hankdog

When I started with Jake I thought a few trips to the park would get him used to seeing dogs and then we would go to obedience classes and within a few months I would have sorted it all out. Two years later and I have an awful lot of experience and a managed but not cured dog. Steve was the first trainer who spoke sense and gave me a bit of insight into what I was dealing with but is too far away for me and I felt I needed weekly help. Finding someone you trust and who can accommodate both your and your digs personality is important. I'm a softie and Jake's stubborn so we are a tricky combination but with the right trainer we have made good progress in a way I am comfortable with. If the manner in which the trainer works doesn't sit with you I think it would be hard to be consistent or stick with it for any length of time which is why it's important not to get stuck with someone who has just one method. A good trainer will take into account timeframe, personalities and available resources and not just give you a one size fits all approach. Good luck there's also a thread for reactive dogs which is a sort of support group for all the norty dogs.

From me he loves it from a stranger not so much.

Second the above, without seeing the whole chain of events it's hard to know what's going on. There is a large number of behaviorists and if you say which area you are in people can recommend a good one, they're not all equal.

If you have your dogs with you you're best off facing them and making a big loud noise. At the least this brings help and if you keep facing they will hopefully back down and you'll be able to give them a suitable body part if they do give you a go. Apparently less dominant forearm is better as you can stay on your feet and try poke something in their ear or gouge an eye. Once you're down on the ground you're best going into a ball and that will protect your organs. Never run, I was backing away from a large boxer that was stalking us the other day, I was hoping to get to a trailer on the side of the road when a lady came walking along, she saw what was happening and started shrieking and running, the dog switched to her in a flash but luckily her screams brought people. I've heard of people throwing their dogs into utes, bins or passing cars. I've mostly found getting your back against something and yelling will keep the dog at bay long enough to get help but most if these dogs have been your average neighbour mutt I would hate to take on a really aggressive dog.

I get the pit bull thing which I suppose is standard for anyone with a barrel shaped dog. I have to play nice because if his reactivity but I always want to say " no he's not a pit bull he's a bullsh tedectir terrier or a Pre -judicepointer or maybe a ignoramus notifier or some such designer breed.

Very hard to know exactly when it's too far. I was asking this question with Hank for about six months. I came home one day and he suddenly had dropped his hindquarters and was in obvious pain. I left him at the vets overnight which I regret. Tough and I wish you strength, I don't think you exactly know when.

Jake hates border collies with a passion. The dog next to him in the pound was a BC, I wonder what he shouted at him for two weeks. Never seen another bulldog though.

Hank was a large hairy wolfy cross, at a 12 and under cricket match OH was sitting with the leash under the chair. Next thing Hank and a large black Newfie took off, cavorted onto the field and did some serious humping. Both dogs were imeadiately the property of no one.

Amax you speak of correcting a lunging dog as a poor level aggressive behavior however if the dog has a dog "phobia" for which flooding would be an appropriate treatment then a correction would perhaps serve to strengthen the phobia. I'm proposing that whilst an aggressive and a phobic dog will appear similar they would be qualitative different and treating a phobic dog as aggressive could be detrimental giving the dog a rational reason to fear the presence of a dog and increasing the phobia. Whilst there's no proof that dogs may have phobias the way mine acts suggests his learning style is similar to humans who are prone to phobias. Raineth I think the grain would be effective in stopping the feedback from physical movement in actually increasing anxiety. I wonder if it might also function a bit like a thunder shirt? I have a friend whose dog bites unpredictably, he came through rescue and is a somewhat impassive dog. Interesting if learned helplessness could explain his behaviour.

Jake couldn't take treats initially and then I read about licking being a calming action and thought of peanut butter. Initially just shoved it on his face but we have worked backwards and reduced some situations to a price of kibble through the spectrum to free access to the jar. He gets little food in bowl and most of his food is given as treats. He just expects to have to do something for food. Best training decision ever.

I'm really not understanding why her financial circumstances should be taken into account, all that should be considered is the hazard posed by the dogs. If they pose a risk to passersby then they need to be treated appropriately. Yes mistakes happen but if this person now understands what their dogs are likely to do then they should of their own accord be taking steps to up their containment. If they can't afford to do so then they can't afford these dogs. The public do not need to be exposed to risk because of the owners lack of financial resources. I'm appalled that on top of being subjected to an attack you must now go through further trouble HW.

That makes sense. For Jake it was a case of giving him a flight rather than fight option. If her natural reaction is flight then I guess she's never going to learn the scary thing isn't scary.

Sounds like she started out doing the right thing but has now gotten some legal advice. Now it all gets complicated and ugly and the lawyers make money. How for all concerned. I hope the dogs and you are feeling better today.

That's what you needed...more dog problems. I hope Sonny is okay. My experience suggests vet behaviourists will make a PTS decision sooner than a regular behaviorist. I wonder if their legal liability makes it so. I guess though it's up to what the owner is prepared to do. Clearly you're prepared to put the work in and you're responsible in your management of Stella which would make her less of a liability than a less reactive dog who with an owner in denial about her problems. It's interesting that you should interrupt her flight response. The trainers I've used have all spoken of encouraging a flight as a better alternative to fight. This morning we rounded a corner straight into the face of a very excitable ridgie youngster who lunged at us in surprise, I was so very grateful for my emergency u turn and flight response. We walked back past after crossing the road a fair way away and it went well but if it hadn't been for that first run away it could have been disastrous. Jake came home Saturday and apparently he leapt all over OH for about 5 minutes before he got in the car. I got home yesterday and he was happy to see me but after about 2 minutes started meaningfully wandering through his walking gear. He seems to have coped well, he's not particularly clingy and has just been his normal demanding self. I think with a dog like this the backup of a good kennel/ training system is vital. Last week was an emergency trip and how I would have coped without that system in place I don't know.

Just a thought and you may not be up to it but this could be the kind of incident that should be published in the local newspaper. It could serve as valuable information for those who think it's ok to let dogs out. I'm glad the owner is cooperating, this may be the first time her dogs have done something like this. I hope you can all recover as quickly as possible. Eat lots sweet Maddie.

Aiden if you don't mind can I pick your brains please. Can you expand a bit on what learned helplessness is and how it would look as a response?

How terrible for you, that's going to be hard to get over for all of you. Best wishes and big huggles for you and the dogs.

I just read the CAT page and yes it was more of a "flooding" rather than a true CAT that we tried with Jake. I guess his sight and sort of on or off at that stage meant that keeping him under threshold was not an option. If he thought it was a dog then he lost it. The only time he went for me was on a prong strangely. Even when doing the flooding I still gave him peanut butter to lick off my hands...eek now I think of it. If a dogs reactivity was more of a phobic response than a learned strategy then I think flooding might be effective. Could dogs have a phobia? How would a phobic response look different?

Amax-1 that's so true, and how many of the "untrainable" dogs will end up being PTS because the owners can't or won't access aversives. Not a great outcome. Corvus I wonder if these dogs would also be low on a risk taking measure, they get stuck just doing a behaviour in that same thoughtless manner. This I think may be why increasing confidence and especially the clicker training where they start to generate their own "new" behaviours can be helpful. It was a game changer for Jake. Alpha bet I'm in exactly that head space where I'm trying not to be rough but from watching how effective a bit of manhandling is I realize I have to be. Jakes in kennels this week and having training daily, I had started to realize at this point my trainers could take him through this next phase far better than I could. Circumstances just put me away from home this week but I'm thinking it wasn't a bad thing. I don't know how much research there is on human dog personality interaction but I'm sure there would be some interesting work to be done there. Wouldn't it be great if we could have a dog RSVP service.

Well I'm stuck in America this week and Jakes at the kennels and having training everyday. They've sent me a video of him doing class with other dogs!!!! I'm a bit jealous that I'm not the human taking him to class but very happy that he was able to go. I think this will work out for the best. We were getting to a point where I was too nervous to take him as close to the tester dog as the trainers were. Hopefully after a full week of training he will have got over the worst and I'll be able to handle him.

Happy birthday to a great dog!!

I am quite conscious that at times the peanut butter I oil Jakes brain with is either a distraction, a lure or a reward and I guess in the early days it was also an internally applied muzzle- it's very difficult to bark with a mouth crammed with peanut butter. So the grain would be a physical barrier or for your dogs disintegratus also a reward.????

Jake sleeps behind my knees in summer and spoons up against my back with his head on my neck or snuggles up to my chest in winter. Problem is he can turn around and you awake with a derrière for a pillow. It's quite funny because we have sides of the bed and he will get offended if you take his side, you wake up with him standing over you puffing and huffing because you are on his side.

Oh that's so cute, doggie time out. It's amazing that he knew what the naughty corner was, our dogs are so smart. I guess it's a bad thing but I think it's really positive that he could come back and realise not to "misbehave". It's great that he so clearly understands what's expected of him. Some kids I know could use a bit of that clarity.

I nabbed one of the dogs that hunts on my property, a serial offender with rather nasty owners. He was trying to get to my chooks. I had to hold him overnight because it was 5 on a Friday. When the ranger came the next day he wanted to let him go because he would find his own way home....! Not the point I wanted the owners to pay so it would affect their decision to not fence their yard. I do think it's a classic case of underfunding. I would think there should be a number of dogs in council area to ranger ratio but I bet most councils hire a token number. Pity some of those highly paid legal people who administer BSL can't be replaced with a ranger or two.