Jed

Yep, dyzney, I found the same. Spikes Puppy I thought that was a tricky question. A lot of them, imho, could have several correct answers, and some of them were only opinons and I think a lot of people would fail some aspect. With that particular question, the defining word is "socialisation", You can't "socialise" a newborn. Bu when do you start? And is touching a neonate "socialisation" at all. Too hard!! Problem is, everyone who embarks on breeding thinks they knew a fair bit. And they probably do, but the learning never stops. I've been going for years, and I still have heaps to learn (maybe I'm a slow learner). I do believe the CCs should either have seminars on a regular basis for beginner breeders, or recommend books for them to read. And then they should have a "real exam" - not too difficult, just to ascertain that people know the basics, and wont be swayed by what "people in the park" said, or some of the loony ideas that are out there. I learned from more experienced breeders, books and my vets. I was lucky that one of my first vets loved to teach, and I've been lucky enough to know some wonerful breeders who are happy to share their knowledge, but it's such an all encompassing subject, it seems that every week, I learn a few more things. I've also learned from disasters. But every mating, every whelping, every new litter presents new challenges.

It's hard to know who has too much time on their hands - PETA or Groundhog Club president Bill Deeley, or maybe the groundhog!! It's all pretty inane, but it's just another sign of PETA wanting and getting publicity, and not wanting anyone to interact with animals.

Oh, that wretched man. Will the rubbish never stop? And Dr Wirth's option for the injured kangaroo was? Bloody nothing. If they'd been able to call an RSPCA inspector and have him attend in under 5 days, the policeman wouldn't have had to do their job for them.The inspectors were no doubt out and about raiding harmless little old pensioner registered dog breeders, and seizing their well cared for toy dogs to dump them in the pound and give them some nasty diseases. Shame on you Wirth. You're simply a media prostitute, saying anything to get your wretched name in the paper. 2 shots was better than a frantic roo thrashing around a suburban street, in shock and pain and panic stricken. My congratulations to the polliceman for doing a nasty job quickly and as humanely as possible. No one likes doing that, he did the best he could, and he has been publicly abused. Do it yourself next time Wirth And don't bitch about that, Wirth when your organisation commissioned helicopters to shoot horses from the air, and left them neck shot, gut shot or with broken legs, or blown out ribs, or with intestines hanging to die as best they could, over as long as they needed, while their foals slowly starved to death. And weren't you employing shooters to pot some kangaroos somewhere? Wonder how many only needed one shot. Notice that didn't make the papers Disgusting organisation.

If there is something on a site which you think is incorrect, or wrong. email them and tell them. Fair trading has rules about ads, and they must be truthful - whether it is a rescue dog or not is unimportant, what is important is that it is wrong. Some of the breeds listed earlier are breeds. To even be considered a purebred, no matter what registry, the dog must be at least the 4th cross of purebred parents. The majority of Labramutts don't qualify, so the advertiser is misleading those who read the ads. The fact that the dog needs a new home doesn't cut much ice with me - there are purebreds and crossbreds.

I think it is a good idea, but I think the exam is confusing and badly worded. They could sort out those who know their stuff with something better than this I think. I read it when a friend was sitting it, and wondered who actually wrote the questions, very unprofessional. That was a couple of years ago, hope they have improved it

I wouldn't breed from a dog with it, and I try to check the line for things like this, which are not always poking you in the eye, so you have to be careful. (Sorry about the pun )

No one yet has discovered any linked genes between red/pink noses and agression. Red/pink noses occur in a lot of breeds - American Pit Bull Terrier, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Papillon, Chocolate Labradors, Yellow Labradors carrying a dilute gene, Border Collies, some Australian Shepherds, Kelpies and Collies. Those are off the top of my head, and I am sure there are quite a lot more, either caused by a dilute gene, or the colour of the dog itself. Some colours in some breeds have "self" coloured noses. Any cross of any of these dogs or breeds can have a red or pink nose. There is even a dilute colour in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, which always has a red or brown nose. It doesn't matter whether your dog's nose is pink, red, black or green, if you raise him right, and socialise him from puppyhood, provide good traiining and proper care, and treat him as the good friend he wants to be, you will raise a good canine citizen. And if you are concerned that he may have inherited his red nose from an APBT ancestor, be aware that there are far more beautiful, friendly, well trained APBT than the other sort. APBT have been, and are search and rescue dogs, detector dogs, aid dogs for the disabled, movie stars, guide dogs, trained army and police dogs and mascots, and good old homely family pets, who dote on their families and their children. They have been the pets of choice of Presidents and movie stars, not just sickos like Michael Vick. The pit fighters are the minority!!

Souff made the statement I have quoted below on 12 July 2004 on this forum. I hope breeders, and ANKC members will read it, consider it, and further consider that in the past 5 1/2 years, the RSPCA has become more committed to the ideology Souff has mentoned. And perhaps you will cinsider what can be done about it.

I am not sure what the breed was - but one dog is enough, imho. I've read a few studies on bloat - and couldn't find anything on ice or ice water although it makes sense to me. I wasn't feeding ice anyhow, so it wasn't important. Do you have links to any studies on bloat (with or without ice LOL) as I am always interested?

Report on a show dog, given ice at a show because it was so hot. He fell in a heap, rushed to the vet, vet said his stomach muscles had spasmed because of the ice. He was ok but it took a while, Vet warned dogs shouldn't be given ice. Said mosr dogs are ok, but a dog which was ok with it yesterday could die today. No idea where I read it, but I discount things I can't verify. And I thought about it ,and it made sense. Asked my vet (BVSc, MACVS blah blah), and she said "Of course you wouldn't f,,,ing give dogs ice or icy water, their stomachs could spasm, and they weren't meant to f,,,king eat ice either." And a few other choice things which gave the impression she didn't think it was real good And I never gave mine ice water or ice again. Because mine would be the one which would die!!

Never!!

tfn - sorry to hear that - hope the outcome is good Corrie - lots of franchises available Steve - just thinking about syringo makes me feel as if I might have it. There was no definitive diagnosis until dogs could be MRI --- and as the syrinxes regress - you might presume that has something to do with the flow of fluid, or not ---- who knows? Mita - too right!! I think there are too many people with too many agendas, each pushing their own barrow following PDE and illuminating things which are not a purebred dog thing. Many of these conditions are known in many or all breeds, including purebreds and in some cases, including humans. Not a "purebred" problem specfically. Which is why I think, if we are buying into the debate, we need to read unbiased research.

Title: Some Practical Solutions to Welfare Problems in Dog Breeding Authors: P D McGreevy & F W Nichols - 1999 Summary : This paper reviews the history of the establishment of dog breeds summarises current health and welfare problems, and makes suggestiongs about outcrossing and introducing new blood into established breeds. Also information on F1 hybrids, and hybrid vigour Link: http://www.terrierman.com/mcgreevey-some-p...og-breeding.pdf

Title: BREEDING FOR SUCCESS BY Bruce Cattanach BSc PhD DSc Discussion on inbreeding and outcrossing in purebred dogs. Demonstrates how to inbreed for success, and lists desirable qualities of parents necessary http://www.steynmere.com/ARTICLES9.html

Title CASTRATION OF DOGS Article by Mary C. Wakeman, D.V.M. an American Vet re castration of dogs http://brytestar.com/CASTRATION%20IN%20DOGS.htm

Title VACCINOSIS An article from the USA giving useful links re vaccinosis http://home.earthlink.net/~pawsreflect/vaccinosis.html

Syringomyelia Rodney S. Bagley DVM DipACVIM (Neurology and Internal Medicine) Department of Clinical Sciences, Washington State University, College of Veterinary Medicine, Pullman, WA, 99164-6610, USA Research into syringomyelia http://www.irishveterinaryjournal.com/Link...CESA_Jan_07.pdf

I thought I DID!! My bad. Moving now.

Writte by Rodney S. Bagley DVM DipACVIM (Neurology and Internal Medicine) Department of Clinical Sciences, Washington State University, College of Veterinary Medicine, Pullman. An unbiased study on syringomyelila http://www.irishveterinaryjournal.com/Link...CESA_Jan_07.pdf

Although many people do it, there are veterinary warnings out there about the danger. The cold ice can send the stomach muscles into spasms, resulting in a very sick, or dead dog. Obviously this doesn't happen all the time. I wouldn't risk it.

Lappiemum The thing I find most concerning about this is that you can breed a carrier, sell it on limited register as a pet, provide full disclosure to the buyer, and a couple of years later, they get the s#$ts with you, and complain. Buyers, in my experience are flat out remembering what was in the diet sheet you gave them, never mind some complicated explanation about a hereditary disease where their dog has the genes but not the symptoms. So, off they go and complain. If I was in Vic, I would make everyone who bought a pup sign a waiver to say that they did know the dog was a carrier, did not want to breed, and accepted that,. Then, when pushed, they say they were "only a pet owner" and could not be expected to know or understand that. They bought the dog in good faith, they decided to breed with it, and you are in the you know what. Just the hassle of some official turning up to find out what you did and didn't do puts me off. check through your records (if they don't seize them) find the buyer and the litter, find the signed agreement, find it isn't done properly, even though you thought it was. And things like this do happen. I've been breeding long enough to know they do. Greyshaft is only one of many people like him who want their pound of flesh. And the laws are incredibly convolvulted and difficult to understand,. Despite the Gov and RSPCA saying those laws are for puppy farmers, that is not spelled out, so if you have been breeding for 30 years, whelp a perfectly normal litter, the bitch is perfectly normal, but you don' t take her to the vet for a post whelping check, you are in breach of the laws, and liable to a large fine - and again, the RSPCA can seize the bitch and pups. It's not about doing the crime for me. I am a very law abiding person - it's about the RSPCA seizing my dogs. Poodlefan If a byb can't test because there is no test developed, they are in the clear. And they are impossible to find anyhow. And it may not have been a competitor who reported them - as with Judy Gard it may have been some misguided animal rights vet. It seems obvious that they are out to collar people. It will be interesting to discover the full story behind this. Jed Oh, dear, I think that has to be the freudian slip of the year.

I had a discussion with someone on this exact topic last week. We both knew of dogs that adopted out by a certain rescuer, neither were temp tested and when the dogs had issues crop up this rescuer gave no back-up and reprimanded the adoptees for not wanting to put up with the issues. Disgraceful. It certainly makes it hard for the rescue people who are doing the right thing. And if the dog hasn't been temp tested, or checked, and it bites the kids, or mauls someone, it gives ALL rescue a bad name, and prevents good rescues finding homes for deserving dogs. And the "rescue" (in name only) who rehomed to your neighbour is not a rescue at all. It's simply a disgrace. This is the one we know about, how about the dozens we don't know about. It has been apparent over the years, reading the rescue forum that some "rescuers" ought not to be rescuing at all, and they leave a trail of disaster behind them. Dogs not treated well, unquarantined dogs travelling all over the place spreading nasty viruses, no health checks, no care for the dogs, and no duty of care for the people who are taking the dogs, and less care for the poor fosterers. Sone rescuers, by their own words and actions, only dog brokers or puppy farmers. Yet if anything is said, those who raised objections are jumped on from high for being unfair, and for "picking" on rescues. Some "rescues" should be picked out of existence. And fast. Agree 100% jdavis,.

Spikes Puppy Absolutely. I don't often get it wrong - but I have a lot of experience. If I do get it wrong, I am there to help. I try to stay in touch - a quick note or email a few times a year. After a couple of years, you know whether it is ok or not. And by that time, they are confident enough about you to ask if you will take the dog back if necessary. Plus I make them sign an agreement not to rehome the dog without giving me first refusal. Hardly ever happens. And if it does, I take the dog back and find it another good home, or send suitable people around to look at it. I took a young girl back last year, nothing wrong with the dog, just unfortunate circumstances, couldn't be helped. Advertised her, got 57 responses, found her another nice home, she settled straight in. Breeding dogs which are reasonably easy to train, easy to live with, and (thanks lilli) with good nerves means people aren't going to have huge problems. They knew when they bought about size, shape, coat, temperament, so the adult dog shouldn't be a surprise. If I keep in touch, I can help with training issues, if there are any. If the stew hits and fan, and they need somewhere for the dog for a month or a year, I can help, and sometimes that makes the difference. When you are a single older lady and you fall over your half grown pup and break your shoulder, what do you do with the pup? What do you do if you are depressed, and don't think you can keep the dog, or manage the dog? If the breeder steps in and takes the dog for a couple of months, continues training it, when you feel up to it, you can take the dog back. Everyone, including the dog (who is the most important one) is happy. If everyone who bred did that, the pounds would be almost deserted. Apart from there being fewer of them to begin with, the reason registered dogs fetch up so rarely in the pound is because MOST reg breeders home their pups responsibly. But no matter what we do, the odd one falls through the cracks - but the "odd one" doesn't fill pounds, and if the "odd one" is carefully bred the pound should be able to find it a home quickly, and turn a tidy profit at the same time. And GOOD crossbred breeders do the same thing. There are people who breed x breds who are careful and ethical and who care for the pups, and where they go. JMHO