropping her a PM to chat about the atopica as another potential treatment. Good luck with it all... sounds like the poor girl is in the wars... I hope it all goes well. Zayda had a molar removed last year and it was a pretty big op... we had her given fluids thought the procedure, which definitely helps. We're prepping to buy sometime this year / next year and things like grass and no carpets are all on the list of things to look for to maximise a nice, clean environment for all us allergy sufferers! Its a good opportunity really! Thanks again! :D

Did I read right that you are working with a dermatologist? Have you done intradermal testing? I would think immunotherapy, antihistamines and atopic may be options for you as well (unless of course you've tried without success etc.).

Thanks!

Thanks mate!! We do work really hard to keep them in good condition, but its more than worth it as you would know! Zayda is 8 next week, and I'm really proud of both of them...

Thanks for posting White Eagle... sorry you are having such a rough ride... Kikuyu is a very common allergen... something you may consider is swapping your grass... We have Sir Walter, it works well for a lot of people as its a sterile male plant, so no pollen. Some dogs do still get a contact reaction from it, so maybe if you know someone with it you can let the dogs romp on their lawn and see how they go? Good luck!

Hey, no dramas! For many it may not be an issue.... but its always good to keep these things in mind... Patch testing is really useful to make sure already sensitive skin isn't further irritated... I just know how down and frustrating it can make you, when you think you've found something that works for everyone else and it falls in a screaming heap for you!

Of course we also have a host of things like Resichlor and lamisil we use to help fight minor flare ups when they happen, so that we can nail them before they turn chronic and need ABs... Here's a pic of the boy:

I agree. This dog is a well managed dog with a long term care plan (he was six in Oct and diagnosed at 1.5yrs, receives regular vet care and 6 monthly revisits to his derm with regular email contact in between). Maintenance plan includes: weekly baths, daily antihistamines, fatty acid supps and herbal / other supplementation to help with skin and gut condition and to prevent bacterial infection. Asher was on ASIT, but had to be taken off, as he was too sensitive and we were having reactions from it. This is the first time in those 6 yrs that we have had to use Pred (starting just before Xmas). Atopica was not deemed suitable in our case. I'm not using it as most "long term" users would: he's not on a regular dose every day or every other day. He only gets a dose of Pred when his reaction is so strong that an extra antihistamine is ineffective. So in the last three weeks he's had 4 individual administrations of a single dose. So he's not just been whacked on some ludicrous high dosage for everyday use, although it does appear that we may still find a lower dosage effective, and I will talk to my vet and derm about this. Pred is "the kitchen sink" for us... We've found that upping his antihistamines and utilising Olive Leaf extract has great reduced his reactions both in frequency and how chronic they are. Unfortunately sometimes he is still getting the odd chronic reaction and nothing else I have seems to help. I do try to save steroids as the "big guns" you pull out only when you really need to, and I have been lucky that my dogs have responded to other therapies. That is how I've been using it here, and I totally agree that it comes to a point where quality of life needs considering first. However, the current way it is working for Asher the "cure" is almost as bad as the illness in side effects that effect quality of life... So I'll have a chat with our derm about lowering the dosage and take it from there... hopefully that will help us find a median point Thanks.

This serves as a good example of how knowing what your dog is allergic to (and even if it is allergies causing the issues) is important. Calendula is a part of the Daisy family and many atopic dogs are allergic to daisies. Now, just because a dog reacts atopically to the pollen doesn't mean that they will automatically react to the same thing on contact with the skin, however, some can and will also have contact reactions to the things they are atopically allergic to. For people with particularly sensitive dogs it is always worth testing for this before you use any product. In my case I have one of each: Zayda is ok with oat shampoo, even though she is allergic to oat pollen, where as Asher is quite sensitive to contact for many things he is atopically allergic to. In fact, if he even gets a wiff of tea tree (atopic for Melaleuca) he is off to hide in disgust! So it is always worth knowing what your dog actually reacts to and testing anything before you use it, or sometimes we make things worse without realising it. Obviously Erny, your boy is doing well with it, so that's great I just thought it was a great example of how different things may work for different people for different reasons... if I tried using that on Asher it would most likely PROMOTE bacterial growth instead of lessening it. He may be ok with that, but given his history of cross sensitivity and the fact we've had bad reactions recently, I've chosen to steer clear instead of test and risk a further reaction, so I can't say he would certainly 100%. I just put it out there as something else for people to think about when choosing products or if they see reactions with something that was a "miracle" for everyone else EFS

I've not rinsed them in it, but I have applied it directly to affected areas... works just as well that way... but I do like your idea Stormie that it may cause a barrier, so I may try that for Asher and see if that helps reduce his reactions... having a bad night here again <sigh>

Thanks for taking the time to respond guys... I really appreciate it. I do have both a very good vet and derm, and it sounds like the first place to start is maybe looking at a lower dosage, so I will make contact and ask about that. Both dogs here are on Phenergan 25mg 3 x daily. Asher had to be taken off his immunotherapy, as he was too sensitive (in fact that was when we first started seeing the reactions we are dealing with now). We've had problems getting the Pred into his system quickly, as he also has a lot of GI issues with the allergies and absorption is 100% we don't think. Atopica was thought to be not the best option in our case, as its not a constant problem, rather one that suddenly flares and then goes, and Atopica is designed for regular use, rather than as a drug that is administered as needed. In our case we've been using it as needed since before Xmas, and the symptoms have actually gotten worse... we also see side effects for a few days after - 5 days or a week even if he's had a couple of doses, not just a couple of days after. This is part of why its concerning me... its not something that seems to clear his system quickly. The symptoms we have seem to be a magnification of some of the symptoms we get from the allergy reaction, like the lethargy / depression / thirst. He is also a very foody dog naturally, but not to the point of the hysteria over food we see after Pred. As he is sensitive with chemicals, we do have to be careful of the potential for developing more sensitivities in this area as well, so I'll be discussing this with her as well. Our derm has had a couple of dogs that were severely allergic to Pred, and I have a good friend with a dog who is, so that has been in my mind with his reactions to it as well. I've read a fair bit on it to do with humans... some people's experiences are not nice at all! I'm glad to hear that its working well for you guys, and I totally agree on quality being so important... So we'll chat to our Derm about dosage and see how we go from there.

I'd like to hear from the people who use Pred for their allergy dogs... People I'm thinking of specifically here are Sas and Stormie, but anyone is welcome... I just thought of them because I know they've had to use it for their dogs' relief as not much else has worked. I'm wanting to know what your experiences is with side effects: have you had many, are they strong, anything you've found helps cope with them, etc.? I try to save Pred for the "really needed" situations with my guys, and I'm fortunate that I've been able to work up treatment and maintenance plans that have allowed me to do so. However; Asher's symptoms have morphed over the last year and a half or so and he has these terrible reactions with a lot of swelling, drooling and pain. If its a milder reaction, then an extra dose of antihistamines help. We've also found that olive leaf extract definitely helps keep them to a lower level (both in how often and how chronic). When he does have a chronic reaction, however, we have to use Pred. We are not using it long term: its a single one off 25mg dose when he has the reaction, this helps to settle it and then he's good to go. My problem is that even this is causing side effects that are quite strong: increased hunger to distraction, sometimes lack in concentration, sometimes depressed and lethargic, excess drinking and panting (which he gets from the reaction anyway, so it is magnified and he's also a big drinker naturally). Its not all the time that we see all these reactions (the hunger, panting and drinking are consistent, not always the others though), he had one last night and he's quite perky this morning, but I do see them. Once they are in his system, they do knock him out as well, but that's not ness. a bad thing as he can sleep through the remains of the reaction. We know he is chemically quite sensitive, so I'm wondering if he is just extra sensitive. Of course I am going to discuss this with our Derm, but I just wanted to see what other's experiences were like.

Yeah, they are... its like women where some have better skin whilst preggers, and others break out. From the stuff I've seen I think the impact is considered more so on bitches going through seasons, than on males who should have a more "standard" level of hormones. I can't say with my guys if its made a difference or not, as they were both done before they full symptom pattern had developed. I can say that they have both worsened / changed with age (developed more allergies and / or become more sensitive). Zayda also had generalised demodex as a pup, and season cycles have been known to trigger relapses with that too. I can say that we have never had a relapse with that, but again, that's hardly conclusive.

Yeah, as I said before, it is very much the same in AmStaffs... Hopefully, we can open up the dialogue on it a bit more as we go...

No, its certainly not just PB dogs that get allergies, as with anything the right combination of genes will produce it, regardless of the parents' breed status. I myself have a PB and a cross with allergic skin disease. Unfortunately there's no way to test for markers or anything yet, so it is a bit of guess work. I personally would certainly not breed from any dogs that produced allergies, even if they didn't seem to suffer themselves. And look at close relatives too: if your dog's sister / mum / grandparent etc. has allergies, then your dog may carry the potential to pass those genes on. I've been researching lines / dogs in my breed with allergies and looking at their relation etc. I can certainly see that there are several dogs related to my boy that have allergies or other related issues and that's given me a point to start looking at what I will keep clear of. Unfortunately you have to rely on people to tell you the truth about their dogs and their issues... hiding it away only perpetuates it, but plenty do so. I also see a lot of breeders that don't know why their dog is "covered in bumps" or has "red, itchy toes", or don't even really notice it because the dogs are in kennels and they don't see how much they are irritated. So the more we raise awareness, the more we will be able work on this issue I feel.

Interesting that it cleared up entirely... I wonder if it was something else then, other than allergies, as allergies shouldn't disappear like that? Skin issues are often quite complex! I'm glad it was a relief for her anyway... Good on you! I wish more people were able to make these decisions... they're often painful, but how great to be reducing health issues in your program!

That's fabulous news! Do you have any more info on it, I'd love to look into it a bit more? Nah I don't - I just remember researching Atopy and Genetic and found a uni who was planning it!! Found it!! LINKY That's really interesting, thanks... I might contact them and find out "where it is at"

It is often recommended to sterilise allergic dogs as, not only should they not be bred from, hormone fluctuations can really effect the skin condition of some.

We make a good "tag team" Some great info in your post like this: That's fabulous news! Do you have any more info on it, I'd love to look into it a bit more? Amen to that!

If it is the tree then that may well not be an allergy: it can be a contact irritation, like poison ivy... A true allergy is immune mediated and the only way you will have a true allergy is if you have the genetic predisposition. Many itches and irritations we label "allergies" actually are not. This is why its more appropriate to refer to "Adverse food reactions" rather than allergies when discussing food problems: some are intolerance as opposed to true allergies, and it can be hard to tell the difference. On the other hand you do describe other things that do sound like "hayfever" which is the layman's term for Atopic allergy... they ARE seasonal often, because it is when the pollens are in the air, for example. Changes (e.g. moves) can bring out symptoms that were latent previously because exposure to allergens was lower (just as some people find moving state or country can trigger asthma or eczema they never knew they had: both related to allergies). Some people also miss subtle signs in dogs (and themselves) when they have a very mild case (and you mention mild cases before), and allergy seasons have slowly been worsening in Australia so that more of the "mild" people / animals are effected in more noticeable ways. Allergies often start in a line because a "mild" case is bred and they slowly worse (for some individuals) in each generation. Those that don't suffer, still carry out the genetic material potentially too. The heritability of atopic allergies has been well established scientifically and atopy is much more common in the general population that people realise. Allergies develop as you age, so if the puppies are young (still in a litter) then it might be more likely that it is some sort of contact irritant rather than a true allergy, or you have a very extreme case. Farm animals, like chooks, are also common allergens... so a move to an area with more of them may have bought to the fore a previously mild allergy that didn't trouble the person in a less "chooked" area. It may even be that you have some true allergy in some, and something like a contact irritant in others... symptoms can be very similar. Seeing as you have a "family" of dogs there, it would be worth checking what it actually is, so that you know you are not breeding on allergies

Yeah... very much the same in AmStaffs, drives me nuts... I'm trying to raise awareness of Allergies and not let people stick their heads in the sand! Its totally not fair at all and I wish they could live with and see what our dogs suffer and how much it costs in time, money and emotion / well-being. ETA: Good luck with your boy btw, hope he's feeling better soon.

Relatively, yes.. When we first spoke to the Derm, she asked what breed of dog Orbit was and when we said Dane, her reaction was 'ohh noooo why on earth did you get a dane - I'm seeing them all the time'. Bummer Same in my breed, although many people don't want to admit it...

I was going to say it looked like Staph infection, very common to get staph infection with allergies... pair it with hives as well and that makes allergies a very likely culprit! ETA: For the Dane people: it appears allergies are quite common in the breed, yes?

I agree... I use a lot of complimentaries with my guys, but they wouldn't do diddly to keep their allergies in control if I didn't a) know what they were allergic to and take steps to keep them away from those things (including allergy agents in the comp meds) and b) Also use allopathic treatments as needed. ETA: I understand the want to give something a fair go and make sure its really not working... that's sensible with anything... but I think it has to be balanced with the fact that there is a very big area of help that hasn't yet been explored for your boy (I'm still amazed the vet wrote you off without suggesting a derm!!) and there is a good possibility of finding out what is going on and dealing with it quicker than a "wait and see" approach... I'm sure he'll thank you for it if there is a quicker resolution to his issues