Jed

malsrock Sorry, malsrock, I am afraid you are incorrect. The bite statistics in this country, both before and after BSL featured the same breeds - Cattle Dogs, Labradors, German Shepherds, etc --- "pit bull terriers" were far down the list. Unfortunately, like most of "the public", you believe what is presented to you by the media, which is that "bull breed" dogs perpetrate the most attacks. Certainly, the dogs which head the list are the most popular, but pitbulls are under represented by numbers. And when you consider that 10,000 "pitbulls" have been euthanased in Qld, and there has been no change to the bite stats, or the breeds which head the lists, you have to wonder exactly what good have the bans done? Except make a lot of people believe the pitbull is some kind of implacable land shark.

Thanks Robbi. I understand that following an indepth investigation Sweden (? Scandinavia? - check and get back to you) has reversed BSL. Meanwhile these are the 2009 dog bite stats from the USA, from KC's Dog Blog, which is usually correct. Lists the age of the attackee, breed or cross of dog and probable reason for the attack. Those interested (and those who believe all dog attacks are due to that implacable killing machine, The Pit Bull, which suddenly "turns: and kills someone) might find it interesting, and increase their knowledge at the same time. If people track bite information only by breed, without tracking the information by circumstances, the only correlation they can come up with for attacks is by breed and have missed the most obvious conclusion. Sorry for the length January 05, 2010 2009 Dog Bite Fatalities Final Report This is my least favorite post I do every year because I don't like dwelling on the negative stuff, but because there is a lot of misleading information out there on this topic that I feel like having all of the attacks in a central location will at least allow people to have easy access to the actual data. Before I get into the information, there are a couple of things that I want to note: 1) Fatal incidents are extremely rare. With about 75 million dogs in the US, and 32 fatal dog attacks each year, they are such a statistically anomaly that decisions on "breed" aggression should not be based on such rare incidents. By comparison, the US Population is 300 million (4x the dog population) and saw over 16,000 murders (500x the number of dog-related deaths). If only humans could be close to as safe as dogs. 2) When you look at fatal incidents, the circumstances surrounding them usually follow a couple of different criteria that will become obvious when you read. It is my hope that by seeing the circumstances behind the attacks we can eliminate many future attacks so these tragedies can be avoided. 3) If people track bite information only by breed, without tracking the information by circumstances, the only correlation they can come up with for attacks is by breed and have missed the most obvious conclusion. 4) The vast majority of my data, including breed ID, comes from media sources, so they come with the inherent ID issues that come from visual breed identification and from media mis-reporting. 5) The difference in media exposure for the different breeds of dogs is extremely notable. So with that, here are the years attacks. The attacks are listed chronologically, -- and links go to my original writeup. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Chyenne Peppers- 5 years old - Thomasville, GA - was playing in the backyard alone with 3 'pit bulls' who were all chained in the backyard. One of the dogs was pregnant. The dogs broke their chains and attacked the victim. The incident happened in an area where people are 50% more likely to be living below the poverty line than the national average. Alex Angulo- 4 years old - Chicago, IL - the boy was left alone in the back yard with 3 dogs while the father ran a snowblower out front. The dog that was blamed for the attack was a Rottweiler, although there were two other dogs on the property. The dogs appear to have been outside-only dogs. Brooklynn Milburn- 3 years old - Ft. Worth, TX - Was playing in the back yard by herself and reportedly climbed through a hole in the fence into a neighbor's back yard where the neighbor's Rottweiler attacked her. The story ran in 170+ media outlets across the country. Brianna Nicol Shanor- 8 years old - Beaver County, PA - The girl was staying at some friends' property and was attacked and killed by a "Rottweiler Mix" that was one of of several dogs on the property that were chained to an old camping trailer on the property. The attack occurred in an area with a very significant poverty issue. Olivia Rozek- 3 weeks old - Bourbonnais, IL - the infant was apparently left alone in a bedroom and the family's Husky pulled the baby from the bed and into the hallway - -the child died from the injuries. The Story was reported in only 1 media outlet. Unnamed - 2 weeks old - Mesa, AZ - the mother left the child alone to go to the restroom and while the mother was away, the family's Chow Chow bit the child...killing her. This story ran on only a couple of local news stations. Hill A. Williams Jr - 38 years old - Rancho Mirage, CA - was attacked by two Bull Mastiffs. Authorities reported that the man may have been trying to separate the dogs who may have been breeding at the time and was attacked while trying to separate them. Dustin Elija Fauk-ner - 3 years old - Wayne County, GA - The boy was out with his 5 year old sister when the neighbor's Husky broke its chain and attacked the small boy. This story ran in only one local newspaper. Tyson Miller- 18 months old - Luling, TX - The boy woke up and wandered outside unsupervised at 12:30 in the afternoon while the rest of the family slept and up to a pregnant 'pit bull' that lived on a chain behind the home. The boy was attacked and killed by the dog and the boy's mother was charged with criminally negligent homicide in the case. Luling, TX is a small community with nearly double the national poverty rate. The story ran on more than two dozen news sources. Izaiah Cox- 7 months old - San Antonio, TX - The young boy was being cared for by his grandmother who left the child alone when she went to the kitchen to get the infant some food. The boy was then attacked by two 'pit bulls' that lived in the home and were left alone with the boy. The grandmother later got indicted because the dogs had apparently attacked a different grandchild a couple of years prior. This particular zip code in San Antonio has a poverty level that is more than triple the national average with nearly 40% of the population living below the poverty line. The story was picked up by over 250 news outlets. Michael Landry- 4 years old - Morganza, LA - Three Boxers that were owned by the neighbor got loose from their kennels while the kennels were being cleaned and attacked and killed the young boy. The poverty level in Morganza is 50% higher than the national average. The story was picked up by 3 local news sources. Gordon Lykins- 48 - Winterhaven, AZ - The man was attacked by 11 "mixed breed" dogs that were roaming at large as Mr. Lykins took a walk along the canals in Arizona. David Whiteneck, Jr - Adult - Dwight Township, MI - The man was attacked by three dogs that were described as Australian Shepherd/Blue Heeler crosses. The story was picked up by only a half dozen local news sources. Leonard Lovejoy, JR- 11 months old - Eastpoint, MI - The boy was reportedly in bed with his parents when the family's dog - a 'pit bull mix' - attack the child. The dog had apparently shown aggression to strangers before. The story was picked up in over 300 media sources. Barbara Chambers - 60 years old - Garland, TX - Ms. Chambers was attacked by her Great Dane. The dog was apparently an award-winning show dog, but had apparently been in fights before with her other dog, a standard Poodle. Friends of Ms. Chambers have speculated that the two dogs may have gotten into a fight and she had gotten in the middle of the fight. While a couple of media outlets covered the initial attack, none reported her actual death a few days later. Gabrial Mandrell - 3 years old - Johnson City, IL - The parents apparently put the boy in bed and went into another room. The boy then knocked out a window screen and went out into the yard carrying a stuffed animal. The boy was then attacked by at least one of three dogs in the yard -- 2 pit bull mixes and 1 Collie mix- at least one of which was chained to a tree. The story was covered by 27 news sources. Justin Clinton- 10 years old - Leverett's Chapel, TX - Was attacked by a neighbor's two "pit bulls" that jumped over a 3 foot tall fence that was being used to "contain" the dogs. The story ran in hundreds of news sources from around the country, including national media like USA Today. Isreal Pope, Jr- 96 years old - Pickensville, AL - Pope was out for a walk and was possibly attacked by a pack of wild dogs -- although it is not 100% clear if Pope was attacked by the dogs before or after he died -- and officials were not sure if they would ever know. For the purposes of this report, I've included it as a dog bite fatality. Pickensville is a small community in Alabama with a poverty level 3x the national rate. Carter Ridge Delaney- 20 years old - Leesburg, VA - Police think that Delaney's brother's "pit bull type" dog got inside (it was usually kept outdoors) and attacked his mother's Pug -- and that Delaney was injured (and killed) in an effort to protect the smaller dog. This story ran in 54 media outlets. Lothar Karl Schweder (77) and Sherri Schweder (65) - Georgia - The couple went out for a walk to find their dog that had gotten loose and were apparently attacked by a group of 16 feral mongrel dogs that were badly malnourished and "very aggressive" toward humans. Unnamed - 3 days old - Rio, WV - Apparently the mother saw the two family dogs "acting strangely" looking at the newborn boy and attempted to move the German Shepherd away from the infant and then the "pit bull" pulled the child off the bed....killing him. Kathleen Doyle- 90 years old - Phoenix, AZ - Was attacked by an American Bulldog that got loose from its back yard and she died 6 days later. The attack was covered in only one media outlet. Jasmine Dean - 23 months - Orange County, VA - The mother apparently became preoccupied while the young girl somehow got out of the house and wander up to a neighbor's 'pit bull' that was chained up in the back yard of their home. She was attacked by the dog and died. Colton Smith- 17 months old - Merced County, CA - The young boy was staying at his babysitter's house when the sitter left him alone outside "for just a few moments" with the sitter's parent's dog who was staying with her temporarily. The dog was officially declared to be a pit bull/akita mix -- although it was called just a 'pit bull mix" in the majority of the 400 media outlets that covered the story. Matthew Clayton Hurt- 2 years old - Prescott, AR - The toddler and his three year old brother were staying at their babysitter's house and wandered four blocks away. The younger child followed a little puppy into the back yard of a house four blocks away and ended up getting attacked by a chained up 'pit bull' that resided in the back yard. Prescott is a small town in in rural Arkansas with 1/3 of the population living below the poverty level -- which is 3x the national average (and 2x the state average). Prescott passed a breed ban only days after the boy's death. Destiny Marie Knox - 16 months old - New Albany, MS - The child was staying at a babysitter's house when one of the five 'pit bulls' that was usually kept chained in the yard got free, got into the house and attacked the young girl. 20% of the people who live in New Albany live below the poverty line -- 66% higher than the national average. Karen Gillespie - 53 years old - White Mills, KY - Gillespie went out to take pictures of a one room school house in the country when she was attacked by a White Boxer that was owned by Howard Miller. The dog had apparently attacked a US Census Worker who had come by the Miller's home earlier this year. The story was covered in 8 newspaper outlets. Rosie Humphries- 85 years old - Flora, IL - Ms. Humphries was out walking her dog when a neighbor's 'pit bull' broke free from its collar and attack Humphries' dog and killed Humphries in the process. The dog was chained up in the yard using a massive log chain. The event was reported in 22 news outlets. Lowell Bowden- 70 years old - Rural Lindside, WV - Bowden was out for a walk in the in the rural hills of the county when hunters found him getting attacked by a pack of four or five dogs that were roaming at large and were described as "pit bulls". Dallas Walter(s)- 20 months old - New Port Richey, FL - Reports on this are so contradictory, but the majority of the sources indicate that the boy was staying with his family in his Great-Aunt's home when the Great Aunt's dog, a Rottweiler/Lab mix which was usually kept chained outside, got inside and apparently attacked the boy who was holding a cookie. The dog was new to the family and had lived with them for only 2 weeks. Theresa An Ellerman - 49 years old - Norfolk, VA - Was bitten by an Alaskan Malamute owned by some friends she was visiting. The dog bit her in the neck and apparently due to quick and severe swelling, the woman lost the ability to breath quickly and died shortly after. Liam Perk- 2 years old - Cape Coral, FL - The boy was apparently bitten by one of the family's two pet Weimaraners snapped at the boy and bit him in the neck and the boy died less than an hour later. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In total, there were 33 dog-bite related fatalities (32 events) in 2009. -- 16 different dog breeds, or mixes thereof, were involved (counting 'mixed breed' as it's own category). -- 9 cases involved chained dogs -- 8 cases were in areas that were affected with high poverty rates -- 4 cases involved packs of feral or near feral dogs -- 3 involved newborns -- of the 5 incidents that were covered by 150 media sources or more, 2 involved 'pit bulls', 1 involved a Rottweiler, 1 involved a pit bull/akita mix (that was widely reported as a 'pit bull mix') and 1 involved a Weimaraner. -- There were 7 incidents that were covered by fewer than 6 media outlets, the breeds involved were Husky, Chow Chow, Husky, Boxers, Australian Shepherd/Blue Heeler mixes and a Great Dane. Yes, apparently all attacks are not created equally in the eyes of the media. The attacks fall into roughly 4 categories: 1) Children under 1 year of age: 5 fatalities -- 3 of the children were less than 3 weeks old. 3 different breeds of dogs were involved. Introducing a child into a family with a dog can be tricky, and takes a little dedication by the owners/parents. This is why I recommend any newly expecting parent to read sites dedicated to dog training with young children. I interviewedthe founder of one such organization, Jennifer Shyrock of Dogs & Storks earlier this year and this is a great first source for expecting parents who own dogs. 2) Children 1 year to 5 years -- I've chosen this division because this is roughly the area where children become mobile, yet are still too young to be truly able to deal with most situations unsupervised. 13 of the fatalities fell into this category -- 8 different breeds were involved. In 9 of the attacks, the child was left unsupervised -- in 4 of those, the child left the house under their own accord. Chaining appears to have played a role in 8 of the 13 attacks (I'll talk a little bit more about this in a separate post later in the week). 3) Older Children - 5-15 years of age - There were two attacks here, two different breeds of dogs involved. Chaining was a factor in one of the two attacks. 4) Adults - 12 victims here, in 11 different incidences. Nine different breeds of dogs involved. In 5 of the cases (6 victims), victims were attacked by a pack of dogs -- with anywhere from 3 to 16 dogs being involved. Most of these cases involved wild or feral dogs. In two of the cases, the victim got in the middle of two other dogs either fighting or breeding and was attacked. Four cases involved individual dogs (with four different breeds involved). Six of the victims were over the age of 65, with 3 of them being over the age of 85. It appears that major improvements could be made in preventing these attacks if we did the following: 1) Worked harder to educate new parents how to socialize their pets with newborn children. 2) Emphasized supervising younger children when they interact with dogs. 3) End the process of leaving dogs chained 24/7 as their primary or sole form of containment. 4) Educate owners that early signs of aggression should be dealt with through training and socialization and not avoided. Many of the dogs involved had previously shown signs of aggression. 5) Deal with large packs of wild and feral dogs.

I dunno MM, I have read historical accounts of village life through the centuries where the village was a true community - there are plenty of accounts. Even in the "dark ages", things were not really black. Life in Aus 40 - 50 years ago was much more community based than it is now.

From someone who had a maremma - yep, slow to bite but could, and would bite very very hard. Friend's maremma killed foxes with one bite. Bite force of various animals has been measured (by Brady Barr for a National Geographic program, and others) . Bite force depends on the size/weight of the animal Hyena 1000 lbs Lion 691 lbs Shark 661 Rottweiler 328 Pitbull 235 Adult Human 170 Labrador 125 Bite threshhold not to be confused with bite force And owning a GR x Maremma would be, imho, a recipe for total disaster. Ditto BC X maremma. The idiots who breed them have NFI what they are doing and care less. No potential pet owners who had any idea would buy such a potentially dangerous cross, but the people who do buy them do so because they trust the breeder/pet shop and because the pups are as cute as

Please explain how me disagreeing with your statements is now "bullying". How tiresome that accusation is becoming on this forum when people seek to distance themselves from their failing arguments. I would remind you I'm not the one who suggested that another poster's vocabulary was lacking. Personal attack anyone? I can only recommend that you read the studies, read the bite stats and do your own homework. There isn't a case on record of breed specific legislation reducing the incidence of dog attacks in a community. I commend to you the study on the impact of owner education in reducing attacks in Calgary in Canada. There is plenty of hard evidence about that on the net. None of this is rhetoric. The evidence is there for all to see. Perception is NOT reality when it comes to breeds and the danger they represent. I'm sorry but there is simply no evidence I can find to support the efficacy of breed bans. If you can come up with some, please post it. I'm over it sorry. Like I said, you can't convince me that some breeds are not more dangerous than others. I'm so sick of hearing news stories of attacks and you people always going in defence mode with your " It's the breed not the deed" Sick to death of it. Shame really, I hope you are more open to new and different ideas in your breeding endeavours :D

Interesting that those who don't agree with you are bullies. You can continue to believe that certain breeds are more dangerous than others, so can the public, because they have been brainwashed by the media over the past 10 years. However, I would have thought a dog owner and breeder would have been more rational and not been prepared to be brainwashed by trashy reports in the media. And would have understood dog behaviour a bit better than that. While the public believes in the myth of the big bad pitbull, two things happen. Councils don't properly investigate dog attacks, so they continue, and rise in numbers, and governments, knowing they have successfully banned a breed for viciousness, also know they can ban other breeds for whatever reason in the future. And until you, and the public believes THE FACTS, which are that fatal attacks have been perpetuated by St Bernards, GRs, Labradors, Irish Setters, Boxers, Fox Terriers, Huskies, Dacshunds, Akitas, GSD, Great Danes, Basenji, Pomeranian, Collies Doberman etc etc etc, not only pit bulls and bull breeds, nothing will be done to address the many causes of fatal dog attacks.

Podiful As a matter of fact, they do. They have always done so, ever since govs began trying to introduce legislation to ban pitbulls. If there is an attack on a person by a lab or a GSD or a poodle, it receives much less air time than an attack by a pitbull on a cat does. I had proof, but unfortunately, it has gone. Every dog which attacks is labelled "pitbull" by the media, who have scant regard for the truth. But I do have some US informatiion - in Kentucky in 2005, there was a fatality by a pitbull, and another by 2 mixed breed dogs - reported as pitbulls. As soon as the second attack was ascertained not to be by pitbulls, the story was dropped. Stories such as "Pit Bull Attack" where 2 pitbulls were supposed to have attacked an elderly man and his small dog. Neither were injured. So, where is the attack? I never see anything about other breeds attacking like this, although it does happen. Don't be led by the nose by the media!! I've posted in the past in the BSL forum about which breeds have caused fatal attacks. You might be surprised. A Fox Terrier killed a child in Australia - at about the same time, another child was attacked by a bulldog, and suffered only bruising. It is not the breed or the size of the dog which is important, it is the level of bite inhibition, and that is determined by many factors.

I can't find any references in there at all. Maybe it's me! There are so many sites which disagree with each other, I am now at the stage where I want proof, numbers, and great details. Suspicious? And while we are discussing MVD - line breeding invariably comes into the equation. Here's a strongly line bred Cavalier, show winner, healthy and long lived. She has 5 lines to Eng Ch Homaranne Caption http://www.cavaliers.co.uk/articles/craigowl.htm

Mother Moocher Just my ordinary glasses, and burning witches at the stake didn't happen over the entire 1800 + years we lived in villages and the neighbours had a pretty good idea what was going on . (Except if they came to dol, I guess ) It is obvious, even from the sparse news report that life was perfectly normal for the family, until life went pear shaped. Then the woman lost the plot - big time. Because she couldn't cope, she walled herself off, and became obsessed with the computer. I don't think this is the normal "cruel b####rd" case. This woman was suffering as much as the kids or the dogs. In times past - someone would have noticed that things werent going welll, maybe the neighbours who dropped in for a cuppa, or her friends, or someone else, but no one did, so the kids suffered, and the dogs starved to death Not everyone who is affected by a horrible life changing event goes "la la, it's all good". Some suffer from serious depression for prolonged periods, and different people cope in different ways - or do not cope at all. And there may not have been enough food available for the children to give to the dogs to keep them alive. It doesn't seem as if the kids were doing too well either. Allowing the dogs to die in the house, as well leaving the bodies there are not the actions of a "normal" person, yet according to the newspaper report, this woman had been normal. I can imagine how this could happen, without any bad intent, but I suppose not everyone can see that. She couldn't cope with life, so she simply withdrew from it, ignoring her life, her pets and her children.

from the newspaper report

Just forget about it, no harm done. Except to your eyes!!! And sorry, desexed boys can do this too

Not a typical case of MVD Tian. 50% of dacshunds have MVD at 10 years of age I would like to see a reference to where the dogs in the study were sourced. However the number of CKCS bred in Aust by reputable breeders has once again fallen. Unfortunately the most reputable ones and therefore least likely to breed dogs with problems are the ones who are not breeding. I have no doubt that the incidence of MVD and SM will rise in this country. A self fulfilling prophecy

Yep, me too. Every Cav I've owned has died in his/her teens, from "old age" or age associated problems, not from MVD. I have one dog who has had a murmur since 8. She is 13 or 14 now, quite well, never been medicated. Friends of mine recently lost their 3rd cav to MVD. He was 7. Every time, they buy a cheap pup from the paper, because they wont pay the $200 extra for a registered, healthy cav from a breeder. Every time, it has died of MVD or something at 6 or 7. Every time, I tell them the extra they have spent on vet fees and meds, and the loss of time they had with their cav cost them a lot more than $200!! There are cavs, and then there are Cavs!! Need proof? Check this out. 19 years, 17 years, 18 years. http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/start.htm And the breeders' cav list has a lot of breeders advising that a cav who is well into his/her teens has died- or had a birthday party. asal Yep, dogs should be scanned by a specialist, but a GOOD vet with a decent ear can call a murmur or a pre-murmur, and they should be checked annually, and re-scanned frequently Bet Hargraves No.

How tragic, the poor woman was escaping from severe difficulties in her life because she couldn't cope, and in so doing, caused more tragedy. So sad. When we all lived in villages, someone would have noticed that she wasn't travelling so well, and would have called in, but today,no one has time, and the cities are too large and impersonal.

You would get more complete answers to your questions if you asked the breeder, who knows the pup, or the petshop where you bought her.

TBCSITW loved Little Bear Evie all his life. Many's the night they sat together on moonlit ridges. waiting for the blue men to appear. One large and one small, close together, united in purpose, each giving the other company and support. Many's the night they coursed through the woods together, giving tongue, working as a team to capture little blue men They worked always as a pair to bring pleasure to their owners. They grew old together, at 11 and 11 1/2. Two old dogs who had always loved each other. On arrival in May, TBCSITW did not totally revel in the empyreum fields, knowing L'il Evie was not by his side, could not share his adventures He had the 4 friends he grew up with and who accompanied him on his journey over the bridge., There were other dogs he knew and loved who predeceased him, and awaited him over the bridge, he was ecstatic to see them, particularly his friend Nina who was his surrogate mother, but he had no companion to share his interest in the little peoople. He sat at the end of the bridge and called L'il Evie - he told he needed and missed her. She heard his call and responded, as she had responded every time in the past. A lovely old dog, now young and glowing, she and TBCSITW patrol the verdant fields and crystal rivers together, happy and together at last. Be happy, dear Sagittarian, L'il Evie has reached her destiny, with her lifelong follower by her side, in a place where there is no suffering. all the chickens are BBQd, the steak is rare, and the blue men are slow and happy to be caught. :D :D Rudyard Kipling, who understood so well, left us a message ... may it help your heart We've sorrow enough in the natural way, Our loves are not given, but only lent, At compound interest of cent per cent. Though it is not always the case, I believe, That the longer we've kept 'em, the more do we grieve: For, when debts are payable, right or wrong, A short-time loan is as bad as a long-- So why in Heaven (before we are there) Should we give our hearts to a dog to tear?

Jed it is not Joe Hockey, he is a liberal and a current federal opposition front bencher. He is not promoting any dog legislation anywhere (by definition a liberal would be opposed to more governement). Joe Hockey has nothing to do with any of this. The person you are talking about is Joe Helper, he is in the Labor Government which is currently in power in Victoria. He is the person who wants to make more legistation agaisnt dog breeders. Sorry, I guess that shows my level of interest in politics Hockey, Helper, they are all interchangeable And the pollies don't need to pussy foot around. It's all too bloody easy. Simply pass ONE piece of legislation - banning the sale of puppies in pet shops Australia wide. Clover Moore's bill would have succeeded if she had kept is to ONE piece of legislation. And watch the puppy farms fold. More than half their sales will be gone, the profit wont be there any more. Give me a minute and I'll figure out how to stop them selling on the net, and all their sales will be gone. But no one in government will do that. PIAA is too powerful. There is too much money in pet shops. They dont want to lose the votes. So they will keep pussyfooting around, giving real breeders a hard time. I very much doubt that they want to stop puppy farms. They want to stop people breeding and keeping dogs.

Check out Bunnings, they have quite decent hard plastic ones. I bought my grooming box at the $2 shop

How gorgeous is a poodle, or a PWD, when you see the photos? Why wouldn't the public like one of them? What's not to like? (Think I want one myself now ) Friend's poo has the PWD hairdo, and he sure is popular. I didn't think poodles or PWD were particularly high drive? Both breeds should not be difficult for the average owner, as the labrador is not difficult. But, he is a biggish, intelligent dog, and needs training, and an owner who is a bit smarter than he is.

No, not a member of DogsVic. Be interesting to see what the coming legislation says -- if it happens. Who knows? Joe Hockey may not be re-elected. Anything could happen.

Pam, those are the existing regulations. What we are discussing are proposed regulations, dependent on Joe Hockey's party being elected. I have no idea how legislation will achieve the result we would all like to see. I owned 3 boxers. Only 1 had ever had pups. One was 3 yr old and would probably have a litter or two in future, the other was 2 and I had no plans to breed her at all.

Group 3?? Jed faints. Yep, good luck to the breeders. I hope they succeed. The majority of the public buys labradoodlies because they are promoted, and incredibly cute as pups. Who wouldn't want one? Portugese Water Dog, Irish Water Spaniel, Spinone are totally unknown to the general pet buying public, and of course, the dogs are harder to acquire but they would be eminently suitable. And they are just as cute as pups. Not to mention the poodle, which, imho, has copped totally unwarranted bad press. Friend has always had a standard poodle, for about the last 100 years. Always with what she calls a "working" hairdo. Latest one is brown (chocolate? red?), with a very bad do - I suspect she does him with the electric hedge trimmers!! He is an awesome watchdog, totally obedient, and collects new friends as horse manure collects flies. New friends have nfi what he is and want someone just like him. That's how people choose dogs. And from TV - it's only a very few people who properly research the breeds

Gretel Gawd, mine go all pathetic, turn their noses up, and say "no, too hard, we can't eat this". I must be breeding cavs with very weak jaws!!

Yes. They do sense your feelings - eg an on leash dog going for other dogs, because the owner is frightened he will go for other dogs.

It's probably too early to comment..... but I checked ads in catalogues for specialty shows, nationals etc for those I would consider "better" and "ethical" breeders resident in Vic and in 99% of cases, they have more than 5 breeding age dogs. Note, the release said "dogs", so presumably that means dogs of both sexes, not just bitches From the news release, I gather that "rogue" breeders will be those with more than 5 dogs, and so they will be shut down, and the council will seize their animals. I'd ask "what can the government be thinking?" But I know, alas.