Jed

SBT - no, but one time she got on the scent of a hotdog, buggered off to ringside, and mobbed the spectators for some of it. Trial was over as far as she was concerned. Break for morning tea maybe? General laughter all round - how mortifying!! And I was s tupid enough to continue to do it!! Agility with a dacs sounds FAR worse than obedience, showdog ...and I thought nothing could be worse!! silly me. If I had some spare time I should have obedienced by ECS. She lives to please. When she was being shown, I taught her brother "sit". Next time I said "sit", they both sat, and she sticks like glue off lead. sometimes the dogs are wrong for the times!!

Those are the 2009 figures, not long released. Was the same story in 2008 One year they made the papers big time for dumping t he bodies in rubbish skips. this is not that story rehashed, this is a new one - 2009

Do they have proof it was anti freeze and do they have proof PETA did it? No proof as far as I know - which is why I wrote "just in case it is true" in my original post - but there is a lot of talk about it on us lists. Seems it did happen, seems PETA is being blamed. Not the first time, apparently. Happens quite often. This is not "official" notification, just what actually happened at the show by an exhibitor.

I think it is extremely unjust to take away her license for fines which do not involve driving or the car. We know nothing about the events which led to this, and I can see a number of scenarios which meant she was not happy about paying the $150 Some years ago, a dog was found out of his yard, and impounded by a council. The owner collected the dog the same day, and was faced with hundreds of dollars of fines. He rightly pointed out that the dog was correctly registered with the council, was wearing a collar and tag, and was loose for several hours only. The dog had been registered all his life - he was middle aged. The dog was not a serial escaper. The owner stated that the registration fee he paid should have been sufficient for the council to telephone him to collect the dog, or to return the dog to its home as soon as it was collected. He further stated that as he collected the dog from the pound within a few hours of impounding, he should not have been charged hundreds of dollars. As a protest, he refused to pay the fines, and the dog was pts. He featured in the paper - he said he would be devastated to lose the dog, but the system was unjust, and he would not therefore support it. I don't know that I could have done that, but I do understand where the owner was coming from. I'd like to see the full story, and no matter what it was, I don't believe that the government should be allowed to remove your license,which may well be your means of livlihood for unpaid fines which have nothing to do with your car, no matter what they are. The government already has means to collect money, as others have already pointed out, and that is what they should do. Talk about Big Brother.

This is supposed to have been verified from a few sources ... but?? Worth a read anyhow, just in case it is true, and happens here.

I think it depends on where you live, and maybe what time it is!! On the way home from work, I regularly see a liver and white cocker, a black cocker, a mini poodle, a golden, a black and a yellow lab, and a few other purebreds, including what I think is a pure JRT. A few ks down the road, there are mutts walking - brown ones, cattle dog ones, staffy crosses. A bit further, looks like oodles to me. I have often wondered why, and would love to see the demographics of the areas - just coz I'm nosy. and I am sure there are more DD than purebreds over all. Nice to see some purebreds though.

"PETA Killed 97 Percent of Adoptable Pets in its Care During 2009 Hypocritical Animal Rights Group's 2009 Disclosures Bring Pet Death Toll To 23,640 Washington, DC [WINDOWS-1252?]— Today the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF) published documents online showing that People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) killed 97 percent of the adoptable pets in its care during 2009. Despite years of public outrage over its euthanasia program, the notorious animal rights group has actually increased the number of adoptable animals it kills at its Norfolk, VA headquarters, to an average of 44 pets every week. According to public records from the Virginia Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, PETA killed 2,301 cats and dogs last year while only placing eight in adoptive homes. That means PETA found a home for only 1 out of every 300 animals at its headquarters. Since 1998, a total of 23,640 pets have died at the hands of PETA workers. Check out www.ADOA.org for more info."

showdog Sorry, OT. You just made my day!! Falling about laughing! I trialled a stand. dacs - as you know, very wilfull and determined dogs. Sometimes mine was excellent - sometimes she did something very similar to the yank (probably worse!!) .... and I got the same reactions!! Nothing changes!!

Jed, are you saying the 2000 study I cited at length is now discounted? But that is the one that says that feeding off the ground may be a contributing factor. edited: rereading your post I think I may just be confused by your wording, or you missed the previous citation, either way don't worry about it. Unless of course you're aware of something more up to date that refutes the 2000 study I cited, I'd love to know if so. Sorry, I wondered if I would be misunderstood. The study I read recently said the food bowls should be placed on the ground, not raised above it. Previous thought was raising the bowl up off the ground might help prevent bloat. In the study I read, several dogs suffered from bloat after eating from bowls which were elevated off the ground. So, the conclusion was that it would be safer to feed from bowls sitting on the ground.

Looks real to me.

CW, pat yourself on the back for making a timely escape from this turkey!! It could be worse, you could still be with him.

You ought to read the forum too - particularly the archives. This has also been done to death. It is not only pitbull owners who behave like this, it is some owners of all breeds and crossbreeds. thousands of pitbulls were going about their business, doing no harm to anyone. Until govs abandon BSL and enact existing legislation regarding DD, there will be no change in the stats, as there has never been any change; because BSL is a flawed premise. Draconian at best, totally unworkable at best. Labelling 90% of the dogs which attack as "pitbulls" might be good press, but it's hardly truthful.

Who glorifies fighting dogs? Caricatures are next in line for dog control measures a la PDE doco. As I've already explained, BSL isn't about the dogs, it's about the owners. The UK is reviewing the DDA and could see massive changes there, and b4 we know it, here as well. You glorify fighting dogs, for one. And so do many other people who come to this forum. You vilify the quiet easy pitbulls, the ones owned by families, the ones who starred in movies, and were owned by movie stars and US presidents, who did no harm. It is the quiet easy pitbulls and thousands of dogs who are brown and medium sized, who are put to death, the fighters are never seen. But the RSPCA aka PETA is happy If by "caricatures" you mean Staffordshire Bull Terriers, they are not about to be included in BSL. Maybe later. I notice the SMH is targetting them now. However, as all dog breeds will be decimated in due course, SBT will be too.

Pigs make GREAT house pets. Sorry And they are as smart as a dog. Don't need grooming or registration either. Go pigs!!

the research on feeding off the ground has now been discounted. That study was 2000. It is now believed that feeding off the ground may be a contributing factor. Yes, I have read studies, and yes, I could probably find them, will see if I can. I personally think feeding dry food is too risky. There seems to be a link between grain and bloat. I think 2 or 3 meals per day is optimum, no exercise straight after food. I have found the dog isn't keen to drink for a long while after eating. In one of the dogs I know which died of bloat I believe stress was a major factor. all anyone can do is avoid all the things which have been implicated in previous cases, and hope for the best.

Whilst the glorification of fighting dogs persists on forums etc, the bans have no hope of being overturned.

I too believe it is a hereditable quality. However, I would give a bitch who was a bad mother the first time another go. Experience has led me to believe that there are lots of reasons for a bitch being a bad mother and with subsequent litters she will be ok. Stress has a lot to do with numerous behaviours - eating pups, growling, refusing to feed, lack of milk. Of course, if they are terrible mothers with the second litter, there are no more. 99% of the ones who were less than ideal the first time were more settled and better the second time.

The down side to 2 pups together, apart from what has been written already is that they will tend to bond to each other more than to you. However, if you work long hours, and the pup will be alone a lot, two are a good idea for the company. If you would like a rescue dog and a pup, buy the rescue dog first, ascertain that he is well behaved, and will not teach the pup things you don't want him to learn, and once he is established in the househould (minimun of 6 months) get a pup. Ensure the older dog is not of a quarrelsome breed or type, if he is you will have problems. Never get a pup to go with an older dog unless the older dog is well behaved, as the younger dog will learn from the older. Some dogs are trained at 12, 18 months, so you can get a pup then, 2 years is just a ball park figure, and varies from dog to dog. Whether you start with 1 or 2 pups also depends on the breed. Some breeds are "easier" than others.

Same old, same old. The bite stats have been similar for 10 years to my certain knowledge, with changes in order - mostly ACD are at the top. Before BSL, APBT was still far down the list. If the stats are adjusted for probable numbers in breeds (or as much as they can be, as there are few accurate figures on breed numbers), the APBT is still far down the list. Breed ID's are often incorrect. If the neighbour's dog attacks, it is probably known what breed or cross it is, if a strange dog attacks, breed id is often a lottery. The dog may be identified by someone who is highly stressed, and had little dog knowledge. It was determined that BSL would be enacted in Australia. That followed banning pitbulls in various other places, notably Germany, because an APBT and a "staffy" attacked and killed a child. Both dogs belonged to criminal elements, and were used for fighting. I believe the APBT was believed not to have eaten for several days. RSPCA, notably Hugh Wirth, supported and encouraged bans. CCCQ supported bans, and offered to do breed training to council ACOs. BSL was first enacted in Toowoomba Q following an attack by a dog identified as a pitbull which resulted in the death of a senior lady. On PM the dog was identified as a "labrador crossed with some sort of bull breed". The dog had been accessed from the local pound by a youth who attested he would "make the dog savage". He certainly succeeded. The dog was destroyed, and Toowoomba banned pit bulls and Amstaffs - because they couldn't tell one from the other. Legislation was enacted, and all other Queensland councils followed. Other states followed as well. Prior to that the Murdoch newspapers, particularly the SMH ran a concerted campaign over years to vilify the pit bull to the public. Every week, there was a feature in the paper about the evils of the pitbull. Either a dog attack, or that the dogs had "locking jaws" or "2000 lb jaw pressure". One week, they ran out of attacks, so they imported a photo from o/s of two brown dogs rocking a car in Germany trying to get a cat under the car. Over years, the media campaign was successful, and by the time the bans were enacted, the public (most of which had never seen a pit bull) was terrified of pitbulls, and firmly supported the bans. As they still do. The influence on the media may be seen today in this forum, where people who have no experience with pit bulls (or staffies) show approval of the bans, and tell us that pit bulls are dangerous. BSL negated governments and councils' responsibility for dog attacks - instead of enforcing existing laws regarding all breeds, they could focus on the fact that they had banned those wretched pitbulls, and the public was safe. Of course, since the bans, councils have added other breeds to the dogs banned, or restricted, within their shires. Including Newfoundlands, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Maremmas, Amstaffs etc. At the UAM conferences I attended, it was quite apparent that councils welcomed BSL - some because they believed it would lower dog attacks, but most saw it for what it is. An out for councils' responsibility for dog attacks. Dogs are the single biggest problem councils face. justin 19801 is correct. BSL is part of a world wide campaign by animal rights to curtail animal ownership. The media beat up by the Murdoch newspapers followed similar beat ups in various countries, which were soon followed by bans. Tail docking bans followed, with similar negative publicity, so the public was in favour. As with APBT, the public was led to believe a lot of incorrect information. Now the extinction of purebred dogs, and breeding is beginning, with PDE, and various articles in newspapers vilifying and ridiculing pedigree dogs. Where once there was hardly any publicity on purebred dogs, now there is something negative almost every week. However, this ban will be achieved by squeezing breeders out. The number of pups bred has already declined, and will continue to do so. RSPCA is also squeezing breeders, and puppy farms. In 20 years, there will be no dogs. Nannas, you will not overturn bans on APBT by blaming other breeds. Whether they be crossbreds or staffies. Some progress was made in Q by beating councils in court. The only way ahead is to blame deed, not breed and to make that salient point in a rational, educated way to legislators. Alas, it is too late. And that's how it is. APBT went first, but the others will be picked off one by one, as per the directive of the European Convention. While we argue about tail docking, dog shows, whether purebreds are healthier, and whether the stats are correct. And Nannas, you are incorrect, the ban on GSD importation was not overturned by blaming other breeds. It was overturned by a concerted campaign by GSD supporters to educate legislators particularly shire councillors, at every opportunity. GSDs were banned in some shires, but not in all. I suggest you do a search of the forum over the past seven years, and you will find the issues you have raised have already been raised, and discussed.

Kissindra Don't know whether the pf raided in September (how time flies) had BC, but they certainly had more dogs than the RSPCA seized. Have no idea whether there were BCs or not. There are still plenty remaining.

Keysha, now playing over the Rainbow Bridge. kbrown, don't beat yourself up. Even if you had been there, I think the outcome would have been the same. The vet didn't just go on what you said to the receptionist, he did examine her, and did what was best for her - it was her time. And even if you had taken her earlier, I don't think anything much would have happened .... sometimes nothing helps. Something like this happened to me years ago - I felt very bad about it -but after a while, I could see that what I did made no difference. I just needed some distance, and the absence of grief to see the truth, and to be free of the guilt. It's shocking when you expect something minor which turns out to be major and you unexepctedly lose a beloved pet. Be kind to yourself, you did your best for her her whole life, and you did your best at the end too - and your best WAS good enough. Keysha knows that.

I dunno Jed, I've been reading the board for a while and I have a picture in my head of you. I'd be hard pressed to give all the details, but I know you're experienced, a breeder, and are good at sizing up issues. So I'd not barrel in and bark at you in bold that you "will not survive!" unless you take my advice. The key point I want to make tho' is that even if I did have that kind of message to deliver to someone, because of the nature of the message, I'd hope that I would be pretty careful about how I delivered it. Getting high handed on the internet doesn't do much but make the speaker (typer?) feel better. Fortunately now I've had 12 hours sleep and am not coming off the sleep deprivation of a 3 day show weekend I can see it was dopey to pull the "you don't know me" routine. It would have been better to let the pontificating sit untouched. Plenty of people know I'm a serious insect about my breed already and they know my breed is not for the faint-hearted, particularly in my state. Those that don't know don't matter. And maybe you just mistook someone who has no idea who you are, or what you are, who genuinely wanted to assist you, for something else.

OK, bring me own sherry in the pocket of my coat!!

In this thread you've told me to do a number of things I've already done. It's not apparent that you understand who your audience is, which is why you sound to me like you're reeling off a set piece. I haven't bothered with a resume but it's sufficient to say you have leaped in without checking first on this one. If you were looking for approbation and commiseration only, and not advice, maybe you should have stated that in your post? And maybe if you want the audience to understand who you are, and respond in what you consider an appropriate manner, you could post that information or your resume at the beginning of all threads?

No reason why not. Although some authorities suggest that bloat does run in families, and if you have a dog related to one who has had bloat, take extra care. However, it is the deep chest which seems to be the problem, not a hereditary condition.