*kirty*

Oh, come on. A Cheetah is hardly in the same realm as a fox. We don't already have Cheetahs roaming the streets of Australia. A fox isn't going maul its owner to death. Foxes have lived alongside humans for centuries. Did you know that there are something like 10-15 foxes per square km in suburban Melbourne?? That's about triple the number living in rural or remote areas. They are used to being around people. They are used to the hustle and bustle. Even wild foxes become unafraid of humans when living so close to them. I was out on my front lawn one night when a fox just wandered past on the footpath. He looked up and noticed me, then kept on walking. So taking an infant fox and raising it with people and pet dogs is not that difficult. Of course, taking on adult fox from the wild is an entirely different kettle of fish and not something that would be kind to the fox. As for cats, there are a HUGE number of people in this country who hate cats and think they should not be kept in Australia. But people do anyway and what's more, its perfectly legal to let your cat wander the street and kill things! Pet cats who are allowed to roam cause more damage to native birdlife than foxes ever will! I don't believe that ANY pet should be allowed to roam, especially cats. I own 11 cats and am proud to say that between them they have never killed a single thing because they are safely confined to my property. If people can't contain their animals, they shouldn't have them - regardless of species. Pet foxes won't be allowed to roam anyway - they are to be contained. I think you are being rather harsh by judging the type of people who want to own an exotic pet. Not everyone wants one just to gloat about it. I personally just like unusual animals. I'd love lots of different species if I could. It's not about showing off, it's about appreciating all kinds of animals.

I really don't want to argue with you, but I can't stop... :) They say on their website that foxes that are unsuitable for rehoming will be PTS. So no, they are not rehoming everything regardless of temperament. I would assume it would be in their best interests to only rehome friendly foxes if they want to build the reputation of foxes as pets. I am sure these people did not just find a fox and decide to rehome it. I wouldn't mind betting that they have raised several of them before deciding to try and market them as pets. And as I said earlier, there is a LOT of information about fox care and management on overseas websites. Why does it need to be 'beneficial to the community and ecology' to have a pet fox? What other pets are beneficial to our ecology? Nothing in life is black and white. Nobody is telling you to get a pet fox. You don't even live in the same state as this group, so you are in no danger of having a rescued fox for a neighbour. In NSW it is perfectly legal to keep a fox as a pet. I like unusual pets, and so do many other people. You probably don't want a pet rat or pet snake either, but lots of people do. How about we give this group a chance before tearing them to pieces.

I have never heard of vets removing the sac. Normal desexing involves an incision being made above the testicles, testicles 'popped out' and removed, then incision sewn shut. Even in older dogs that were done, the sac is left intact. It will shrivel up eventually. My grandparents had to have their dog desexed late in life (I think he was about 10-11yrs) for health reasons and it shrivelled up after a while.

Why wouldn't they get help finding a lost fox? If this group are spreading the word about pet foxes, hopefully if a tame one turned up somewhere, the authorities could be called and the fox sent home. No, they don't have any guarantee of the fox ending up in the right home, but with the right screening of homes, they have the best chance of doing so. Look at some of the horror stories on here of breeders selling dogs to people who end up being dodgy. I completely agree that foxes are not for everyone, but I just wish people would stop writing it off before seeing it for themselves. I have spoken to several people who have kept pet foxes and all had the same experience as me. They were tame and friendly pets.

I know that, but unlike the Savannah cat, the fox is already here. I wonder if QLD has less wild rabbits than the other states, seeing as they ban the ownership of pet rabbits? I doubt it! ETA: I find a lot of this stuff highly amusing to be honest - quick, lets ban Savannah cats and foxes and whatever else because 'dey will kill all teh nature!!' Meanwhile, the government is happy to bulldoze whatever bushland and forest it can get its hands on...

People already can, and do, do this all the time. If its not illegal, and the people are responsible, who cares? Foxes are already here - just like feral cats and wild dogs, but nobody is banning them as pets. One escaped, desexed fox is going to do no more damage than the millions of other foxes out there already. As for scent glands, lots of animals have scent glands. As I said, a fox only releases its scent gland when it is frightened. There obviously is a niche for pet foxes, because they have already rehomed some. If it was legal here, I would have another one. They are amazing animals and can make fantastic pets. And just recently, someone was trying to get a permit to import silver foxes to sell as pets. Of course, the same principles apply as with any special needs animal - they must be in the right home. I can't see this group churning out hundreds of foxes and hopefully they will do the right thing by them. I know wild foxes are a problem, I know they can cause a lot of damage - but so do feral cats and wild dogs. So do rabbits, but you can keep them as pets. In the right situations foxes make beautiful, intelligent pets.

I found this page too. Not sure if it helps, but it says that with the more severe luxating patella problems, more than just soft tissue surgery may be needed. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1571132/ "Soft tissue procedures include medial desmotomy, lateral imbrication, antirotational sutures, and release of medial musculature. These procedures can be used in the immature patient to modify abnormal forces on growing bones and in mature patients to supplement bony procedures. By themselves, they are seldom sufficient to correct patellar luxation. Antirotational sutures are similar to the extracapsular sutures used for repair of the cranial cruciate ligament. They can be passed behind the lateral fabella and then through the distal part of the straight patellar tendon. Alternatively, the suture can be passed in figure-8 fashion around the patella after being anchored behind the lateral faballa." ETA: One of the links I posted mentioned something about soft tissue being caught up in the suture becoming necrotic. Does the joint ever get hot or look swollen?

I'm so sorry to hear this. Poor little puppy. If you feel that you can't trust the first specialist anymore, perhaps go back to the second. I've known lots of dogs that have had the De Angelis method of cruciate repair (with the suture) and none have had problems with the suture rubbing. Do you know exactly what procedure she had done? ETA: I see you said it was the CCL procedure. Have you seen this page? Warning: there are some gory photos if you scroll down but the first page is just writing. http://www.jorvet.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/CCL_Lateral_Suture_Brochure.pdf Another page: http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/saortho/chapter_81/81mast.htm

Also, with this crate she has learnt that she can get out of it. I would not be putting her in the crate until you get the new, indestructible one. Every time she breaks out of this crate, she is reinforcing the behaviour.

I just heard on the news that this little boy has died. RIP little one, thoughts with his family.

Well thats better than nothing. Hopefully it just needs mpre time. :)

Woohooo!!! Very happy for you both. :) And how did Pagan go?

Anne she was nervous of strangers, but very friendly with my family and people she knew. She was very active and playful, and could be noisy if she felt like it! When she got excited she would squeal like a banshee! She loved to run around the yard with the dogs and liked wrestling with the cats. I used to bury eggs in her enclosure for her to dig up and tie berries to branches up high so she had to climb, etc. :) I have heard that they can go a bit feral as adults if they aren't desexed. They can also be smelly but only when they release their scent glands. I think Loxy only did it twice the whole time I had her. Otherwise she just had a mild scent - not unpleasant at all. They are very popular as pets in the USA and that's where I got all my info on how to care for her.

Someone found her.

I found one grown up photo on my phone:

Her name was Loxy (original I know). I have some photos although I'm on my phone and her grown up photos are on my computer. Tiny baby: Getting bigger: Playing with the cat: About 4-5mths old:

Well they have to be healthy and friendly too, but yes at the end of the day the pretty ones get picked. People can also show unreg purebreds in that group. Will BYBs use the Crufts show to show off their dogs too?

Hopefully I won't get shot down in flames, but I'd like to share my experience. I took on a 3-4 week old fox cub. She settled with us within 24hrs. She bonded with my cats and my dogs, but she was *my* girl. She was very affectionate, very playful and of course totally beautiful. I loved her like mad. I had her for almost a year and she was safely contained in the house or her enclosure all that time. Unfortunately a neighbour spotted her through the window one day and called the DSE. The people I dealt with there were extremely kind and understanding but I had to have her PTS. I was lucky to avoid a fine and I know it was silly to take her on, but she was honestly an amazing pet. I loved her to bits and I admit I bawled my eyes out when I saw this post yesterday. People take on special needs pets all the time. People adopt demanding, higher-risk dogs all the time. If the homes are screened thoroughly then I don't see a problem.

Moggy and crossbred cats have been shown at cat shows for years. They are judged on health, coat condition, temperament, etc. But of course the 'pretty' ones always win. They must be desexed too. Its great for moggy owners, however certain breeders have also been deliberately crossbreeding their purebred cats to create Group 4 winners... I guess that would be my concern with the dogs too.

I looked at their website - they desex and rehome them. Apparently its not illegal in NSW. It is highly illegal in VIC though and there are astronomical fines for keeping them. They can make fantastic pets, and if desexed and contained, I really don't see the issue.

Omg I wish I had known about this last year. They are the most beautiful animals. How is it legal though?

It all sounds dodgy. The dog was probably having entropion surgery (eyelid lift).

Yep, had a blue one in today. Worst example of an SBT I've seen in a while (long, swayed back, shoddy legs - surprisingly its skin was ok), bought from a BYB with owner intent on breeding. It was diagnosed with a heritable condition and they were advised not to breed it. The guy was spitting chips!!

Yep, we see a lot of one-eyed dogs at work and they are fine. It does take them a while to adjust their vision (two eyes are best for judging distance, etc) but otherwise they bounce back like nothing has happened.

I'd probably get him checked by the vet and onto some ABs. Cat bites are nasty and almost always get infected. Silly boy!