Jed

DogsQld has set up a bank account where people can donate to help dogs and their owners .... this would be purebred dogs only, but this is a purebred dog forum. Some of our members have had their houses washed away, some are in danger of having their entire properties inundated. Some we haven't heard from. One family is in the house, they have been told to evacuate by the SES - but they can't because of floodwaters. If the floods get to the house, they are going up onto the roof with the dogs (Borders). Commonwealth Bank BSB 064 000 Account No. 11832323 CCCQ will be holding a virtual dog show, as Dogs Vic did after the bushfires, so maybe check out the website. Give 'em a few days though. Premiers appeal, details plastered everywhere, will distribute money, but not solely to dog owners.

I am fine, thanks, and not in the Lockyer

So sorry happypaws. This is the down side of pet ownership I believe they do cross the rainbow bridge, where they patiently wait for us - while playing with their friends. I think of them there sometimes, and although I miss each one so much, I am comforted by that. Not everyone believes that. You either do or you don't, I guess. The big issue is usually that you miss them so much .... only tincture of time fixes that. But I find knowing they left earth with no pain and that they had a great life with me does help. Getting a pup helps me too, but we are not all the same and some people do not take to a new pup straight away. Writing a tribute to the dog helps a lot of people too. But not everyone. Expect to suffer, that is the price for enjoying such a lovely boy for so long. Expect to recover in time too. ;)

Why? I'm asking because I have no idea at all & assumed it would be harder for the horses ) The poster meant harder for the dogs than other tests - not the horses.

White Shepherd Mum, I guess you have already considered this, and discounted - but just in case. Take into consideration Casper's age, condition, health, and musculature, and using all these factors, see if they are the reason he is dragging his back feet? Maybe changing some of the aforementioned things has not worked, but I'd really check them out before I purchased boots, in case something was going on. Maybe it is something as simple as not walking him as far each time? Of course, I don't know, just a suggestion. All the best.

So what exactly will these 'shows' entail? I've read that all dogs will have to be examined by a veterinary surgeon prior to 'exhibition' (very time consuming) and that the general public will be much more involved than they are at ANKC shows, but other than that everything appears to be very vague. Other than testing for working ability (possible, but will be difficult and once again extremely time consuming at an all breeds show) and ensuring that every dog can do the job for which it was originally bred (even more difficult as some of those jobs no longer exist) I cannot begin to imagine how one of your 'shows' is going to be conducted or what is going to be required of the exhibits. Ok off topic but how can every dog be examined by a vet? Now most shows have hundreds of entries, you would quite a few vets on hand and what time would the exhibitors be expected to arrive at the show so they have plenty of time to have their dog/s checked.. When I was a gel (well, babe in arms) all exhibits were vet checked prior to the commencement of the show. There weren't as many entries then either,but it did take some time, so we all arrived early. In season bitches were not allowed to be exhibited, incidentally. The system was abandoned because it too so long to vet check all the entries. Perhaps if the mdba exhibitions don't have many entries, it will be feasible? Particularly if it begins at 7am or something.

Thanks Jed. I have done much of what you suggest and more, I can assure you. Lots of letters to pollies and to councils. Plenty to Pet's Paradise as well. None to ANKC. Good Idea. I will start on those. I hope they have email addresses, as 99% of my letters are via email. Well done!

Way to take what sway said out of context. I did call her almost nutty, now I know Annie99 IS nutty. Ha ha ha. I don't care what any of you say. I get supportive PM's from lots of people who would prefer not to engage with people who sling mud and insults. Remember this "A man with no enemies is a man with no character." ... "A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends." AHHAHA I have plenty of enemies because I speak my mind, and stand by it! Do you think so??

Hi Annie99 you are obviously interested in this subject. If you don't approve of ANKC breeders selling to pet shops, write to each state CC and tell them. The addresses are on the website. Australian National Kennel Council. If you want to buy a pup, go to an MDBA breeder. If you buy from a petshop, you encourage the sale of puppy farm pups. Write to your local MP, complain to him about (a) puppy farms (b) ANKC regulations © pet shops. And write to the minister for primary production in your state. You can write to the newspapers as well. Don't tell us, we know already. Educate those who don't know. You never know, another voice may have an impact.

Annie99, may I ask why you would ignore Rev Jo? I haven't seen anything anyone could object to written by her - she is simply putting her point across, and giving you more information. As a new forum user, may I suggest that it may be better to ignore the pms, and deal with what is openly on the forum?

whippets Numbered in the thousands - at least.

You know what I think, and I know you don't like it, but I'll say it again. There wont be enough registered breeders left to worry about. There wont be sufficient experience or depth of breeding, and I suspect, there wont be the good dogs.

It sounds as if you have done the right thing. However, I do think it would be better for him to go direct to a new home. On the other hand, if he has some training issues, maybe it would be better for rescue to assess them, rather than have him fail at more homes. Dog ownership is about pleasure, and if it doesn't give you that, you need to sort it out. Hard thing to do,but for the best

This is what caused the original problem.Annie became aware of a breeder who told her they were registered and she assumed that meant ANKC registered - they werent.They were registered with another group and as a result what Annie thought they were dong which was breaching what she thought the ANKC code of conduct was they were perfectly able to do. Obvioulsy it got heated and was deleted but it was caused by the fact that like you she thought a registered breeder meant ANKC registered breeder and it didnt. Ah, I see. I have explained to Annie how to ascertain whether they are ANKC registered or not. And maybe some others will take notice? Thank you for explaining that :D

Thanks Monah. I agree too about one registry. any registry is going to have practices that not every one agrees with, and members that not everyone agrees with I presumed you meant the ANKC? I see members getting holidays, or being banned forever, for being naughty. And I'm always pleased to see, when some shocking puppy farmer is exposed that they were evicted from the ANKC some months or years ago, so someone complained, and the ANKC took action. Of course, a lot leave, because once they go to the dark side, they don't want to be in the ANKC. But I do wonder why Mrs Mekyersik is still a member - and then I wonder if perhaps I have been given the wrong info on her - or is she too smart for them? The regs need to be tightened for bulk breeders, and for export. I don't think anyone of us likes exports, and I cannot see why the rules aren't changed to prevent bulk breeders exporting puppies to u know where. I also think the ANKC might be better served by a more interactive website which incorporates all states What is your take on all of it?

And the way to do that is to distinguish yourself from them by your words and actions. Not by flashy websites, by knowledge, care for your breed, knowledge of your breed, consideration and duty of care to any prospective buyers, and ongoing service and consideration. There are thousands of breeders who do that, and do it well. Whatever organisation they belonged to, they would behave in exactly the same way. :D And thank dog for every single one of them, we are so lucky to have them. Remember too, if you are a member of the law society, you are probably not happy with some of the other members. A vet I know is just itching to report a dodgy vet she knows to the Veterinary Registration Board .. every time you collect a class of people, you collect the saints, the average, the ordinary and the dodgy. Car dealers? Oh, yes, they are really dodgy. I needed a new (used) car. From another state, sight unseen, I bought a car from a motor dealer I know. I have bought and paid for it, I haven't seen it, but when I go home, I know that car will do what I want. I have bought half a dozen cars from the same person .... that's why people who want another dog go back to the same breeder, or ask that breeder to recommend someone. And that's why I get heaps of PMs asking me to recommend a breeder.

I don't think there is a problem. Yep, more registries complicate the issue. However, the breeder simply has to say - as I do - I breed purebred dogs. I am registered with the ANKC (via my local canine control), which is the oldest registry for purebred dogs in Aust. You are welcome to come and see my dogs, or my pups, and if you are then interested in one, you can contact people who have my pups, and speak to them. I suppose people who want the cross mongs society (ASPRO or whatever the hell it is called) can ring them, and they will say, I am an ASPRO member, it's been going 20 minutes, and I breed cross bred mongs, come and have a look. And if you are an MDBA member you say whatever is correct and appropriate. And we have had endless threads here about choosing a breeder, the latest authored by Poodlefan, which is definitely worth a read. Most of the people buying care mainly that breeders are caring, honest and ethical, and will sell them a healthy pup, which they are prepared to back with service. And the way to choose a good breeder is research, research, research. Observation and questions. A breeder who cannot show you a properly certified pedigree of both parents, is not a registered breeder. And that breeder, at the time of purchase, should give you information on care and raising the puppy; a list of what they will do for you; perhaps a health guarantee; and something in writing stating that the puppy you purchased is registered with the appropriate registry, or give you the puppy's pedigree. I've dealt with heaps of breeders over decades. 99% were the sort of breeder I can only aspire to be. 1 % were ordinary, and .01% were dodgy. For the people who come here and complain, there are another 100 with a perfectly healthy happy bright dog by their side, purchased without dramas or trials from a perfectly ethical registered breeder. I don't think it is any more difficult than it ever was.

I am not "having a go at you". You may believe I am patronising you, or having a go at you. I am not. I am correcting you, because you are putting erroneous information on this forum. Information which is giving people who wish to buy a cavalier pup the incorrect information. People who are buying pups need the correct information. Now I have corrected you, I can go and do something which will give me more pleasure than arguing with you I have no idea why you think my correcting you is "patronising". Is it because you think you are always right? Disagreeing with you is not patronising. If you don't like it, please don't post incorrect information here in the future. If you pm me with all those breeders in Aus who are SMI-ing for syrinxes, I may believe you then. And I will apologise, but so far, you have not produced any evidence at all to support your point of view. And quite frankly, reading what you have written, I don't think you understand much about SM at all. What sources have you used for your research? The people who read this forum may have more complete comprehension than you do, and they may decide to believe someone who has bred Cavaliers for 17 years, with a lifetime health guarantee who had a vested interest in breeding healthy dogs, before someone with no demonstrated experience owning or breeding Cavaliers. I certainly wouldn't post my opinions on Boston Terriers, nor would I comment on their health testing. Because I know little about it. It is expected that forum users will extend the same courtesy to the owners/breeders of other breeds not their own. Your lack of knowledge shines through in every post you make. This is my last post on this subject, unless you send me breeders names or prefixes, and then I will apologise for disagreeing about the number of breeders testing. Yes, they are testing in UK and in US, but not here and not in NZ in any great numbers. In fact, more breeders are walking away than testing because of the cost and the distances to travel to have the testing done. And the lack of concrete results. Oh and it is generally believed, world wide, that the Cavaliers in Aus and NZ have a much lower incidence of SM than in other places, maybe because of the original dogs imported here.

It has nothing to do with being open minded, it has to do with the truth. The truth is as I have written it. I am not saying the dogs shouldn't be tested, I am saying that most of them aren't being tested. I am not telling you what SHOULD happen, I am telling you what DOES happen. And I am telling you that testing does not guarantee a dog which is SM free. What should happen is that dogs should be MRId for syrinxes - or I believe so anyhow. But it is expensive, and very difficult to MRI. I am on several cav lists, I speak to breeders, I am on forums, most breeders are on them, most breeders are not testing. I know a few are, but they are in the minority. And chances of the OP acquiring a pup from one of them is about nil. I am quite amazed about this .... are you sure you aren't confusing HEART SCANS (MRIS) WITH MRIS FOR SYRINXES? Most reputable breeders heart scan - and that is the basis of "heart clear" certificates which are issued to the parent dogs. If you know of many breeders testing for SM, I would be pleased if you would let me know who they are by PM. I do know of a few, but they are the minority Jaxxs Buddy No they aren't. No one can say that ... well they can, but they can be sued. The dogs are graded when they are scanned, from A to D, not graded as being SM free.

I am sorry, Jaxx's Buddy, I forgot to mention why not all dogs are tested, and you asked. I did answer in another thread. Breeders are not generally testing for SM because the only subsidised scanner in Aust is in Sydney. I believe scans are $600 each. Breeders in other places have the choice of using a scanner at the uni, or a speciallist centre, at a cost of approximately $1200 per dog. Extras probably run the cost up over $1500 per dog. Breeders in other states can send the dogs to Sydney, add air freight, boarding etc. Some breeders do have the dogs scanned when they are in Syney for speciality shows. Added to which, the dog must be given a general anaesthetic, with attending risks. To be graded "A" on MRI does not mean the dog will not produce pups with SM. So, from a breeders point of view, you can spend $3000+ having the dogs scanned, and still produce whole litters with SM. Subsidised scanning is available in UK, with funds from grants, donations etc, and owners of pet and breeding Cavaliers are encouraged to scan, so a data base can be built up and be of use for the future. Owners of Cavaliers which have symptoms of SM are particularly encouraged to have the dog scanned, for obvious reasons. I hope Penny has the pedigrees correct now. I hope that makes the situation clearer.

Jaxx's Buddy, it IS responsible to give accurate advice, but you are NOT giving it. Precisely what knowledge of Cavaliers do you have to not be comfortable proclaiming that there is a small incidence of SM in Australia? It works both ways. The dogs with SM are often spoken about (both Cavalier and other breeds), whilst the ones who live lives untroubled by SM (and MVD come to that) kick back and enjoy, and they are never mentioned. It is NOT a negative view, it is an honest view. It might not suit you, with your great and profound knowledge of how to breed dogs, and most particularly how to successfully breed Cavaliers with no health problems, but it is FACT. That is how it is. Accept what is. Do you know how many breeders are scanning for SM? If you do, and the dogs scanned are graded A, please refer fiestylady to those breeders. I know who is scanning, and I will repeat what I said before, if fiestylady is not interested unless the dogs have been scanned, she can forget it. Do you know how many registered Cavalier breeders are in Aust? Do you know how many puppies they breed annually? Do you know how many enquiries they all have? Do you know which breeders scan, why they scan, and how many pups they have for sale? Obviously not. And I also repeat, the chances of the dog being run over or being bitten by a snake are about the same as the chances of him having SM. If you encourage people to only buy from MRI scanned parents, any buyer will be sadly disappointed, and probably nick off to a puppy farm and buy. People do.

Steve Do you have links to this you can post? Last I checked, Drs. Bob Rogers & Catherine O'Driscoll seemed to feel that vaccinosis was due to the vaccinations, not some problem with the dogs' immune system, but as you know, I am open to learning. Jaxx's Buddy, I refer you to post #14. Instead of having a shot at me you might consider the needs of fiestylady, who is asking the questions. Your replies do not reflect the situation at all. More dogs are scanned in Uk because there is a subsidised scanning service. More dogs are scanned in NSW because there is subsidised scanning available. I already typed the rest, not doing it again. fiestylady, trust me it's true, there are as many scanned Cavaliers in Aust as there are ashtrays on bicycles. And, although Steve seems to think more are being scanned daily, they are not. However, more are gradually being scanned, but your chance of getting a pup from scanned parents is very low. Your chance of getting a pup with SM is also very low, provided you stick with registered and recommended breeders. Also, please be aware that a dog with an "A" MRI SM scan can still produce pups which have SM.

Lucky you prefer Bostons, Jaxx Buddy. 51 Cavaliers in Aust have been scanned for SM. Approximately half of those are over breeding age. That leaves about 28 breeding dogs, and if we presume they have heart clear parents, and have had eye tests, those are the only Cavaliers you would wish to purchase a pup from. As I said to feistylady - forget it. You have more chance of your Cavalier escaping and being run over and killed than you do of him having SM in Australia

fiesty lady, why not join the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel breed sub forum, and ask owners from SA where they bought their dogs, and whether they are happy. There are several (at least) good ethical breeders in SA. And if you particularly want a cavalier from parents who have been scanned for syrinxes, give up now. You are very unlikely to find one. Heart scans of the parents, yet, eye tests yes - although eye problems are not endemic in this country. Be aware too, that although heart clear dogs are less likely to throw pups with MVD murmurs, it can happen. Brain scans are far too expensive and difficult for breeders to have done, and the incidence on SM in this country is too low to warrant it. And be aware that the brain scans can be totally clean and free of syrinxes, and your pup can still have syringomyelia. There are lines and kennels (the majority) in this country which have never produced SM. I think some of the people on this forum have taken altogether too much notice of Bet Hargraves!! fiestylady Breeders have a duty of care to provide you with a healthy dog. It is simply a matter of finding one who takes that seriously. Was Lochie registered with SACA, and from a reputable breeder? The problems Lochie suffered - diabetes, rashes, cancer can and have all been caused by vaccinosis. Whether this is the cause in Lochie's case is unproven, but consider that, as well as the hereditary factor. Unfortunately, there is no proof either way, but I think it is worth considering.

Yep, due to the cold. Have read papers re frozen food/ice given to dogs, and it can send the stomach into spasm and kill the dogs - and also have the same effect it had on your dog. Scary!!