Hownd

Heres my half arsed opinion A reward is something the dog finds rewarding, at a young age you are still able to significantly influence what this will be. Why would you spend time promoting food if your going to train in prey? It isn't, Its just different. To make a sweeping generalisation, go with what your dogs genetically predisposed to. Go for it. Without trying to open up a can of worms, Chase is just a component of Prey so why leave it out. A flirt pole is a good thing with pups. An old fishing rod or length of dowel with a light rope and rag/toy tied to the end. (drives em nuts) I've never stopped and haven't had any dental problems with dogs so far. Possible genetic prey drive is fixed at mating, how much and for how long you can promote prey in your pup is beyond me, some people will say 12 months others will say if you can still achieve further gains after 6 months you weren't doing it right to start with. I spoke with a guy doing a PHD on this exact question recently, I'll see if I can find his stuff and post you a link.

Eight dog legs, two human legs and one pushy.

Try 3 wires out at an angle, 2 positive and 1 earth that way she doesn't need to be touching the ground to get zapped. Have a look HERE for some good designs.

If you think mossie bites hurt then you had a different collar, if you don't think they hurt then you are way tougher than me. :strong:

Can anyone think of a method to not only make your yard escape proof but also modify the dogs way of thinking so that escaping is no longer seen as a deirable thing to do? It would need to be reasonably affordable, portable as I rent my house and be effective when I'm not home as thats when the little bugger tends to nick off chasing sheep. Yeah I know, I'm a smartarse but I'm home with the flu and I'm getting stir crazy.

afton we do agree on this one I've felt a zap from a collar on full and it hurts without doubt. Did it cause damage or longterm harm? I don't think so but my psychiatrist may disagree. :rolleyes:

Yep agree wholeheartedly, if you turn up the juice enough you'll get a yelp no doubt. Modern collars generally have a choice as to how big the Zap your dog gets is, from less than a static shock off carpet (you could comfortably hold onto this level for as long as you cared) to a decent zap that would leave you shaking the tingles out of your hand or stop a stock-killing dog mid chase. Ever accidentally leant against an electric fence? It scares the bejeezus out of you but physically you've forgotten it after a few seconds, mentally it tends to last a bit longer though. But what we're now talking about (and probably have been all along) is correct application of the tool not whether it's a valid tool in the first place. What would you do in the situation of abzndbonnie & kitkat? We're I come from that dog would be shot on site, (no questions asked) So abznbonnie is faced with a choice of consigning the dog to a chain for the rest of it's life or taking steps to confine the dog to it's yard before it gets shot. Would you prefer a dead dog, a dog living it's life on a chain, a dog in a yard it wants to escape but can't, or a dog that has earnt the run of the yard via lots of praise and affection and an understanding that there are consequences to breaking the rules?

G'day Eddy That's exactly how the sheepdogs I mentioned earlier worked with the collars. They had been taught the difference between the varied types of shock and knew the desired action, all this was with very low level shocks and I can assure you the dogs in no way considered it a correction. I thought it was an excellent way of working a dog at distances that make whistles and hand signals ineffective.

Then why pose the qustion in the first place? Couldn't get anyone to agree with you on the other forum and thought you'd have better luck here? You have yet to offer any evidence as to why they shouldn't be used other than "I don't like them" Take heart though Em & Taco have come to the rescue with Good to see some more considered and scientific opinions gaining a voice, good on you Em :rolleyes: OK if you offer up some form of legitimate argument I'll stop poking fun, honest.

Did you even read the training schedule?

Do some research on how these things are designed to be used, before you start spouting such strong opinions. Try HERE to see the recommended use for of the Innotec system. Tell me where it encourages or advocates zapping your dog into submission. Used correctly, these things have saved the lives of many serial escape artists. I've seen sheepdogs work using electric collars at great distances to great effect and they are in no way zapped into submission. In fact they start doing laps and spinning on the spot as soon as they see the collar because they know they are going to get to do some work. Haltis, slip chains, prong collars, flat collars and e collars can all do damage and inflict cruelty in uneducated hands. Used correctly they can all help you achieve your goals for your dog. Your assertions of "Zapping into submission" suggest to me that you have formed an opinion without the benefit of knowledge. Do some research, consider the facts, then decide what is right for you. The RSPCA know how much an uneducated opinion of e-collars can cost. Click Here for more info. I do not know the legalities of e-collars in any state, but I doubt the RSPCA or the manufacturers would be the people to go to for an accurate answer.

Thanks

Could you expand on this please? I'd like to know why a check chain isn't appropriate in conjunction with this method. I'm not trying to have a go or start a discussion on the ethics of using a check chain, I'm just interested in the reasons for it's non-use in this instance. Thanks

Scenting tricks are a lot of fun I've just finished teaching my B.C to find the "hot" card in a deck of playing cards thrown out on the floor. I started with getting her to find 1 card that I'd just rubbed vigorously between my hands and gradually extended it to where I can now rub the card, place it in the deck and throw them out on the floor, she wil search the cards and indicate the correct one quite easily. I haven't done it yet but am working towards having several people pick cards then getting her to smell one person and find their card. Try cueing your roll over or play dead with a "bang' and shooting motion of your hand, thats always pretty funny. I've put a rope on the door of my beer fridge and taught my old mongrel dog to "go get a stubby". I started off with my wife giving her the stubby inside, then I'd call her and swap the stubby for a ball. Once she was doing that fine I taught her to open the fridge and then joined the two up. She'll now "go get a stubby" from anywhere in the yard. The best thing about this one is that, unlike my wife, the dog never tells me I've had too much to drink and should go to bed.