zayda_asher

What suburb exactly - that might help people know if they can get there or not... Near the city still covers a huge area, if someone drives through on their way home or something, then they may be able to stop :)

And be aware that the more different foods you throw at him you a) limit the ingredient options you have when you do a real elimination diet with the derm, and this will leave you with only the exotic and more expensive options like venison and emu and b) exposure to more foods opens you to the risk of him developing more allergies / intolerances to these foods, which can leave you forced to feed the exotic and expensive options in the long term. Speaking from almost 11yrs of experience with two allergy dogs I can tell you that foods like VAN with its large, multi ingredient list is just shooting yourself in the foot until you know what you can and can't have. Here's a flow chart of a correct elimination diet:

I'll pass this info on to people in my network... I've got a letter, just needed to dig up the contacts to send to, so that's a handy list you've given, thanks :D It might also be worth including relevant federal people to send to, as they were talking of going federal. I'm also planning to send mine to the Gov Gen, etc. as they were getting involved.

Here you go This should take you to the right group. Have a look at the list and books and see how you feel... There is a detailed walk through of how to do a diet in the archives (maybe in the files too?). Getting her to formulate your diet is definitely a good option - she is a wealth of info!

You can also get Monica to formulate a diet for you. Of course it costs a little, but any specialist service does. It's well worth it IMO and the follow up care you get is meant to be excellent. I'm going to get her to formulate my next pup's diet, as puppy diets need to be spot on Edit: sorry about the typos in my first post.. Hard to change on the iPad...

No worries It's good to read them both together, they cover some similar ground, but complement each other well. I would probably pick K9 Kitchen first if you could only get one. But if you want to crunch your own numbers, then you want Optimal Nutrition as she got permision to reprint the NRC nutritional requirements for adult dogs. I think there are a couple of recipes as examples in each one, but one of the things you will learn is that each dog is individual and does best on a diet tailored to them, so she doesn't give a lot of recieps. If you look at her site though, there are a couple of pamphlets that have some general recipes in them and she does have some breed specific pamphlets too that address some of the common health issues in particular breeds and what you can do to help prevent those occurring, address them if they have occurred, etc. do you make up your dogs' meals based on her theories? how have you found the process? is it cost- effective? Hey Scruff Yes, I believe any additions are included and will change the balance. she has a yahoo group you could search for more info (k9 kitchen). I'm not as up on the kibble stuff, as we don't feed it, but you would find discussion on this in the list archives, I'm sure. I have used her formula and will do so again in the future. At the moment we are struggling through rechallenging foods with one dog for allergies, so once I know what both dogs can et again for now I will crunch the numbers again. It's a bit of work, but worth it IMO. I aim for balance over time, rather than being anal about it on a daily basis. If you are math challenged (that would be me) it is handy to have a mathy friend on hand to help. I personally don't find feeding home prepared any more expensive than feeding a premium kibble, but even if it was I'd have to suck it up, as there in no kibble my dogs can eat due to their allergies.

Good luck with the appointment! I suppose what they might do to test it would depend on what the vet felt it was. Some things you can do a fine needle aspirate on, they stick a fine needle into the site and get a sample of cells to look at under a microscope. Somethings might need a more invasive test, like a biopsy, and other things they might be able to visually ID. So I'm sure your vet will explain what they are going to do and why, if not don't be afraid to ask them

Did you find out what it is yet?

No worries It's good to read them both together, they cover some similar ground, but complement each other well. I would probably pick K9 Kitchen first if you could only get one. But if you want to crunch your own numbers, then you want Optimal Nutrition as she got permision to reprint the NRC nutritional requirements for adult dogs. I think there are a couple of recipes as examples in each one, but one of the things you will learn is that each dog is individual and does best on a diet tailored to them, so she doesn't give a lot of recieps. If you look at her site though, there are a couple of pamphlets that have some general recipes in them and she does have some breed specific pamphlets too that address some of the common health issues in particular breeds and what you can do to help prevent those occurring, address them if they have occurred, etc.

The best sources to read on this topic are Monica Segal's two books K9 Kitchen and Optimal Nutrition. They're easy to read and have all the formulas for number crunching and working out kilo/cals etc. You can add extras to dry, I think Monical Segal says no more than 1 third of the meal, or you will disrupt the balance (I would have to check that though, as that is on memory and may not be correct).

It could also be something like a sterile pyogranuloma that he's licked a lot and infected. Does this dog have any allergy / immune issues?

It looks like a Histiocytoma, which is benign. Most common in young dogs and Bull Breeds seem to get them a bit. Vet should be able to do a fine needle aspirate and check. They are generally self limiting and clear on their own. However, having said that you MUST get it checked, as there are other malignant cancers that can look very similar. So I wouldn't worry too much at this stage, but do get it checked to make sure

Cant see why the Nutro helped though as it has grains in which many are allergic to Maybe because the dog doesn't have a problem with grains. Thats the problems with allergies, so many people make assumptions. Yep, allergies are very individual... some dogs will have problems with some things and not others... It's only very recently (in 10 years of dealing with allergies) that we've had a problem with any grains here... certainly some grains can be common allergens, like wheat, as it's so commonly used in dog food / treats but that doesn't mean all dogs will respond to it and other grains that they have never eaten may still be fine for them. In the case of allergies what is good for the goose may not at all be good for the gander ;)

Me too.. there's only so many years you can bang your head on the wall, hey?

Specialists always cost a bit of money... maybe you can find out who is in your area and compare prices and then save it up? Going to the derm with my two certainly isn't cheap, but I'll tell you what: it's saved me from wasting and spending EVEN more money, which many people do by trying to go it alone / do it without the specialist It's not a problem that is going to go away, so managing it with your Vet whilst you save up the money could work My derm was really excellent at helping us work out a plan that allowed us to save when we were low on funds at one point: "We'll do ABC whilst you work on getting a new job and then XYZ can be done when you have the funds..." PS: Glad he's feeling better and maybe chat to your vet about the antifungal... if they felt you needed it, then it could be a very important part of getting his skin under control

A bit long winded don't you think Ok seriously though, point taken. Well bred Staffordshire Bull Terriers are not predisposed to skin issues. Interestingly we still see well-bred Labrador retrievers with a relatively higher incidence of skin disease. Parents who are fully health tested and have never had a litter affected by allergies can suddenly and out of the blue produce entire litters affected by allergies. There are plenty of pedigree "well bred" AmStaffs and Staffords with allergies. Plenty of people out there breeding from dogs that "0nly get a little bit itchy when they lay on grass". I've had breeders of both breeds say to my face "there are no allergies in my lines" and then go on to say "oh, she itches on the grass, but..." It's out there if you know what you are looking at / what questions to ask and its far more prevelant than people like to think. ETA: I say that as someone with a decade in AmStaffs and a long term owner of two dogs with allergic skin disease. I've spent that decade doing a lot of research on this issue.

Yep. A referral to a dermatologist is your best bet for a comprehensive treatment and management plan.

Yes, absolutely. Sadly a lot of breeders dont take the genetic predisposition to atopy seriously

Yes, I agree with both of you... this is what we are trying to focus on in my state. A pilot program would be excellent... As I said in the other thread, we're here if we can help with what you are doing Steve... just let me know and I'll take it to the others in our group.

Ah, thanks... so it wouldn't apply to other orgs anyway... Sounds like something that they used to allowed them to exclude the APBT club. I wonder if they might still try to use it to exclude non-breeder groups, like a BSL lobby group from being stakeholders? It would definintely be something for the Vic mob to look into and get on top of if they do look at setting up any such groups.

That's very interesting Steve, thanks. So is it in their dog legislation, or have they stuck it in some other legislation on incorporated bodies or similar? Just thinking most people might check the dog legislation, but not think there is anything they would need to check anywhere else before setting up... This would actually mean that a BSL lobby group, for example, wouldn't be able to be an "applicable organisation" if they are lobbying / supporting on behalf of APBT owners. So what does this actually mean for them? Are they able to still be an incorporated body, what actually is an "applicable organisation"?

No, I wasn't talking about the import ban, that's old news indeed... I was talking about the being recognised as an "applicable organisation" in relation to the ban

Just want to make sure I have this clear: the bit quoted above, that is from the Vic dog act / legislation somewhere? Is it new, or has it always been in there?

http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/general/constitution/chapter5.htm The American and Australian constitutions are two different things. Their 'Bill of Rights' is actually an amendment to their constitution (ie where it is the right to bare arms, the right to free speech etc) ours is not necessarily as clear cut as what you see on the TV. The right for states to create a legislature that they enforce is within the Australian constitution. The Federal court will not interfere until all the state courts are exhausted. Yes, this is what we were told years ago when we were looking in to it. We were advised that administrative law would be our best bet to challenge them on, as this is the branch of law that governs how the levels of Govt run everything. So finding a good administrative lawyer would be the bet bet, I believe. An expensive exercise, but someone may be able to find a dog friendly one that might to some low cost / pro Bono work.

In AST / APBT it is not an acceptable crop, so you can generally assume the person who did it to one didn't know what they were doing. You can also often see on them that the crop is lumpy, uneven and / or healed badly, all of which points to a backyard jobbie... I won't comment on other breeds, as I don't know about them