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Justin 19801 Do you know the affiliations of those on state RSPCA committees? Haven't bothered for a while, but there were PETA members on committees when I last checked. Justin 19801 Who, ME? You have to be kidding!! Ask anyone. lili I have expressed my concerns to the CCCQ (Dogs Qld). It has occurred to me that the ANKC may think it is all a good thing. Breeder accreditation scheme = more $$ for the CCs. Unfortunately, the CCs, and the AVA don't seem to be able to grasp that without purebred dogs, the CCs will go the way of the dinosaur. Vets, particularly small animal vets (which most of them are these days) are also going the same way. No breeders = no vets. Too many people who can't see the wood for the trees, too many people sitting on their hands, t oo many people disinterested. Pups up to about 3 days old feel no pain when docked,because the nerves have not developed, and cannot transmit sensations to the receptors. The "old" people knew this, that was why they docked. We didn't know why our pups didn't care. Now we know. There has never been a fatal attack by a purebred Americal Pit Bull Terrier in Australia. Soon I'll be able to say - purebred dogs never did any harm, it's a shame we dont have them any more. The question is not that breeders will walk away, the question is at what point. Second generation matings banned? Some will go then, particularly a lot the more experienced and successful ones, who have kennels full of line bred, typey, healthy dogs. Outcrossing? The majority will go then, if the uproar about the bobtail gene in boxers is any yardstick Approbation by the public? Lots will get sick of it, and go then. MRI your Cavalier for syrinxes prior to breeding? At $1000 a time. Some will go then, particularly those who have never seen syringo. Who will be left? Some very new breeders, who will struggle on without any mentoring or advice, and after a few years of spending a lot of money, and not breeding anything much good, or being inspected all the time, endless forms, paying for a lot of tests, they will toddle off as well.

And who would own the Amstaffs listed as the parents of the APBT litter?

I have my own dog park. I am not a fan of dog parks. However, there was a period when I walked my dogs (on leash), and took them once or twice to the dog park. After my dogs being menaced a few times, I carried a walking stick with a knob, not a handle, and the next dog who approached showing aggressive body language got a taste of it. Before there was any real aggression or any fighting, or my dogs were damaged. I don't recommend this, because you need to be able to read the approaching dog, and to decide whether to take action before anything happens. If you wait too long, and the approaching dog is truly aggressive, you will exacerbate the problems, and escalate the drama. Until councils do as they are supposed to do, and take action about unsuitable dogs loose in off leash dog parks, the situation will never resolve. Go to a dog show, and see hundreds of dogs on leash. 99% of them interact extremely well with other dogs. People are passing with dogs, very close, plenty of opportunity for aggression, but it very rarely happens. Socialisation and training. Not breeds.

BZZZZT! WRONG!! DO NOT PASS GO!! DO NOT HAVE A CIGAR The RSPCA is controlled by PETA. The aim is to wipe out ownership of dogs. That has been the aim for at least 20 years. They are using exactly the same tactics they used to introduce BSL and anti docking legislation Vilify via the media Print any untruth which promotes the point Reduce the numbers to oppose your viewpoint Convince the public Run a major media campaign, preferably with some untrue documentary Get vets to support your cause When the public believes the lies, introduce legislation Purebred dogs are on their way out. They've been on the way out for at least 10 years. Ingrid stated clearly what she was doing, no one believed her. People will buy crossbreds. When there are no purebreds to cross back to, the crossbreds will be an endogenous stew of bad health, bad behaviour, and bad attitude. And then they will use the same tactics to wipe them out too. The public believed that documentary. Registered breeders came here and told them the truth, and they called us liars. I've had boxers for longer than a lot of the posters here have been alive, and I've never owned or seen a boxer with epilepsy. Nor have most other boxer breeders. Now, individual boxers may have epilepsy, but it is certainly NOT a hereditary problem. Whilst the public are jumping up and down about syringomyelia in Cavaliers, hardly ANYONE in Australia has seen it. There is no evidence it is hereditary. The incidence is 2% in Australia, and I suspect it is 2% in England too. They used the figures from Clair Rusbridges studies, which were from dogs suspected of having syringo, which were referred by vets in England. So now no one knows. Bassets were severely criticised for "furnishings". Winning Bassets in Aust have very few furnishings, and even the owner of the dog shown in the documentary said he was surprised he won!! Pekinese have managed pretty well for thousands of years without the RSPCA, incidentally. The ANKC doesn't have the funds to run a full scale media campaign. The time to do it was 20 years ago. It's too late now. If YOU don't like it, don't complain about the ANKC, do something effective. Do what they did in WA and NZ. Write to your local member, and tell him about it, and that he will lose YOUR vote. But you wont, of course, it's too hard, and so there will be no dogs.

SBT123 No one has the bottle to do the hard yards to challenge it. If it is able to be challenged. Is it? Yes, it probably is, depending on the laws, so the people with APBT, if they feel strongly about it, have the means to do something about it. Longcoat, if you don't understand the above, you will never understand it, no matter how I rephrase it.

There will be nothing on the net about labrador x as related to this. The dog was named as a pitbull by the media following the fatal attack. The dog was in fact, a cross bred obtained as an adult from the local pound. After destruction, a pm was done by the poundkeeper, a very experienced dog person (and judge), and he and several other witnesses said the dog was a "labrador x some sort of bull breed" The rest is as Justin says. . . . We have told you the facts, what more do you need. Mrs. Barbara Stringer was feeding the animals of a friend, who was on holiday. She stopped and spoke to the next door neighbour, who was the mother of the owner of the dog. The dog, which was in the neighbouring yard with the owner's mother, came up to the dividing fence and barked at her. She was holding a steering wheel lock (not 100% on this, something similar), and she waved it at the dog, saying "oh, you're a naughty boy", at which the dog hurdled the fence and attacked her, causing fatal injuries. The dog was seized by the council, and put down. When interviewed, friends of the owner ( who was a youth), said he boasted that he would make the dog savage. . . . What a joke. Seems to me that the facts are hard to come by . . . I breed Labs and find them much more inclined to go under than over fences, and I find very low propensity to HA/DA. Any black, yellow or brown med-large dog with ears that flop down and short coat is a Lab cross -- no? I've had people ask me if one of my girls was a Pit Bull. No intelligent person with any breed will deny that it's possible to have strong aggression in their breed. I think, given an accurate set of statistics, some breed tendencies would show up. I'm not vilifying labs, I am defending the pitbull, which was widely blamed for this attack, but wasn't responsible. It's about deed, not breed. The people who did the id did think that was what the dog was. The attack, imo (and that of a lot of other people) had nothing to do with the breed, the problem was the owner decided to |"make the dog savage" and he certainly succeeded. there should be something on the edba website about it. There used to be. Otherwise, you would have to access hard copy, probably Courier Mail or Toowoomba Chronicle, but what I've said is about all there is -- and more with the pm and breed id

That's good to know. Thankyou. So they say!!!!!??? As far as I know the use of hormones is banned under some obscure act and has been for 40 odd years.The the health dept randomly checked chicken in shops for hormones. How often this happened, I have no idea, and the fines were quite substantial. I have been feeding my bitches raw, including minced bone in chicken, and weaning and feeding the pups the same for the past 300 odd years, without any problems. Dogs I bred and reared like this have grown old and died of old age. I would suspect the atopy would be more likely to be from vaccinations, particularly if it occurred a few weeks after vac, and they were vac with C5 or C7. Unfortunately, there is no proof of anything, with things like that.

Longcoat Firstly, you are correct, Victoria. I have just read some information which leads me to believe that it is no longer banned. I am not making silly judgements. You have totally misunderstood my post. Whether deliberately, or accidentally, I have no idea. There is no need to write a tirade defending GSD. Please read and try and comprehend what I have written Sandgrubber There will be nothing on the net about labrador x as related to this. The dog was named as a pitbull by the media following the fatal attack. The dog was in fact, a cross bred obtained as an adult from the local pound. After destruction, a pm was done by the poundkeeper, a very experienced dog person (and judge), and he and several other witnesses said the dog was a "labrador x some sort of bull breed" The rest is as Justin says. I have no idea whether you can find it by googling. We have told you the facts, what more do you need. Mrs. Barbara Stringer was feeding the animals of a friend, who was on holiday. She stopped and spoke to the next door neighbour, who was the mother of the owner of the dog. The dog, which was in the neighbouring yard with the owner's mother, came up to the dividing fence and barked at her. She was holding a steering wheel lock (not 100% on this, something similar), and she waved it at the dog, saying "oh, you're a naughty boy", at which the dog hurdled the fence and attacked her, causing fatal injuries. The dog was seized by the council, and put down. When interviewed, friends of the owner ( who was a youth), said he boasted that he would make the dog savage. As far I know, there might have been one photo of the dog published in the paper, but after all this time, I am not sure. So many pictures of pit bulls, maybe pit bulls, and not pitbulls. the dog the murdoch papers always used as an illustration of a pit bull - brown dog, with a big head, apparently snarling at the camera, all teeth bared, was in fact a cross bred dog, with no pit bull, who was an inmate of a pound (Sydney, I think?) and he wasn't actually snarling, he was greeting the camera man. But, hell, he sure looked savage in the photo. that photo was trotted out for years. I very much doubt there would be anything direct regarding this, but you could check www.edba.org.au there will be something there, plus more information on BSL and here www.pethealth.com.au/Page/elderly-people-and-savage-dogs Sandgrubber No, labrador, as I used it in my original post referred only to the dog above, who killed Mrs. Stringer. Because he was id by a knowledgable person as a "labrador x some sort of bull breed". As far as I am aware, pitbulls are not generally referred to as "labrador x" in this country. As there is some diversity in type, owners when registering them with councils tend to name them as a cross bred of the breed(s) they look most like. And as far as the argument of staffy, amstaff and pitbull being the same, try to register your staffy in the APBT registry. I have no idea whether Amstaffs are accepted but I have a feeling maybe they are not. We could ask Nigel. If as much energy went into trying to overturn the bans, and had gone into stopping the bans before they were enacted, as goes into squabbling about whether the breeds are the same, or whether the dogs should be named something else, the bans would never have been enacted. Even now, no one is doing anything much effective. APBT owners said they didn't want outsiders, who were owners of other breeds interfering, they would take care of it. And there were more ANKC breeders working against the bans as APBT owners. What a joke.

I think, rather than the amount of space the dog needs, the things to be considered, whereever you live are activity level of the breed stimulation necessary to the dog for happiness busy-ness level noise level So, if you have a small garden, a dog with a high activity level is not the right dog, although a big dog may be. If the dog needs stimulation, and you can provide it, it doesn't matter how big the yard is. Busy-ness level - this would rule out a working dog, as most of them need to be doing things. Noise level - consider the original function of the dog - is he from a guarding breed, or a terrier? A guarding breed, even a small one such as a Tibetan Spaniel will bark a lot, it's what he was bred to do. A terrier will be extra alert, and will probably bark at any strange noises, more than other breeds. If I was considering a new breed, or a breed for a specific space, I would list the desirable qualities, and check out the information on some of the breeds I liked. It is amazing how finding out exactly what the breed is like - ie, barks a lot; lazy; active - will change your opinion. I think the type of dog to fit the available space is important, and if the correct choice is made, a lifetime of harmony should follow. No one shoot me - but I often think people choose labradors because there is a lot of information about them, and they have nice friendly faces. If people knew more about other breeds which would have the same attributes as a lab, but perhaps in another package, or with more of something and less of another, they would be happy with that instead. Not bagging labs at all. Nice dogs. GayleK - haven't read that Koontz book yet, but am longing to. Had to choose between that and his latest thriller, so went for the thriller. His style of writing has changed a bit, most of the books except his really early ones, feature dogs, mostly GR, and some of them are very dog, and rescue dog, orientated. But you probably know that already. The change in his style happened about the time Trixie moved in. He has another GR now.

Thanks so much for posting the photos, Nynka. I currently wrestle the trolley into the boot. I need a new car, and I would prefer a sedan, but was considering a small 4WD because it is easier to simply lift a trolley into the back of it. Heard about the trolley racks, and thought I could have a sedan, and a rack. Dogs also travel in the car. Those photos make it all very clear. Do you unscrew the ball, put the trolley rack on, and screw the ball back on to hold the trolley rack in place? Would it hold 2 trolleys? If I can't buy one, Icould get someone to make one from those photos. :D

What Nancy said. They do need maternal influence, and an "aunty" is always good. If they are making her raw by suckling, you can put some bitter bite (from the pet shop) or something safe, on her teats to discourage them.

Sometimes people who are involved in rescue, or rehoming dogs, or animal control officers deal with suffering, dying, and euthanasing animals for so long, they become hardened. That's when they begin to make comments like that. Doesn't happen to all those involved, but it does to some. I have seen people involved become more and more callous. The remark was made to you by someone whose usefullness to rescue has passed. Take no notice.

Adding anti freeze to show dogs water is being discussed on various lists in the US. It seems to have happened, as there were plenty of witnesses, and apparently the organisers of the show were putting announcements over the pa all day. The most relevant and succinct comment is this one, from an exhibitor. So it seems it was not an isolated incident. Sandgrubber, it is not the random horrible acts by PETA, or promoting themselves as a shelter, and then euthanasing all the dogs, it is the long term propaganda campaign they mounted which is the biggest worry. The success they have achieved to date shows that they are likely to achieve all their stated aims. They have stated and well publicised aims, yet people do not believe them. Ingrid Newkirk said that changing the language was important, "companion animal" had different connotations from "pet". She said that in 1998/9, when all pets were named as dogs or cats, or pets, even in scientific papers Now pets are referred to as companion animals everywhere, scientific papers, on this forum, in the newspapers, everywhere.

The OP asked that there be no discussion on the links to studies about dogs. I guess if someone wanted to post on the topic, they could begin a thread? I thought the idea was to have a reference for things people might want to read. I would like to see more of those topics posted for people to read, but I guess the forum users aren't that interested. Once there would have been threads galore about stuff like that, but not these days - different forum users,different interests, different focus.

Oi, you've all forgotten, you gotta have a DOG!!

What persephone said. And they eat grass when their tummies are troubling them - let him to it unless there is something wrong with the grass (poisoned etc).It will help him. Watch him, if he becomes dull or very unhappy or flat, off to the vet.

It's allowed, Sway, because membership is voluntary. If you know of someone abusing the COE of the canine council, report them. And no matter what is done, it will not prevent the dishonest. It will simply make things more tedious for the honest. And probably deter pet owners from joining. Breeders do often have more than one prefix - for two breeds, or a separate partnership.

Take him to the vet tomorrow, during surgery hours. There is no need for an expensive after hours visit, but he does need to be seen by the vet within a reasonable time.

The more science discovers about dogs, as tests are refined, the more we discover that we don't know. Dogs are far more complex with far more talents and abillities than most people realise. One day, in the far future, we will understand their talents and abilities, and will appreciate them as they deserve to be appreciated. We undervalue them because we do not understand them.

KKDD PETA was charged in the USA for euthanasing and dumping dogs in industrial bins. They told the owners they would find "good homes" for them. That is not rumour or innuendo, or something from a hostile website, that is fact. Charged and fined. And no, I'm not finding it for you. But it's out there. It's referred to in the other PETA thread

Musical dogs here too. But I do have 2 runs. Where did you get your run, Wynnlake? And how big is it? Looks like a good one.

The GSD was greatly demonised. In country areas it was banned because of the fear of matings with dingoes (which did in fact happen) creating super sheep killers, but also because it was feared that the GSD itself would kill sheep. The ban on GSD was a ban on importation, and a shire by shire ban on ownership of the dogs. I don't believe there was any restrictions on owning them in metropolitan areas, but no, they were not treated as badly as APBT was. GSD were believed by the public to be very savage. Banning schutzhund in Aust may seem like a very nearsighted decision to devotees, but in fact, it does help keep the breeds traditionally involved from charges of "dangerous, savage". Any dog which attacks may be labelled a pit bull, and usually is. I notice not as often now the bans are securely in place. Whilst the bans were being enacted, every dog which bit anyone or anything, was labelled a "pitbull", even if it was 10cm tall and black. It seems to me the reason why more and different breeds are being named in dog attacks, is so that further bans can be enacted in the future When Mrs Stringer was attacked and killed in Toowoomba Q, the headline should have read 'LABRADOR CROSS KILLS WOMAN' - NOT 'pitbull' etc. sandgrubber The pitbull was chosen for intial breed specific bans because it is not supported by FCI, ANKC, or AKC. It was numerically small, and it had a history which leant towards demonising by the media. Because it was numberically smaller than the rottweiler, there would not be the protests from the public, owners, etc. there would have been if the rottweiler had been chosen

I don't get it. PETA says it themselves, they say it in print, they say it at rallies, they say it in interviews, they say it at every opportunity yet no one believes it :cool: PETA'S STATED AIM IS TO STOP PEOPLE HAVING PETS. That has been their stated aim for at least 20 years, they have made great progress in that time, yet people still don't believe it.

Nickojoy Thanks for that, always pleased to know what opinions forum users have of us breeders. Very nice comment.

Cassie, as a breeder, I'd want to know. I think most breeders would. The reaction will be different - from admonishments, to "accidents happen", but most will offer advice and assistance, and that is what she will need. Hope it isn't my breeder, who would jump down the phone line, pull her hair out by the roots, kill her painfully until she is quite dead and take the bitch away. :cool: