Jed

Exactly Aussie3, hatred of crossbreeds seems to be the main point that m-sass has to support bsl. what an awful thing, to condemn a dog simply because it lacks the "right" paperwork seems completely unethical and inhumane. I know that this is a pedigree dog forum but most people here surely have the compassion not to kill a dog just because it doesn't look like their ideal of a perfect dog. Looks shouldn't Kill Funny, I got the impression that m-sass was meaning that if you choose to own a dog that resembles a restricted breed, be prepared for the worst. Please QUOTE m-sass in future, because I do believe you are twisting her/his words and reading into something that hasn't been written. No, he has said as much in a number of threads My question is what about the person who bought a lab x staffy from the pound before the rules and now has a dog that fits the registered description? According to the laws, and previous examples, if the dog is judged to be a pitbull or crossbred, he will be euthanased. No matter what he has done or not done. That is what is wrong with the laws. A fox terrier killed a child - in Victoria - I think. So, should all small, short haired white and black or white and brown dogs be singled out and euthed?

If councils enforced existing laws - not pitbull laws - about unleashed dogs, unfenced dogs, and dog attacks there would be no problem. However, they are too busy running around snatching supposed pitbulls to actually properly enforce the laws. Read the forums here and see how many bad dogs are out there, and how little the councils have done to contain or remove them. The solution is in all our hands. Firstly, you report your friend's dog to the council, owning a dog like that is a problem waiting to happen. Any dog which is dog aggressive does not belong in public, no matter what breed. A GSD or a Mastiff could be just as dangerous. We should all report problematical dogs - and annoy councils until they do something about them.' Pitbulls have been targeted in Qld for years - I don't suppose there are too many remaining. Yet the bite stats have not reduced.

No death in Australia can be attributed to a pitbull. The death of Mrs Stringer in Toowoomba, was caused by a dog, identified by a knowledgable dog person, as a crossbred - labrador crossed with a bull and terrier breed, I think was the id. The dog was obtained from the pound by the owner, who said he"would make it savage". And he did. The dog which killen Ayen Chol has not, as far as I am aware, been identified by anyone except the newspaper. Was there an official identification in the court process? So - as far as I know, still no death attributable to an APBT. Labradors and German Shepherd and boxers and their crosses were always higher up the bite list than pitbulls. Not sure what the list is now, but I'll bet it hasn't changed much. Blame the deed, not the breed.

Schipperke. Small, short coat - minimum grooming - they have a special affinity with children. Black is the most common colour. Worth researching further. Active and fun, very smart.

Well done, APBT Club. The public don't understand the laws, and certainly need some support. Congratulations.

Happy birthday, Renae!!

The above does make sense. I will rephrase it If any Cavalier develops a murmur before s/he reaches 5 years do not breed with him or her. If the parents of the Cavalier had clear hearts at 5 years (ie, no MVD murmurs), it should be safe to breed the cavalier before s/he reaches 5 years of age. If the parents' hearts were not clear (or not checked), you should not breed the Cavalier before s/he reaches 5 years Hope that clarifies it. A good vet with a decent stethoscope can diagnose a murmur.

Sending healing thoughts to Penny, and vibes for strength to you Esky. Gorgeous photos too. :)

Perhaps the pups had parvo and were removed from sale? Not sure about the kittens but there would have to be some major disenfection - or maybe they sold them all.

So disheartening, I feel for you. Of course, if you never heart checked the dogs, you wouldn't know, and could and would breed on regardless!! (Like those damn puppy farmers) I do wish the scientists would find the gene or genes responsible for this wretched problem. Life would be so much easier.

In my travels around, I used a few different vets. I was so pleased to find one who holds regular seminars for his clients. I was invited to one on breeding. There is one on in a month on parasite control. Great idea. The CCs do have some training nights -- I am sure they were advertising seminars on training, and maybe breeding (forgotten), I think the problem is that things of this sort are not well patronised and the CC's have given up in despair. But I agree it would be cool if they would have learning seminars. Lots of members show, and don't breed. The best form of learning, for me, is from "old" breeders, and from specialist vets - I always have lots of questions -- some vets are natural teachers, some not, and I have learned so much from those who will teach. Surely if you do something - anything - you would want to learn all you could about it, without your organisation having to spoon feed you? However, nothing would surprise me after I mentioned MVD in Cavs to a so called breeder, and she asked me what that was. Re MVD - I am sure it was in the breed - but there were no tests for it. I do believe I read somewhere where the author suggested a very early luminary of the breed had MVD, and they had traced pedigrees, and it did appear so.

Thanks, Jumabaar, I didn't quite understand what you meant. That's usual for me. :laugh: asal I think people who have an interest in anything should learn as much as they can about it. One of the things I like about breeding is that you continue to learn, you continue to hone your knowledge against your peers. I don't think the CCs should have to spoon feed people. It;s a hobby, they should want to learn. That's half the fun. I don't agree with the CC's response to AR, but that is another matter. dogsaremyworld, I think you were probably very unlucky.

Hi, I am interested in what you would call "head in the sand" attitude in this thread? Just for my own clarification? What do you think could be done to change this attitude?

Blackdogs, it is complicated. PDE muddied the waters. I think the Biggiest Problem is that there are many breeders, some puppy farmers, some unregistered - and a few registered - who have NFI about some diseases Cavs have. Not do they test. Nor do they study Pugs, I believe, are in the same boat - there is a fine line between a well conformed pug without problems and a badly conformed one with lots of problems. Bad breeders don't know the difference and don't care. Thanks for the compliment, there are some good breeders out there and some who post here, not just me. Blackdogs - have a look at this site. It will give you heart!! http://www.thecavalierclub.co.uk/start.html And, from the menu on the left, select "Golden Oldies"

Absolutely

Greyhound would be fine. Cavalier King Charles Spaniel - easy to live with, affectionate, wants to be with people, easy to train. Big enough to walk, take to the beach etc, small enough to carry, friendly enough to sleep on the bed. Will participate in evey activity - gardening, cooking, toilet cleaning. I consider them a great dog for retired people. However, they must live in side. They come in 4 colours - blenheim, tricolour, ruby and black and tan. The males are as affectionate as the females. A very easy pet.

Some of the issues in Cavaliers may not be totally hereditary. I consider MVD the worst of the problems - and the mode of inheritance is not known. It is known that feeding raw food, is beneficial, and may avoid heart problems, because the raw strengthens the connective tissue in the heart. So a raw diet may avoid, or reduce any incidence of MVD. And despite research, the mode of inheritance is still not known. It is obviously a recessive gene and could be autosomal. Current recommenation is to use dogs which do not develop early murmurs, and that means not mating at 18 months. If the dog has a murmur at 7 or 8, but is not on medication, nor affected that is seen as ok - not ideal for breeding, but ok for pets because the murmur is causing no problems. SM, from anyone's point of view, is a complete nightmare. Having two parents which are Graded A does not guarantee a clear pup. Some dogs with SM are affected by air pressure, and some are affected by other things. Some have symptoms, and no clinical signs on MRI. Some have chiari malformations, and no sm. Some have sm, quite bad on MRI, but the dog has no symptoms. Buy from someone with old ancestors hanging around. Soneone ethical and registered. I recently sold a pup to people who previously bought from a pet shop. The pup developed renal problems, cost them $K4 and had to be pts at 17 months. When they came to see my pups they saw the mother, the father, the auntie, the grandfather, and the great-grandmother, who is 12. I can't guarantee that pup will be healthy for life, but there are no hereditary nasties lurking there. All I can do is breed from healthy dogs; I can't guarantee good health for life, but that is what I aim for. I do believe strongly that feeding, food and general care plays a very large part in the health or otherwise of dogs. No breeder can control that.

Arcane, it sounds to me as if a lot of the CKCS you are seeing come from the same place. Overbite is definitely hereditary, and missing toes sounds as if it could be. I would be interested to know if the dogs are from the same place. Main problem is that there are insufficient registered CKCS to fill the orders, so many people will buy un registered from the paper/pet shop or internet. Most of the Cavs out there are not registered. Sometimes, dogs from the paper or 'net may be cheaper, so buyers choose them as a preference. But it is the paucity of registered pups which is the problem. Every time I have had a litter I have 20+ enquiries. Some are not serious, some are "just looking" but 10 are serious. I have 4 pups, where do the other 6 buyers go? All registered breeders are in the same situation. Blackdog, if you are worried about SM, I think you should avoid all small dogs. Cavaliers have been blasted because of SM, because Cavalier breeders were the ones who were visible - because they had contributed quite a lot of money to try to find the cause of it, as Cavs were affected and breeders wanted to fix it. So much for trying to do the right thing!! However, many small breeds are affected - pomeranians, min. pinschers, maltese, poodles, griffons - and probably quite a few others. If Cav breeders had not been so keen on health, SM in cavaliers would never have been an issue. Incidence in Australia is believed to be about 2%. A 10 year old survey showed a higher incidence, but the dogs MRI'd then were done because they were suspected of having SM. If your sire is overshot, or has deformed feet, and you put him over his daughters, you are going to perpetuate the problem. While animal rights has prevented registered breeders doing first degree matings of maybe top dogs to "lock in" the good features, unregistered breeders and puppy farms can mate brother to sister, mother to son, father to daughter every single time, with complete impunity. And of course, if you don't have to register the pups and name the parents, you can do whatever you like with impunity. We need to be careful what we believe, between rampant animal rights denigrating all breeds, and so many unregistered dogs bred very carelessly by puppy producers who neither know nor care. Unfortunately, it is a popular breed, easy to sell, and that attracts people who are maybe not interested in the welfare of the breed, or the level of satisfaction of the buyer.

Yarra Ranges Shire is not friendly to additional dogs.

Da da "pet shops only buy from breeders, never from puppy farms" Yep Quote from the article ... a puppy wholesaler would be a puppy farm no?

There is information out there on boosting the system pre and post vaccination - but I am blowed if I know where it is. I would consider contacting Robert McDowall in Sydney. You probably need to boost up the pup before his next vac, and also boost him against some of the bad things which vaccines can cause. Catherine O'Driscoll - USA vet and naturopath has some information on her website. Or - did have

Ask in the Cavalier thread, there is someone (or two) in Aus who make them.

There is a female Am Cocker on gumtree for $400, not desexed. While we are on the subject!! Mine know they will be auctioned for vivesection any moment. That is why they have the RSPCA on speed dial, and when I tell them that they show me the phone. Ah well.

In Qld, when a dog was seized, the owners were not allowed to see the dog (unless it was held for a very long time) nor was the body released to the owner. I have no idea why, but all the ones I was involved with were the same. I am not involved now so have no idea what is happening. Probably hasn't changed much. So sad. Such wrong laws Poor dog, poor owners.

Well, I stand by my opinion that we will be a long time waiting for a Labrador or a Standard Poodle to be reported in a killing rampage upon passive targets??. Breed and breeding has everything to do with genetic aggression unfotunately??. I don't think poodles are represented at all in bite statistics, and I would bet that would have to do with the type of person who owns them. Labradors figure much higher in the bite statistics in Aus than pitbulls ... and always have done. Labradors mostly belong to reasonable, responsible people, but once they decide they will bite, they are worth watching. In this case, I would apportion 98% of blame to the bogan owner, who provided no training, and didn't have the wit to see that a $1.50 plastic collar with studs from the $2 shop was NEVER going to hold that dog ... if he was the one in the Sunrise video. But he would have bought it for the studs, not the strength (oh, and the price!!) People seem to have no respect these days. He had none for the other poor dog or its owner, or his own dog. Almost not quite human