Jed

Neither I, nor any other reputable breeder would sell a boxer to a first time dog owner. I would not sell a cocker spaniel either, so I agree with you. Most of these problems are due to unleased dogs in public and dogs not contained by fences. If councils spent time rectifying these problems, there would be no need for BSL, and attacks would reduce significantly. And owners of boofy looking brown short haired dogs would not live in fear of the council seizing the dog and killing it

dancingbc, the APBT does have it's own registry, which is actually older than the FCI and ANKC. Many purebred pitbulls in Aust are registered with it.

I agree about being furious with the owners. Being furious with the dogs and labelling them 'vile monsters' does nothing and only promotes the idea that these dogs allowed themselves to be this way when, in fact, the owner has allowed them to be this way. The owners didn't have a high enough fence to contain their dogs, the dog's behaviour is genetic Hi m-sass can you produce proper scientific evidence to support your claim? Most of the evidence I have read is totally opposite but I like to be balanced Jed, are you saying the dogs were trained to jump the fence and go after other dogs........I would say the weren't trained to do that and they did that from pure instinctive drive to do so which is genetic? I wondor sometimes if many people here have actually owned a DA dog and understand what the management of such a dog entails??. Loosely, a DA dog is a pain in the butt managing an essentially useless trait. My number 5 Labrador out of the 7 Labs I have onwned was DA......yes a DA Lab and he was a bugger of a thing for the 15 years of his life wanting to chomp on other dogs and to make it worse because of his breed, people didn't fear him or expect him to be aggressive towards their dogs.........let puppy off leash to play with the nice Lab scenario's......ended up I had to muzzle him on walks to keep off leash dogs safe........but more to the point, I didn't mis-manage this dog, poke him with sticks etc etc to make him DA, he just was DA genetically which I found out years later that his father was retired from showing early for the same reason, dog aggression, yet the breeder of this litter obviously thought dad's DA traits needed to be reproduced He didn't chase after dogs, he was aggressive towards dogs who chased after him or got in his face, he wouldn't go after a dog and owner walking down the footpath and look for a fight, it's was purely if they approached him, a different type of aggression to the predatory type of dog aggression described here. No, I am not saying the dogs were trained to jump the fence. I am asking whether you have any scientific proof of your assertions?

Luke, this is how I understand it. There are purebred APBT, and "near" purebred APBT - some of them are DA, some a not, Very few are HA. Unfortunately, there is a class of person who buys a badly bred, apbt, and does not train or socialise it - and in some cases, encourages HA and DA. APBT does not figure largely in the bite stats and never did. Unfortunately, every dog in Aus which attacks is supposed to be a pit bull. Some are, some are not. Most are x breds well away from apbt some have no apbt blood at all they are simply dogs which have been encouraged to behave badly. Some people actually want a savage dog. The young man which owned the labrador x (mislabelled as a pitbull in the media) which attacked and killed Mrs. Stringer in Toowoomba, on acquiring the dog from the pound, said he would turn him into a "killer dog". And he did. Many breeds/dogs have the potential to do as badly, or worse - with the kind of upbringing and "training" some of these dogs have. As a boxer breeder of some 40 years, I could easily raise a boxer which would, on every occasion, do more damage than a pitbull, because they are larger, and they are just as tenacious. But - boxers are not bred by the 100 by cross bred breeders, they are mostly bred by careful breeders who ensure the dog will be properly raised and socialised. And people tend not to keep 2 or 3 of them when they are not contained. Karen Delise's research shows that most breeds, on forming a pack, can and do kill. Including St. Bernards and surprising breeds. It isn't about the breed, it should be about the deed. I have already listed a few of the dogs involved in deaths. Pit bulls form a very small proportion. Councils don't want the work checking on savage dogs in their areas - witness that it is difficult to get the ACOs to attend when a dog is attacked. Council have negated the public's ability to sue them by banning pitbulls. "See, we did something to protect the public, we banned pitbulls" Dobermanns, GSD, Akitas, huskies, malmutes, rottweilers, ACD - and wait - there are more - are capable of things as bad or worse but they tend to belong to people in higher socio economic groups who can afford adequate fencing and training, and who want their dogs to be nice kissy pets. These laws wont be overturned until the councils are spending lots of $$ defending court cases (as they were doing in Q) - and until someone who suffers a death in their family sues the council for not taking due care. I don't have a pitbull. I have no interest in owning one. I too thought they were dangerous killing machines ..... until I did some proper research on the breed. Bad laws will thrive unless good people stand against them.

I agree about being furious with the owners. Being furious with the dogs and labelling them 'vile monsters' does nothing and only promotes the idea that these dogs allowed themselves to be this way when, in fact, the owner has allowed them to be this way. The owners didn't have a high enough fence to contain their dogs, the dog's behaviour is genetic Hi m-sass can you produce proper scientific evidence to support your claim? Most of the evidence I have read is totally opposite but I like to be balanced

Did you call Ned a "monster"? No. RIP Ned and your Resolved thread if you want to remind yourself. I am certainly reminded of Ned every time you put forth an opinion on dogs. But you said amstaffs were one of your three favourite breeds and you'd worked with them in the past. ned has no place in this thread and I believe your posts are inflammatory and hurtful Amstaffs are one of my favourite breeds and I have worked with them, I've never studied their colouring and have never worked with an amstaff of the colouring of the dogs in the thread. It is truly difficult to read posts such as these from someone who attested she knew everything,and then, unable to manage a Gordon Setter, had him put down rather that let club rescue or some experienced person take and assess him. It does seem that your kmowledge of bull breeds is about the same as your knowledge of GS - from your own words. And yes, I do find it very hurtful to hear of a dog being denied his full chance in life because someone thought they knew everthing. Dogs - whether rescues or from breeders are for life, not until they menace the chooks. If you don't have the experience, let someone else handle it

sorry you lost your girl, never easy shame you are in NSW, I have a gorgeous black boy ... mated with research; raised with knowledge, love and care ; a stunning, show quality boy avilable as a pet to the right lifetime home. Good luck with your search, ensure the parents are clear of FN and PRA

Dogs are carnivores, and their stomachs and methods of digestion were designed to eat meat. I think it might be possible to feed a dog a vegan diet without killing him, but I think you would need to be extremely careful. People on here have used a vegan diet, and they might reply Some of those groups are hell bent on finishing pet ownership, and a lot of this advice is aimed at that. Further, they don't really care whether your dog is harmed or not, as long as their agenda is furthered.

Mrs Rusty Bucket This is my take on it - from newspaper and coroner's report. The dog may or may not have been socialised, and he may or may not have regularly lived at the address where he currently was. However, it does appear he was not out of the backyard very often So he would have been excited. He ran up to the Chols and their family who were loading their car. They chased him off and he ran across the road, and it was thought he was playing with the people there. Now it is possible that he was annoyed about being chased off, and according to reports, he was playing with other people. The Chol family were Somali or Sudanese, I think? Neither race likes dogs much, and they smell different from Australians. additionally, they were probably jumping up and down and flapping their arms .... when the dog went for the first child, they were probably screaming again and the dog's level of excitement increased. When they all ran inside, the dog followed them ... I would think his drive was in overdrive by then, and he attacked. I knew a lovely registered labrador, a big one. He was a marvellous dog, if you went into the yard, he would go "woof" a couple of times, and go back to sleep. Unless ... you were aboriginal. And then he would go ballistic. If they walked on the footpath outside his house he would go mad trying to get them through or over the fence. He would run along,biting and snapping at them. Mostly they walked on the other side of the road, and he would not allow one into his yard. I was told by a "dog man" that different races smell differently. Don't think I am absolving the dog, or his owners. I really don't think the owners thought he would do that, but whatever, he should not have been able to exit the yard. And I don't think those attacked thought he would attack them so savagely ... and they were frightened from the beginning. But - I think Mrs Rusty Bucket has it - if the people had basically ignored the dog, the outcome might have been better. I do wish, and have always wished, that the authorities would allow these dogs to live long enough to find out exactly why they attacked. The whole situation is just so terribly sad --- if the dog had been securely contained, none of this would have happened. Moral is to keep your dog in, and make sure he is socialised with as many people and in as many situations as possible. Once again, the government has made THE BREED the scapegoat, so they can introduce more severe laws, instead of laying the blame where it belongs, with THE DEED and the INDIVIDUAL DOG.

Really??????? No vet clinic I have ever worked in was paid for selling any food. I would love to know who does actually get paid for selling dog food I think perhaps what was meant is that the vet clinic is selling the food, and thus getting the diff between wholesale and retail....but probably doesn't realise how small that margin is. Posters should be aware that "nutrition for dogs" is not studied in any depth at vet school. The students have a couple of lectures by reps from dog food companies, and if they are interested in nutrition must do their own research. Also, in a 10 minute appointment, it is difficult to properly advise on a balance raw diet for dogs, whereas dry dog food IS balanced. I think it would be difficult to do any scientific study on raw vs dry - although I do think the manufacturers put figures out there - whether they are any use or not is another matter. If you buy a copy of Give A Dog a Bone by an Billinghurst, you will find lots of arguments in there for raw. About $20 copy Personally - these are my reasons raw is much cheaper I know the food is fresh and wholesome There is evidence (Dr Larry Glickmann, Purdue) that raw is better for Cavaliers because raw strengthens the heart muscle/connective tissue and helps prevent MVD. none of my dogs have ever had skin or health issues on a raw diet I don't think wild dogs simply nick behind a bush to gobble up some Advance or something. And I wouldn't like a diet of baked beans or something day in day out, I think variety is good for dogs, and keeps their appetite honed

Cavaliers usually do better in the ring for the people they live with and most wont take to a handler they only see occasionally. Show her yourself. There are a few people who could help. If you want someone to do that, please pm me

Breeding dogs shouldn't be the given rights for just anyone in a free for all environment, breeding dogs IMHO needs to be controlled sooner rather than later and the breeders of crap dogs need to be held questionable as to what they are producing. Given that primarily only Bull breeds and crosses are potentially effected by BSL, if you buy a papered one instead of a BYB, you don't have to worry about what the council reckons do you?? Tell the ranger that and it will all good then?? You have missed the whole point of my post. I give up. While people with your mindset have input, BSL will only increase. The point was that the dog was not a pitbull or pitbull relation, it had done nothing wrong, and yet, it would be taken away and killed. As has happened many thousands of times already. You obviously can't see a problem with dogs being carted off the bumped off at some government whim. m-sass And what, in your opinion, is a "crap dog?"

Did your husband chastise her for illegally riding her bicycle on the footpath? He could also have threatened to call the cops.

It's interesting to note how people are fast to determine that a crossbreed dog of Pitbull appearance is not a Pitbull or has no Pitbull ancestory where in fact in most cases of crossbreed combinations the breeders wouldn't know the ancestory behind the breeding let alone the buyers.......so what's the "no Pitbull" based on??, the breeder said so I suppose which makes it alright then?? Point is: Crossbreed Bully pups could be Pitbull X or near on pure for that matter and the choice is buy one and take a punt or not I told you the pup had no pitbull blood. You do think it is ok to knock any medium sized short haired dog off as "pitbull" no matter that it has done nothing wrong, whether it has any pitbull blood or not. That is sad.

What's wrong with a bit of creative management........we are talking box tickers here......what would you need to produce for a ranger to leave happily without your dog on a seizure mission In my experience (which is more than you would think), a switched on and Hitleresque lawyer!! m-sass And do you think it is fair, reasonable and equitable that someone should acquire a cute puppy which is the product of two crossbred dogs - neither of which have any pitbull - and when it grows up, it is tan with light eyes, it never does anything wrong, and it is sitting on the lawn one day, minding its own business when the ACO comes and grabs it, and the council will not let the owners see it again, or have the body returned after they have knocked it off? Can you tell me why that dog should die? It's not a pitbull. It has never done anything wrong. It should be killed, why? Someone who only thinks purebred dogs should continue to live, is not, imho, a true dog lover. Mantis, of course you are correct.

how much is a massive dose? I gave a Whippet six 1000 IU tablets twice a day till the condition improved. You can not overdose so I have been told. They only pee out what they don't use. Excessive excess can give them diarohea. If they get that, time to reduce the dose a bit.

Very cute and sweet, but as cunning as an outhouse rat!! A thinker and a doer!!

Hope she will be ok. Gr 1 gives hope. One of mine has a mct off at 2, died at 10. And don't feel bad, I took her to the vet about a lump on her neck which was growing really fast, and when I was there, I mentioned a warty looking thing on her stomach which had never grown at all and had been there for months. Lump on her neck was an insect bite, the warty looking thing was a mast cell tumour!! I was just lucky, I think.

Apologies, I'd actually misread steamboat's post and thought their pup was not registered but the parents were. You are probably right on this point, does anyone know of any test cases involving a staff? Qld, but think the same would apply in Vic. Dog was ANKC registered staffy, was seized - owner couldnt find the papers, ACOs didn't believe her, dog was destroyed. Forgotten the details now. That was the outline. Sumosmum I am rather bemused about that. At 40kg, the dog is well outside the standard. "The Publc" seem to think that APBT are really big, but they are not. I don't know how the dog can fill the criteria at that size. Not allowing any photos is worrying too, + if the sire is not restricted breed, how can the dog itself fit the standard, and be declared?

We encourage all our potential puppy owners to come out before pups are born & do a meet & greet. Then all parties can discuss any questions or decide whether its the type of people they wish to deal with & the pet owners can decide whether what they see is what there expecting to buy . When puppies are there people often will buy with there heart not there head . If anything pay attention to the time your there ,whilst most of us wish to spend quality time some people think that means hrs . They still have a private life & the dogs to deal with . What showdog said, and NEVER take someone else with you for the visit unless the breeder knows and approves. I would be careful about wine too - they may not drink, or their taste may run to $200 bottles!! A nice flan or pastry if you are expected to be there for lunch/morning tea should be fine.

I thought exactly the same thing, dougal!

If, as I understand it, the OP's partner's parent had the dog immediately prior to it going to its present home, why didn't they desex it? It seems that the dog was returned to the breeder as an older puppy, so, he too should have desexed it. Juice, my research leads me to believe that early age desexing is not in the dog's best interests. As there is no standard for rescue dogs, people have no idea how tall they should be, or what their coat should be like, etc. With registered purebred dogs, they do, and they are mighty unimpressed when their dog which was desexed as a babe grows too tall with the wrong coat. There also seems to be a lot of evidence that early desexing leads to a lot of future health problems.

Wasn't that a labrador which went ballistic last year and attacked its owners ? Or was that a Golden Retriever. Labradors and Retrievers were always higher on the bite stat lists than APBT - before the bans, obviously, and now. This is old, dead ground which does not stand up to scientific examination and is promoted by those whose research has been limited to and influenced by the Sydney Morning Herald. More people die from shark attacks and are killed by horses than ever die from dog attacks. Go figure.

Toy poodles gaiting - they are just so proud and "forward". Fantastic. Nearly make you cry Also - Pekingese - I like the way they roll when they walk, and they way they don't seem to give a rats about anything - they are just doing their own thing. Good movers of any breed but I will go ringside to watch the above two, where I wont with anything else.

It wasn't on last night. I was told it was on fortnightly, so it should be on next Wednesday.