Jed

Melstar, it is autosomal, you can google that. I have 4 generations in my kennel clear of LP. I have a dog with wonderful patellas. My vet feels him up every visit, and says "oh these patellas are to die for". Four years ago, he sired one pup with LP. He has never thrown another. Your dog may have been checked by a vet at 8 weeks, and the patellas were fine ... but as she grew, the problem developed. It could be an environmental problem, not hereditary. All you can do with pups is have the vet manually check them, but things can change. You can't blame the breeder. You probably shouldn't blame yourself too. Because Cavs get such bad press, vets are inclined to diagnose things which the dog may not have. I once had an emergency vet tell me my pregnant girl had an "MVD murmur". I suggested it was a temporary stress murmur, he said it was MVD, I told him the future for the pups looked bleak. And that the bitch had been heart checked clear 5 months previously by a cardiologist. He went and got his "better stethscope" and surprise, surprise, no murmur. And that is why you should always speak to your breeder first, for advice and perhaps the name of a more experienced vet in the breed. Don't worry, wait and see what the second vet says.

tibbiesby2 I think everyone, inclding the op, is gettin a bit excited here. We don't know that the dog does have a patella problem. Lets wait and see before we have her sliced, diced and sterilized. I do agree if the dog does have LP, she should not be bred from. Autosomal problems are a huge problem to eradicate, and breeding with a dog with LP is not the way to go. I think this vet is in a practice which is into value adding - and a lot are like that these days, it is all about the bottom line for the practice. The dog is diagnosed with Gr 1 luxating patellas without any symptoms. To the op - raw meat, raw bones, veges and fruit through a food processor or juicer ... read up on Dr. Billinghurst's "Give A Dog A Bone" and go from there. Or read the thread Pers gave a link to. There is a growing body of evidence that raw food helps Cavaliers - by helping prevent MVD, or by assisting dogs with MVD. The raw strengthens the connective tissue of the heart. It can never be a bad thing. My own dogs who are fed raw, bones, veges and fruit, and run about like flies live longer and with no problems, as opposed to related dogs who are fed dry food. I have been doing a survey, the dogs are 10 now. And why not take your girl to a show and see if you enjoy it? Does your breeder show? Good luck, let us know how you go with the specialist. It might be worth finding out who the breeder uses, or see if you can find a vet who knows Cavaliers, it is often beneficial.

How old is the dog? I would seek alternative treatment rather than operate on a Gr 1 patella. As i said earlier. Second opinion for sure. Find a vet who knows Cavaliers.

The very FIRST thing you need to do is to speak with the breeder. I breed Cavaliers, and I have bred 2 Cavaliers which were diagnosed by vets at 10 -12 months with luxating patellas. Neither had a patella problem. When Cavaliers are 9 - 12 months old, they often grow "bum high" and walk funny. So, vets who know nothing about the breed, except that "Cavaliers can have patella problems" diagnose patells problems and want to operate. LP can be inherited, or aquired. Even if inherited, it may be that no direct ancestor has LP, so the breeder could not know. However, rather than an operation, I would consider alternative treatement - physio, chiro, an appropriate diet. And I wouldn't be ringing up the breeder fto accuse anyone of anything. Ring up to see if the breeder can give you advice. Personally, I would be bothered about a GP vet recommending an operation on a dog which, if it has LP at all, probably has Gr. 1 How old is your dog?

Salient facts not highlighted in the newspaper article - but probably were in court The child had often visited the dogs in the past without incident, but the owner was always present The child climbed over two fences to get to the dogs, who were locked in a secure pen. The child was seen walking down the street carrying a dead chicken at 7pm The dogs had not attacked anyone before, although they had been out "causing trouble" When you put a 4 year old child holding a dead chicken in with 5 dogs in their own pen, the outcome is not difficult to work out. Most breeds would be fighting for the chicken. Maybe the intent was to kill the child, but I would think the chicken was the motivating force. If I went into my dogs with a dead chicken, there would be some action!! And they would have no intention of harming me, only of getting the chook. Why was a 4 year old child wandering the streets carrying a dead chicken at 7pm? Where were the parents? I feel so dreadfully sorry for this poor little child, and I feel so sad that the parents failed in their duty of care to her. The owner has been prosecuted, the dogs are dead. The father and brother sought to sue the council. I don't think, in this case, that the council acted badly and I think that justice has been served Now we have laws classing hunting dogs as "dangerous" I don't know.

Congratulations! What a great milestone.

I think those crates are too small too. They should be as wide as they are long. As Espinay says, they may have been in the crates for 10 minutes to eat. I have one which is too small, but is fine for dinner, to save someone stealing it from the slow eater. BUT I have been watching legislation in various states in USA. some of it is seriously wacky - obviously framed by over zealous legislators at the behest of animal rights, without any input from breeders or owners. Apart from Hawaii basically wanting all dogs to be desexed, some of the legislation in other states is seriously flawed. The woman mentioned may live in an area where selling from home is not allowed. I notice whenever anyone is prosecuted, it is made to look as bad as possible ... as with this woman ... yes the crates are clean there are dishes, but most importantly, the dogs look healthy. WE need to be aware of impending legislation and the long term implication

The anal glands are beside the anus. And if one has ruptured, you will smell it. However, I think because you are not sure what is wrong, and you are concerned about it, it may be worth going to the vet.

Sounds like worms. I would worm them again, and again in a week.

Hi Mantis. As you know, Kenny was a particular favourite of mine on DOL/ Iknew he had crossed the raibow bridge but I didn't remember seeing anything about it, so I didn't like to post about it. He was a great dog, I remember some of the things he did. How sad, another wonderful doggy soul gone fron this plane. I know he is happy over the bridge, although he misses you, and waits for you. Hard though it is,you need to try to pass it, so he can continue his journey. He was such a lovely dog, I do hope you find one nearly as good in time. I hope he has met Magnus over the bridge and they are friends. My sincere sympathy is with you, Mantis

And - try asking each state CC individually ... the result will be different from what is on the ANKC website. Personally, I think if white pups remain unregistered, people are less inclined to want to breed with them, or to think that perhaps they can. I offer exactly the same to the buyers of my white pups as I do to buyers of the coloured pups .... except they have paid considerably less, and they do not get any registration papers. If the CC will not register them, the member cannot register the unregisterable, so there is no need to even worry about your membership for a nanosecond. You cannot do what is impossible. You cannot be in trouble for that. That has always been the way.

9.30 - 11.45 (am) - from (9am if you are desperate) 1.30 - 6.00 pm 7.30 - 8.30 (9pm if you are desperate). Other times? Only family and people you know well.

There are quite a few boxers who have different phenotype and genotype. There are also some which are probably genetically plain, but we don't breed enough in Aus to prove it either way, so people who are determined not to breed white probably need to import semen.

Which is why I dont think he is genetically plain I believe he looks plain but is genetically flashy. Some would breed him thinking he were genetically plain and I think he has a fair shot at throwing white pups if mated to a flashy dog. He IS genetically plain. He has had x pups, to flashy bitches all over the world, and never a white. Sired enough pups to be advertised as "genetically plain". I wouldn't have posted the link unless he was proven as genetically plain. I could have just posted any old flashy boxer. Which simply goes to show that its not easy and not all black and white doesn't it ? Without the added info of what his breeding history is we both would have assumed he would be flashy. Exactly. And there are no doubt many many more genetically plain boxer dogs, who can't advertise that they are, so we don't know whether they are or not. It's not all beer and skittles.

Which is why I dont think he is genetically plain I believe he looks plain but is genetically flashy. Some would breed him thinking he were genetically plain and I think he has a fair shot at throwing white pups if mated to a flashy dog. He IS genetically plain. He has had x pups, to flashy bitches all over the world, and never a white. Sired enough pups to be advertised as "genetically plain". I wouldn't have posted the link unless he was proven as genetically plain. I could have just posted any old flashy boxer.

There is a team of specialist vets there during "normal hours", and a different team of emergency vets there after hours ... and different teams of receptionists and nurses too. Hope all is well for you dandybrush

Steve And it is difficult to know what the parents' genes are. It is suprising that the dog I posted the link to is genetically plain. I do realise that "genetically plain" dogs don't have white collars or neck markings, but I would think he has too much white to be "plain", and his parents are as flashy as can be.

I killed it!! ;)

Regarding flashy and genetically plain. This is a link to a dog who is genetically plain, there are photos of him and his parents. It is worth a look for anyone who is interested in this subject. And I think some of you may see that choosing a genetically plain dog is not a stroll in the park. http://www.berlane.net/ and please click on "The Boys" in the menu on the left hand side, and then click on Berlane's Joint Venture. Scroll down for photos of him and his parents - they come after the results of the health tests. He has more chrome than you would think a "genetically plain" dog would have, and his parents have even more. As far as plain boxers in the ring, some black masked boxers have titled in Q lately,and the dog at Westminster who was opposite sex (?) or second to the BOB (whatever, I've forgotten) was a very plain dog. Also a very beautiful dog. I put the Westminster link on the boxer breed forum, if anyone wants to see it. He is the first dog in the lineup, trinabean you picked up a few things I missed :)

If I am critically ill or injured, or die, I have instructions in my will, and given to family and friends, so a lot of people know that all my animals are to be euthed. If I am ill and recover, and the animals are dead, I will console myself that at least they didn't suffer

Quite a lot of misinformation has been disseminated in this thread, by people who have not owned boxers, and do not breed. For anyone who is genuinely interested, I suggest you contact your state canine control and ask them about the situation regarding white boxers and registration, or no registration, and the status of any breeder who produces white boxers. NOT the state breed club, which does not make the rules. The thoughts of the breed club are immaterial in this regard. Nothing against any breed club, but that is how it is. I also suggest you read up colour genetics, the white in the boxer is different from other breeds. I also suggest reading some credible sites, or a book which contains information on white boxers. Some of the founding dogs of this breed were white. Whites were excluded from the breed register and shows in the late 1800s or early 1900s, (not sure without checking - it is not important) after a decision by the Boxer Club. It is believed that this decision was made because boxers were guard dogs (and were used extensively by the German Army in World Wars) and a white dog was too obvious to the enemy or an intruder. However, it may also have been that some white dogs were deaf, and the club excluded them from the stud books because the committee of the time thought that allowing white boxers to interbreed with the general boxer population may have increased the incidence of deafness in the general boxer population. The latter is still a valid reason in the opinion of many breeders not to allow the whites to interbreed. This matter is under consideration by the breed club in the country of origin Now there are fewer boxer breeders, and fewer stud dogs, breeders as always are seeking foremost, dogs which are healthy, with good conformation and temperament. Colour does not affect health or function, and most breeders would prefer to breed a litter with the possibility of some whites, than an ugly unhealthy litter, so they will use the best dog possible. Bearing in mind that most breeders would prefer not to produce white. And to not throw white, the dogs must be genetically plain. Because there are so few boxers around, it is very difficult to ascertain which dogs are genetically plain, and those breeders wanting genetically plain are seeking semen from overseas where it is possible to advertise dogs as genetically plain. I also suggest that you check out the puppy listings on DOL, and see how many white boxers are offered for sale. Yes some breeders do euth the whites, but many do not. And rather than being concerned about what may amount to a very few boxers being euthed by responsible breeders annually, and some of them being raised to 6 - 8 weeks and then being euthed because they are deaf, it would be more productive to be concerned about, and take some action on the many dogs being euthed in pounds every week or dumped on the side of the road. Incidentally, anyone familiar with purebred dogs, particularly boxers and some other breeds, knows that "chrome" refers to white markings, as it does in horses. It is possible to have a good knowledge of both horses and dogs, as Crisovar has, having constantly won at high levels with both, and having bred successfully. People who spend time at dog and horse events, and people who have done some basic reading are aware of the meaning of "chrome". It is by no means either an obscure or new term. In fact, I would suggest that only people who aspire to be artistic would be aware of any other meaning (apart from "chrome" on cars!)

Which group, Sheridan?

dog_fan .dog_fan what is this breed/s which cannot mate or self- whelp please? What % of this breed cannot self whelp? All? Half? And which is the breed/s which cannot "things dogs do"? And again, what is the percentage of dogs that cannot do that? Does ANYONE know? There must be some stats out there. I thought maybe terrierman had them. Nope. What are we doing without stats? Why are we doing it? And don't think I am an apologist for any breed. As a breeder, I did all the health checks, and in fact, I made sure that things which are not mentioned, like narrow ear canals and elongated soft palates, which I consider detrimental, are bred away from, as did/do with 98% of my peers. In all breeds. So, and I keep asking, where are these unhealthy dogs? Show me the studies? Janba, were those sickly pugs show pugs, or pet pugs Puggles attested that pugs were very sickly,breeders attest here that they are not sickly. Apparently a lot of pugs are sickly. There seems to be a fine line between healthy and sicko,. Could breeders be stepping over that line accidentally/on purpose? Should pugs be banned? Should the standard be changed to call for a nose at least 10cm long? But, pugs were mentioned in the doco as having screw tails which caused problems, yet they seemed to have the same tails 100 years ago. Aidan, I can't understand why you can't believe AR has anything to do with this? They have already caused huge inroads to the fancy and to x bred dogs? And of course, to remove dogs from the planet, you would first have to remove purebred dogs. They are the ones with committees and structure for breeding. Then x bred dogs could be removed by wholesale neuter laws --- which many attempts have been made to bring in - in Australia, and failed. A few dogs would slip by, but not too many, and then viola, 5 years, no dogs. Ah, Crisovar, I am not angry in the slightest. I told them about BSL and about docking before the events, and like Aidan, they rubbished me, or accused me of being "paranoid", but of course, I was correct, and they were wrong. BSL laws will never be repealed, and more and more dogs will disappear, most of them in no way worthy of being knocked off. Not that I really expected anyone here to actively do anything, but you should be aware. :) They are your dogs too. Labrador? Cattledog? Setter? x bred? Doesn't make any difference, the only difference is the time line. Your breed will be phased out too. And all because purebred dogs are so unhealthy ..... but where is the evidence? Show me the evidence. What has been used to call these dogs unhealthy?

No need to worry about the 'animal rights zealots', the purebred dog world will do itself in. There are some serious problems with this new scheme, but many of the opinions I see written on it seems to rely on digs at 'animal rights zealots', the slippery slope fallacy, then dies it's death (usually early on) by Godwin's Law. Your own arguments are much stronger, Jed. Let's have a dispassionate and open-minded look at the facts. Zackly. Although it is animal rights. I copped a hiding about BSL and docking but it all came to pass. This will too. Go Peke!! You good thing you People seem to say I am saying there is nothing wrong with purebred dogs. Incorrect. I am saying - get the proof. Not of a couple of crook dogs, we know that, but of a whole breed, or of a good percentage. I have no idea why people fail to believe that AR has anything to do with this. At every point, they are telling us what they are doing, yet we are not hearing.

http://dogknobit.com/2012/03/15/why-crufts-should-worry-us/