hankdog

Yay for Lucy and Asti. My old boy had acupuncture for his arthritis and it also made a huge difference to his mobility, we are lucky enough to have a local vet who does this for dogs, very effective and would last about 6 weeks and then he would start losing his ability to sit and then I'd know he needed a top up. I've been working through the Aloff book and although it's very hard work and sometimes I just want to go for a walk, I don't want to care about eye contact or involvement, it has been hugely effective. To date if certain dogs are training in the park we can go in and train at the other end. If we see another dog out and about then he will most likely start barking then look at me, go "ok I have to go down now", will easily drop and stay there while getting treats. Once the danger is passed he recovers reasonably quickly and will walk on. I also taught him "run away", if the other dog is too scary- other reactive dogs or the local rottie who can jump up and put his face and front feet over his fence. Jake loves 'run away' and even stages his own fake dog attacks, a few barks, quick direction change and run like the wind!!!Surprisingly fast for a bulldog. :D How are the reactive rover classes going Snook, I have hope that one day soon we might be able to go to one.

The crazy things we do with our crazy dogs...last week I was at the local homemaker center. I looked around realised there were no cars because it was the lowest floor of the carpark and midweek and no chance of any dogs. Not the prettiest walk but I let Jake out and we had a good half hour of sniffing, and galloping around. No dogs and no rain what more could you want.

Maybe with your studying you haven't been acting the same to her and she's not scared but confused. Possibly act neutral don't make too much fuss of her just have some treats and give them to her if she comes to you. Maybe she's figured this new way of behaving is getting attenion. Also a nice walk, good for students and dog! Good luck for exams.

Took Jake out in the rain the other day, british bulldog part of him thought it was marvellous. Thing is other reactive dogs are the best to be around, Jakes best park buddy, at a distance of 100m that is, is a reactive pit-bull type dog. He doesn't want to play just as much as we don't so we can happily ignore each other. Editing my post so I don't look like a post hog. Today we threw a street party because Jake is officially the smartest dog on the whole planet!! We were waiting to cross the road and a group of people were waiting to cross towards us. In what seemed like slow motion the people in front of the group stepped aside and revealed a dog. We were standing about 6 meters away from an oncoming dog. Jake looked at the dog and then LOOKED at ME, I was still working out how I was going to cope with the impending tantrum so he made his own decision, turned 90 degrees and started running up the street away from the dog. Wow!!!

If you read through these threads it seems a common "feeling" amongst owners is that our dogs don't want to feel pressured to meet other dogs, I know that we shouldn't anthropomorphise our animals but I do think as we spend time with them it is valid to consider they do have feelings and if we can respect how they "feel" it must certainly make it easier for dog and handler. I'm working through the Aloff protocols and have come to the bit about training attention/involvement. If you had asked me a month ago I would have said Jake gave very little warning just straight into bark when he saw a dog and wasn't worried about anything else... how wrong I was. Basically when walking he is alerting on pretty much everything except me. He used to do what I term "catapult heel", he would stop until I was a step past him and then come bucketing past and wrench my shoulder. Of course that's because he was alerting on something and then catching up when the leash tightened. It really wasn't a problem of training walking at heel but an attention problem. So now I am waiting him out when he alerts on something until he voluntarily looks at me, (stared at men unloading a van for a good 5 minutes this morning) and then treating him for any voluntary eye contact while walking, it took about 3 days but he seems to have worked it out now. I think he's making contact, he probably just feels a bit hungry but hey ,it looks like the same thing!! It's a bit daunting because I feel like the more training I do the more I realise just how much there is to do. Anyway I do think this whole "involvement" thing is going to be key to helping him and I have an appointment in August with a good behaviourist so hopefully if we have got these basic things under control we will be able to do some more tricky things, like actually seeing a dog.

Well in contrast I thought I'd post my tail of woe. Had a good week last week, read the Brenda Aloff book and been paying attention to minutest bits of doggie info and working from the beginning through the protocols. Had 2 lovely sessions in the park with other dogs training on the other side of the park... real progress. On Saturday decided to go with my daughter for a long walk in the neighbouring rather posh suburb, very good for Jake as all doggies are behind solid brick walls and nice to look over and admire the beautiful houses. Started back to home without incident and then absolute disaster. A lady opens her gate and lets her spaniel cross out into the street, it makes a bee line for us across the road. My daughter volunteers to shoo the hound and I make off at some speed. She grabs the dog and calls to the watching owner for help. The dog struggles free and sets off after us. My hinkey knee decides it's a fabulous time to give way and down I go on the sidewalk. Jake is now barking hysterically, I'm hanging on round his neck with both arms and the dog keeps coming in faster. So terrified Jake backs up over me (thanks buddy) and there I am lying looking at the dog about half a meter from my face. At this point it dawns on the owner that her dog might be about to munch someone and she turns up and drags him away. So in terms of convincing Jake I am the way, the light and he should defer to me in dealing with other dogs... EPIC FAIL. So I expected Sunday to be a complete dog- hunt but somehow he recovered well and even my daughter remarked how well behaved he was on the walk. Loose leash the whole way and only minor infringements with the local fence barkers. Maybe he thought "Well despite how useless my owner is I didn't get bitten and hiding behind her was great cover so hey it's all OK!" Anyway I'm feeling pretty confident after reading all 425 pages of Brenda Aloff so this week I'm starting at the beginning of the protocols and we're going to work through and perfect every single one.

Justice looks like quite a big, solid dog so I'm sure if he had meant to do damage he could have. At the very worst he could have had a temporary brain-snap but reined himself in which would suggest he showed some control. If you think how bad this could have been then whilst you can't ignore the action at least it wasn't a full out attack. Maybe reactive dogs will never be "cured" and free to be let loose at the local dog park without a second thought but I think the fact that he can have a squirmy puppy right in front of him is a pretty good thing.

You're right Snook. Again I forget internet protocol. Just trying to work out at what stage it's appropriate to start thinking about attending such a class. There is a balance I would think between exposing a reactive dog to other reactive dogs so that they wind each other up rather than setting the example of being calm. Now that we have a threshold and can actually see another dog without barking I find that depending on what the other dog does can largely determine how Jake will react.

Sounds like a really good class although my ratbag couldn't go to something like that ...yet. So what was the worst behaved dog doing?

"Farewell" ?? Glad for your success, Padriac. :) I didn't actually notice this comment directed at Padriac before. Just because someone is having fantastic success with their reactive dog (well done Padriac!) doesn't mean they don't still have a reactive dog or need support and tips from other owners. Padriac can also probably offer a lot of helpful advice for the rest of us if his success is anything to go by. :) Sorry, not meant to be offensive, just wishing her well as she has had such quick success and probably wouldn't need to post. No offense meant.

Farewell padriac, happy that you have got your baby under control.

I would be really interested to know how the socialisation classes work out and what happens in them. I think that fee is pretty standard and seems to be including a lot of bonus extras, I guess you're not paying for 2 hours you're paying for years of experience. My little brag, Jake saw 2 dogs and didn't bark...Yay. We were trying to have fun, I feel like I spend all my time bossing him around so I was throwing chicken bits on the ground and letting him run and fetch. Two big dogs came running off-leash into the park, luckily they didn't see him but he looked at them, then me and then started making a bee-line for the street. It sort of supports my theory that he is terrified and just wants other dogs to leave him alone. anyway we left, he had a couple of looks at the dogs but I just kept talking to him and he made no noise!! Just a different way of looking at reducing the reactivity but since his reaction is so extreme I've been working on shortening his episodes from the back. Initially I just got him to sit and then gave him a treat as soon as I reasonably thought I had him under control. That way he gets a pleasant treat after seeing a dog but after some good learned behaviour. I graduated the sit to a high 5 and alternate this with a stay. I've managed to shorten the time that he's upset and can now get a stay with me standing behind him whilst he can still see the other dog. He still barks but less than before and with less "heat." We just keep doing our repertoire of tricks until he stops barking and then we move on. Seems to be working and at least he gets back under control before we move on so it doesn't spoil the rest of our walk.

Hi Megan, Funny how I can turn off my brain when dealing with Jake. I was doing the excercise verbatim so used yes and ok... Poor guy I use good and take for treats in the hand so thats what he was expecting.

Argh, the scourge of off leash dogs. I can't say what to do with your dogs, I haven't figured that out yet but I have bought a bright yellow 80cm long horse riding crop. I keep it on my belt and can swish it around so that owners that don't take note of my barking dog might realise I'm not so friendly. One man thinks it's hilarious that his snarling , snapping chihauha runs over to attack us. Apparently Jake is stupid for not knowing the chi won't hurt him! Yay best walk ever. I've been doing a intense 15 day sit/stay program, ignoring the barking and doing a trick or stay as soon as I can after an episode. Today I got him to sit across the road from a barking dog, one command, no place, told him to stay and walked backwards from him to the end of the leash. Started clapping and singing and he stopped barking to look over his shoulder to see what I was doing..... he never, not even once lifted his chunky butt out the stay. Did this on about 3 other fence barkers and even on a walking staffy (although only once we had crossed past him, don't think he would have stayed if it were coming towards us). Ok he's still barking but it feels like a huge step.

Mostly I repeat once then place but we're still on very simple commands. Different situations might need a different response though.

Yes I think Jake reads me very easily, far more than I read him, but I guess underlying that is the fact that he is so eager to pick up on clues that show I have spotted another dog. He has a big bite scar on the side of his face that was pink when we got him in March but I notice has turned black now so that scar must have been acquired quite recently. Somewhere a few pages back SammieS wrote to the effect that her dog is happier once the pressure is off to meet other dogs and this articulated for me what I had felt about Jake. He can ignore barking dogs that he knows can't get to him, I carry him into the vets and the other night had to carry him through a puppy class- no problem. What is quite telling is that I now walk with a long horse whip, not for Jake but so that I can scare away all the off-leash dogs on the street! So if I'm fearful of being attacked by others I guess he must be too.

The problem with Jake is if he sees another dog he barks, doesn't matter how far or close. In fact he barks if a dog barks on TV. I used to feed him if I saw the dog first but then he started barking if I fed him. He remembers where he has been rushed at by other dogs, I didn't walk past a spot for 2 weeks and I had forgotten that was where we had been rushed at so just walked down the road from the opposite direction to what we normally do. He had been on a long walk, was knackered and strolling along very quietly, 2 houses away and bam head up, pulling looking around a couple of half barks. He makes associations extra quick I've been training him to sit at cross streets for about 2 weeks, as usual no sign that he gets it and then suddenly last 2 days I don't really have to say sit anymore. I always cross the road to get away from dogs and there's no sit there, just a hurried exit. So yesterday when I got to the crossing a car pulled up and I stepped out quickly so as not to keep it waiting....Jake starts barking. I thought he must have seen a dog I didn't see so just hurried down the street. A bit later a similar thing happened...then it dawned on me he has figured out that if I quickly jump across the road there's a dog coming. So to other triangle temptation users... I started this yesterday and either he's been trained on this before or the sit stay protocol we've been doing has been amazing. I find it difficult to read him, bulldog wrinkles are cute but not so expressive. Anyway I put the food about 3m away, as soon as I stood next to him he looked at me, the food and back at me. Yes ,ok you can have it but when I unleashed him he wouldn't go, just sat looking at me. So I walked him over to the food, he started eating and I turned to go inside, he left his food and came with me. I guess his high separation anxiety outweighs his food drive. This morning I put the food about a meter away, again he looked between me and the food and I told him he could have it, he's mega starving in the morning so took one step to it but then came back to sitting. I stepped to the bowl and dropped a treat in and then he started eating. So I don't want to rush him but since he will stay until I make it very clear he can have the food should I just start on making him wait say 30 seconds before he eats. He makes associations so quickly that I don't want to confuse the little guy.

Fantastic idea Snook I've been trying to figure out where I can find a stationary quiet dog to practice on, vet clinic is a great idea for dogs under control. I've been really struggling to train the look excercise overiding all else Jake has major separation anxiety (he was separated in the pound from his mate) so unless he's looking at another dog in which case forget it or where he's going, he's looking at me. Still I've not been quite able to get the hang of it and last night my daughter was watching me try and said "which eye do you want him to look at you with." Doh!!! his eyes look in different directions so that's why I can't figure out when he's actually made eye contact.... hahaha.

Just when I think I'm may be making headway... We walk twice a day,, morning is a long training walk evening a short relaxing walk before bed. I have 3 roads I can take out the driveway, once we've had a dog rush us Jake remembers and goes into "dog hunt" mode if we take that road, head up, running to the end of his leash range and back etc. Our 3rd road was ruined 2 nights ago by 2 roaming fluffies. So I set off with my daughter on our evening walk and he starts with his nonsense, I'm throwing u-turns and sits and it's making no impact. So I ask him to down ... no way. If you know a bulldog once their shoulders are braced you will not push them into a down. So I lift him up, fold in the four legs and put him down. He immeadiately rolls onto his back and stays there. Great, time to walk "get up Jake." "Not on your life. You put me here and here I'm staying." So there we are, lying on the side of the road, I've moved to the end of the leash and turned my back on him and he just lay there for what felt like forever before he finally rolled over and strolled up for the rest of his walk. Sometimes he's just a jerk!!

The problem with all our reactive dogs is they're just too cute for their own good!! SammieS I would have huge trouble disciplining your doggies.

Mmmm I think this thread could well be titled support group for reactive dog owners... After all we are a group that could never meet. I never thought I'd say it but yay for the internet.

Oh boy I'm starting to understand why the behaviorist seemed to think he was wild and sent the other dog away. If Jake actually sees a dog he will bark, today he saw one at the other side of the football pitch and I thought he did well because twice I managed to get him to leave off barking and look at me and he didn't pull on the lead!! 10m away is a bit of a dream right now. On the plus side doing the sit/stay protocol seems to have made something click in his head, he got complimented by a ladies walking group for being so well behaved on the lead, staying left at heel and sitting at each cross street! Thanks ladies I'll take any positive feedback right now.

Well Kurrajong is just a bit over an hour away so we'll definitely get there once we've recovered. He's now know as a "billdog" rather than a "bulldog". I have as a goal to attend an obedience class but I'm not sure how that works for reactive dogs. Do they gradually just calm down and stop carrying on or do you sit on the sidelines for a few weeks? I'm doing the sit/stay protocol, first day was easy and I see the beginning of this forum has a pinned excecise called triangle of temptation that I think we could work on but I'm concerned about over doing everything and causing too much stress if every aspect of his life is so much of a trial? Has anyone done this with their dog? Thankyou for the replies, very much appreciated.

Thanks ChristineX I will give him a call, I think word of mouth is probably going to be my best bet. As it turns out the piece of fabric turned out to be the needle and thread I was working with shortly before he started choking. I was chatting while working and must have let it dangle, whilst under anaesthetic they also removed some excess soft palate that will help him breathe better. So no excitement for a week. I'll be working on the sit/ stay program I found on the internet called "Protocol for Relaxation" by Karen Overall. It gives a day by day task for 15 days, I'm good with clear instructions. I'll give Steve a call and hopefully set up a meet for once the throat is all healed.

Thanks I'm on Sydney North shore but really will travel anywhere in Sydney to see someone good, Jake is a car lover. Frustrating thing, is in a controlled situation I can slowly approach a quiet dog so really I need a practice dog to sit quietly. Mmmm anyone know a park where a couple of old dogs just lay in the sun?