Jed

And have you asked yourself, or someone with extensive dog behaviour knowledge, whether a bitch who does this should be forwarding those genes into the future? Do you feel comfortable breeding a bitch which, even though hormonal, wants to kill her daughter in a fight? Danes are a big dog, and any aggression at all is more a problem than this type of aggression in a snall breed. Either way, I would not breed her - for the good of the breed.

Geo .Deja vu - "we" said when there were no pitbulls left to fight, they would fight amstaffs, staffies, rottweilers, boxers, GSD. And they will. Pffft to the bans. One of the problems with the bans were that owners told everyone their dog - no matter what it was - was a pitbull - and they still do it. I guess if you are physically challenged, owning a pit bull or would be pitbull gives you a bit of street cred Good breeders whether they breed pitbulls or pekinese, always try to do the right thing.

geo geo, I know what you mean. I am not in favour of breed bans. However, the government was encouraged to ban breeds by various bodies (not the ANKC by the way). The rationale was that generations of fighting lines did produce dogs which were savage, and which should not be in public. I don't have a problem with that rationale - it's true. However, banning a whole breed and condemning thousands of harmless pets to death was over the top. And the real fighting dogs were carefully hidden away. A few were nabbed, but not many. There is some disagreement about the divergence or not of pitbulls, staffordshire bull terriers, and amstaffs. I don't own or breed any of these, but recorded history seems to state that the 3 breeds were separated. The UKC was formed in 189?? to register pit bulls. They attempted to remove "pit" from the breed name, but owners objected. To be accepted for registration into the UKC, the dog had to have won 3 fights. This requirement was dropped later. In 1930 something, the AKC decided to register pitbulls too. The original name was staffordshire bull terrier (I think, I know "pit" was removed from the name) and the dog was later renamed American Staffordshire Bull Terrier. The CCCQ stepped away from the pitbull bans, saying "not our breed", which is true. When a court case ended with a judge stating that pitbulls and Amstaffs were the same breed, the CCCQ went to bat for the dogs which were registered with them - Amstaffs - as they should have. The succeeded in having the 2 breeds declared separate again by the government, so Amstaffs were safe. Registered Amstaffs particularly. Now, that may seem unfair, but if my breed was Amstaff, I would have wanted the CCCQ to do something NOW. And they did. The argument used was probably that the Amstaff was about 70 years away from "game bred" or fighting lines, so was safe to be in public. If people are breeding Amstaffs to look big and muscular - that's up to them. If they are breeding with dogs who are not actually Amstaffs, they are probably not going to be doing it for long. Only until the registering body discovers it, and does something about it. People tend to think they are a bit of a toothless tiger - in some ways they are, in some not. If your dog menaces a judge in the ring (first time) he gets a holiday - every single time. If you are fudging your registrations, they will find out, and they will remove your membership. A lot of the volume breeders are ex ANKC breeders who got the heave ho. And it had nothing to do with volume, but with their ethics or lack of them. Lots of small breeeders have had the heave go too. And it will continue to happen. The ethics of dog breeders are within the breeders themselves. You cannot give anyone ethics, you cannot force them to behave well or decently. You can ask them to sign any amount of codes of ethics or whatever, and if they are dodgy, they will continue to be dodgy. If they are decent, and ethical, breeding dogs will not change them. And ethical breeders are in the majority. It's just that the dodgy ones get more press People get into breeding, make a hash of it, or should not be doing it - and they soon leave. I've seen dozens come and go over the years. You are gritting your teeth while they are getting it all wrong, and swearing and carrying on, but suddenly, they don't breed any more. It really ticks you off, but fact is, you can't do anything about it. If the people doing it are lying to the registering body, you can report them. Otherwise, just watch and wait for the "breeding enterprise" to implode. It will! I don't believe anyone should be breeding or selling APBT. No one should produce a pup which has a good chance of falling foul of the council, and being impounded and pts. However, people who like pitbulls can have a perfectly legal dog - and if they are muscular, as long as they are within the standard - it's all good. And if some of the people breeding them want "game bred" and produce dogs which are seriously a problem, they will no doubt be banned, so it's everyone's responsibility to report transgressions. That's how I see it anyhow, hope it makes sense to you

Graham Nelson, veterinary surgeon mentioned earlier had a problem with a Samoyed (from memory) whose owner visited this forum, and it may well be worth checking the media reports to see if you can find more information. The Veterinary Registration Board of Qld removed his registration at the time. I have no idea whether it was temporary or permanent, but there is currently no record of him on the register in Qld. By all means report to the VRB - I believe they are one of the few government bodies who will actually take action if things are amiss. As for taking the matter to court. AS others have advised, I would be very cautious. Vets do have insurance, and it can be a long difficult battle to take anything to court - and you end up more damaged than when you began.

I understood, from information given to me by a specialist vet, that damage of that kind (ie, anaesthetic, trauma etc) should heal without any ill effects. Time is variable. Have you asked the vet for a prognosis? He may not be prepared to say one way or the other - because he could be wrong either way, and could be liable.

Shih Tzu Maltese are terrific, but Shih Tzu are bigger, and imho more able to stand up to the rough and tumble of children that age. And they always seem to me to have more of the personality to chase a football around the yard, where a Maltese is more suited to more sedate games. Temperament and personality is different too, and I think a Shih Tzu would suit better in that regard too. Shih Tzu have great personalities I don't know anyone who doesn't just love theirs heaps. If you get a purebred, you might get undershot, but you wont get those horrible buck teeth the cross breds always seems to have. Good breeder - with healthy dogs and good temperaments, is essential. The difference between good registered and byb is enormous in "popular" breeds such as Shih Tzu, Maltese, Cavalier

Cross breeds. Right up there with blue brindle boxers. Sounds believable for the first nano second though!!

Ask him why he wants to know. I had someone approach me years ago and ask me pretty well the same question. He believed that the second litter from the bitch was the best, and that is the one he wanted a pup from. Figured he had been smoking wacky weed But - I checked out all litters in subsequent years No difference. Maybe Phillip Ridge has been smoking the same weed???

Yep, I would do it, and so would the majority. Most of the breed lists contain the names of people who are black listed, and reasons for it, so other breeders can decide - and most of them decide not to sell. The dogs need some protection too. Breeders try, and the more information they have, the better it is for the dogs.

Shortstep Don't spend a nano second worrying about it. You will be flash fried and incinerated in a moment by global warming long before the sky falls Would tell you more, but I have a boxer puppy repotting a plant, and the plant doesn't look too well

Of course they are dangerous. And what's worse, they totally corrupt gentle breeds, making them savage too.

The ONLY change desexing will bring is the inability to sire puppies. It will not cure anything. There is no miracle cure for behavioural traits, except understanding, training and patience.

Donegal, I agree with you, and I think people who acquire pitbulls or crosses in an area where they are banned are displaying a great deal of stupidity. Unfortunately, it is the dog who pays with his life, not the owner. And flaunting the law does not help to have it changed RottnBullies The only thing which is "between my lines" is blank spaces. If I want to say something, I say it. If you can see "something between the lines" you're better than I am. Absolutely.

Donegal An dog with papers has his "passport". Not everyone wants a purebred dog. A lot of people buy x bred dogs not intending to buy a pitbull, and probably not buying a pitbull. The dog grows up, is seen by an ACO and despite never having done anything wrong, and despite not being a pitbull, is mislabelled by the ACO and euthanised. Yep, there are still people breeding and people buying pitbulls - as there as people avoiding every law ever made about everything. However, a lot of people are caused grief when there should be no grief. Fact is, there is no way to identify a pitbull, and laws which targetted bad dogs instead of breeds would be more effective, and easier to police.

Perhaps because there are more gory news stories than feel good ones. A forum is its' members. The members of this forum post what interests them or what they think will interest other users.

Thanks - Lanabanana, a horrible and likely to fail mix. the difference between a good pug with no health issues and not so good is a matter of mm - I wouln't dream of trying to breed pugs, I don't have enough knowledge. Yet people with almost no knowledge mate together dogs with similar problems, knowng what they do, so potential problems are going to be huge. 3mm less width in nose, 2mm shorter, and there's a dog with chronic airways obstructions. It's hard enogh to get it right with a purebred dog, yet they are putting two quite similar breeds wil similar tiny tolerances between ok and in deep trouble. So some owners will have a dog who is born with breathing or eye or nose difficulty, but neither they nor the potential owner realises at the time that the cute pup has a huge problem which will surface in adulthool. One of the reasons GOOD breeders never cross two breeds is because they understand the potential problems and would never breed them. Yet people who hardly know what brachycephalic means are quite happy to be irresponsibly throwing griffons, pugs, cavaliers togethers And why would they care? As soon as the pet shop sels it, it is not their responsibility. Oh My

I said I can find nowhere that I said it was about glory. The EDBA did their work quietly and efficiently. And legally. Without any fanfare or credit being given. Others saved their own dogs by whatever means they could. I don't know whether you misunderstood my post (Poodlefan certainly didn't) and there is no reason why you should have. Nor do I have any idea why you should People who were more interested in power and glory and being on a committee were not the people the EDBA wanted and they were not the people the dogs needed. Seems you might be wanting to have a go at me, RottnBullies. That's ok, I don't care much, and if you want to have a go at me for telling the truth, be my guest. :D My absolute pleasure. The councils, and those mongrel acos put people through hell. Some dogs were saved, some dogs were not, some dogs were released from the pound and sent elsewhere, the owners and the dogs had a hard time. It's still going on, but the assistance is not there but there are not as many dogs in trouble And it should be about the dogs. None of this is their fault, they should not have to suffer.

Well, if she is set on a oodley thingie, there's not much you can do. Except arm her ---- Ask her to ensure the producer shows her the results of tests on the parents - PRA on the poodle, heart clear on the cavalier, and if it is under 5, probably it's parents should be heart clear too. Have both parents been vet checked for luxating patellas.. The producer should show her both parents. She should be shown, and be happy with, the place where the pup was raised. She should ask the producer whether there is a health guarantee, what it says, and how long it goes for. If she wants non shedding, go a mini poodle - from PRA tested and LP checked parents. Poodles need frequent clipping, and some grooming but great little dogs, sharp, intelligent, and such fun. Wonderful in competition such as obedience, agility or jumping for the competitiion inclined child or family. If she wants cruisy and laid back, a Cavalier is the way to go - great with kids, easy to train, happy homey little pets, make a fair fist of obedience, agillity or jumping but grooming is required twice a week, and fine hair behind ears and under "arms" needs more frequent checking or grooming. Cavaliers are my breed, and without bias, it is the breed I would recommend for a first time dog owner - they are one of the very few breeds who cope and cause no dramas with little or no training. As long as you love one, it's not a big deal if you never train it much. Your average cav will move in, check out your joint, assess how things work, and just fit in. They actually train the owner to their ways, but the owner isn't aware of that, and the cav causes no drama if he is the alpha dog - no one much notices!! A purebred dog will cost less than a oodley thing, and there will be proof of parentage. The oodley thing MAY be a cavalier x poodle, or it may not be -- who is to know for sure? Why would anyone buy a car chucked together by the would be unqualified mechanic down the road from bits of different cars in his back yard, - when they could have a nice Mercedes Benz for LESS. Makes NO sense. But, if your friend has ALL the facts, and that is what she wants, she will get that, and good luck. In the end, the most important thing is that we get the dog which suits us - whatever that may be. As the numbers of purebred dogs continue to decline, and the number of pet pups increases, more and more people will buy oodleys and other x breds, and rather than criticise them, I think we would do better to educate pet buyers in what to look for. There were some Cavoodle x Maltese for $1800 in a petshop I saw today. So, mongs, Cavalier, Poodle Maltese maybe - no proof of anything. huge Maltese pups too - if they were purebred Maltese I'll eat my Akubura

Be glad to be rid of the damn thing - I'll help him pack it...ask him if he can remove the whole of Kings Way as well. Hey while you're shopping for gifts how about a garden ornament? There is a concrete arch here that just getting in the way... ...... ...... :D ;) ;) Oh, noice, could I have 2 please? Do you ship?? Anyone want to buy a nice brindle boxer bitch? Very nice, very cheap. Gets put outside for toilet, goes, then runs around looking in every window in the house (to the detriment of the garden) to get someone to let her in. Think I am not smarter than the boxer.

Sometimes due to an imbalance in the system, which is why pups tend to do it more. People have had success with stopping this by feeding paw paw - no idea how much, a couple of chunks I guess. Can't hurt

I cannot comprehend how anyone could beat their own dog this severely. One fick suck!! Good news was it sounds as if his wife shopped him. And maybe she called when he was doing it. When the courts begin handing down decent sentences, these acts of cruelty might stop.

Lots of breeders haven't heard of coccidia. It is easily cured (as you have found) but a lot of dogs and pups die because their owners, and sometimes the vets, have no idea what coccidia is. They think it is parvo, and treat accordingly - sometimes the pup lives, sometimes not. There is a specific treatment (Baycox) I don't have it in my kennels, as far as a I know, but if I had ever had it, I would give any pups I sold a precautionary dose of Baycox (which cures it). I do think that coccidia shows symptoms in pups which are stressed - never seen any research which agrees with this but that is how it seems to me. And maybe that would explain how dogs which the breeder said were healthy had diarrohea (sp?) on arrival by air. Air travel is very stressful for pups. Luckily, it isn't difficult to cure if diagnosed correctly early enough.

the 4 breeds were banned from import. Then the Murdoch newspapers ran continuous articles where pitbulls (the media pitbull, a dog which could have been anything) performed many and varied feats, all of them demonstrating the savagery of the breed. Eventually, the public believed pitbulls were land sharks with 2000lb jaw pressure, totally unsafe in every way. The RSPCA - and particularly Hugh Wirth, the at the time president, enforced the belief that pitbulls were a problem - naming them as "that wretched breed"and "killing machines" In Q in 2002 bans were enacted by the state gov. The public was pleased, because the dogs were obviously too nasty to live, according to the RSCPA and the press. Some councils said the dogs could remain, as long as they were declared, muzzled in public, kept in a dog proof enclosure away from boundary fences. Other councils said they could not be kept, but must be euthanased - or leave the council area. Council ACOs roamed the streets finding middle sized short haired boofy dogs asleep in their front yards, declaring them "pitbulls" and carting them off in their thousands to a new home in a black plastic bag on the tip. Most of those dogs had never done anything wrong, but because someone decreed they were pitbulls they were goners. The CCCQ accommodated the government and agreed to run "training" for ACOs in identifying pitbulls. This was despite the fact that the CCCQ could hardly identify a pitbull themselves, but the money was handy, and who gave a stuff; it wasn't a CCCQ breed. To be fair, many members (who didn't own pitbulls) did not agree with this action by the CCCQ and a couple of the judges running the training quit because the whole thing made them sick Figures available suggest that approximately 10,000 dogs were euthanased in Q, as "pitbulls". This is about right; maybe there were more. EDBA assisted a few owners in various ways - by approaching councils, by making the problem public, and by helping owners take councils to court to prove their dogs were not pitbulls, and the identifying tool was a crock of. Which it was. Since then, councils are still nabbing dogs, but not as openly, and owners who do not believe their dogs are pitbulls have more chance of being heard because councils do not want to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in court cases they do not win --- over ONE dog each time. That's the short version. If you really want to know, use the search engine on this forum to look for more information around 2002. You wont find much about the EDBA - who never publicised what it did. Why give the councils notice of who they were helping and how they were going to get the dog back? And the EDBA wasn't about glory, it was about saving dogs. Half the committee didn't have a pitbull, and a couple had never met a pitbull, but they knew a wrong law when they saw one The media is now acknowledging that reports were biased - and they were - every dog which attacked was a pitbull, even if it was white 14cms tall and fluffy It's a sick and disgusting law enacted by a sick and corrupt government, which has caused untold grief to many families, and unwarranted deaths for many nice dogs. And the bite stats have risen, not fallen.

Congratulations. Sounds like a good day

Being smarter than the boxer is important, and I think it is probably the thing I lack Melbomb. Sags, you don't want a boxer at all. Certainly not. Absolutely and definitely not. I have dropped my request into the boxer puppy well, and you cannot drop your request in until mine is filled - coz the well doesn't refill that fast!!