Jed

I made a simple comment without putting much thought into it to be honest. When I think of mature dogs on DOL, I think of dogs that are no longer needed by a breeder for showing or breeding. 'Ex-stock' as such. I've seen many of these in the Pug world and many are being re-homed entire to pet homes. I hadn't really contemplated other reasons. Not always - plenty of mature breeding or show animals change homes. I bought my second stud dog when he was - forgotten - about 2, - and that was good for me, because at that stage I had NFI how good or otherwise a pup would turn out, though I could pick a mature dog. He had sired pups, he had won bob at a royal. He wasn't on dol, the breeder sold him to me because he had other dogs, he liked showing, and had young dogs with his prefix to bring on, and he felt the dog would thrive with fewer dogs, plus, he wasn't going to use him much, and he thought he would be wasted if he was not used a bit, and I suspect that it may have been to give me a good leg up in the breed. Sometimes people will sell a dog which is not winning a lot in the city to someone who shows in the country, or an adult dog which is overshadowed by another in the kennel to another state or location.

Shonky!! Also not transferrring the papers is against the COE of the CCs.

Many negatives. I looked into it a few years, disussed with a couple ofveterinary specialists, a repro specialist and a MACVSc with a specialty in surgery, and I did a lot of research into long term effects, and decided the negatives were many and the positives few. As a breeder of one of the breeds most favoured by pf, it bothers me, but the alternatives are worse, imho. So far the interror-gations have worked, and I make buyers sign an agreement that they will not rehome or sell. I do accept that there are some physical drawbacks to early desexing. However the serious ones are not common. Jed the benefits are that your pup has no chance of ending up in a puppy farm subjected to a life of misery. The benefit is also that your dog cannot be bred from with the boxer from down the road. Your bloodlines go only to the people that are registered breeders/exhibitors. Signing an agreement at the time of purchase unfortunately guarantees nothing. Doing rescue makes you realise how often these verbal/written contracts are breached. A year down the track when there is potential money to be made they can be easily forgotten. I am not saying that everybody should be desexing their pups, I am saying that if you don't then you must accept some possibility that you are contributing to back yard breeding and puppy farming. Whether it's the dog you sold or the progeny of the dog you sold. The purebred and often papered dogs involved don't come out of thin air! Registered breeders also often rehome mature dogs without desexing them. They are all over the breed pages of DOL. There is absolutely no excuse for that. I have always, and will always do whatever is in the best interests of the welfare and health of the dogs I breed. Always. So far, there are no representatives of my breed in puppy farms. One went to a dodgy home, so I changed the way I did things. I don't accept any responsibility for any possibility that I am contributing to puppy farming, or byb. Nor have any of my dogs fetched up in rescue. And I don't feel any need to justify myself, but I rescued for years.

Many negatives. I looked into it a few years, disussed with a couple ofveterinary specialists, a repro specialist and a MACVSc with a specialty in surgery, and I did a lot of research into long term effects, and decided the negatives were many and the positives few. As a breeder of one of the breeds most favoured by pf, it bothers me, but the alternatives are worse, imho. So far the interror-gations have worked, and I make buyers sign an agreement that they will not rehome or sell.

Troy and Sandoz have the same ingredients - I have been using Troy Calcium Syrup for a couple of years, it is much cheaper.

Alpha Ceri oil is great for cockers. You can either use it neat, or dilute 1/3 AC to 2/3 water and spray on. Although it is called an oil, it isn't and it doesn't pick up dirt and grass the way an oil does. Also have your vet check him for mange mites - these are invisible, and although unlkely, they can be a source of scratching. Revolution will stop them, if that is the case. If didn't have the problem when he came, revert to what the breeder suggested, it may be due to new additions to the diet since he came to live with you.

Kissidndra There is no voting by CCCQ members for the council, which is appointed by the RNA. There was a postal vote of members (oh, last year maybe?) to change the way the council is appointed - to annual elections. The motion was defeated. So there is no choice, but it is what the members decided. If you have points of issue, you can either raise them with the CCCQ office, or one of the councillors, or one of the members of a subcommittee. Bottom line is that members don't have a lot of power, and apparently are happy with that. I am a member because I must be, to register my dogs, and although I think the CCCQ missed the boat/didn't act/or acted inappropriately in certain circumstances (not to do with breeding matters), generally it's ok with me, and I am happy to abide by the coe. As long as you realise it is a body for the registration of dogs, and running shows etc, training judges etc. you don't expect anything else much, so you are not too unhappy. Re the dogs seized - I hope they will be fostered into very kind and loving homes. They haven't had a very good deal so far, and they deserve better. People who foster them should realise that a lot of them will have issues, and some have never been inside a house, or recived much attention, and in my experience, dogs like this are often perceived to be behaving badly, when they are confused and stressed, and trying hard to oblige. Suppose someone will explain that to would be fosterers. Cavalier, if you want an adult cavalier, there are often rescues available, or breeders rehoming ex show dogs or ex breeding dogs -- not many, and you need to be fast. Cav rescue often has dogs looking for good homes.

Kissindra I knew what you meant by CCQ ... It was "organisation" as bolded above I was enquiring about. Or were you saying the CCCQ provides services for people whose activities you are not in agreement with? If so, yep, but I have no choice. Like paying taxes really, don't agree with what they do, but have to cough up anyhow. Must say, I do agree with most of what the CCCQ does. I am not regulated into giving to the RSPCA, so don't.

Why? Did you want to buy a pup from her?

kissindra Which organisation is that? If you give stuff to the RSPCA rather than money, I do believe it does go to the dogs. I wouldn't give them anything, except bubonic plague or boils, but people have to make up their own minds, and if you think they are ok, go for it, I guess.

If Biosecurity is paying for the upkeep, why is the RSPCA soliciting donations for their upkeep? Why are they not informing the public that Biosecurity is paying for the upkeep. Why is the RSPCA asking for donatons of food and whelping boxes etc, when they intend fostering out as many dogs as possible? Why are they allowing pregnant bitches to whelp, and will probably sell yet more pups without health tests and dodgyy ancestryy? They can't home the dogs in the pound now, why produce more? And as ever, the "purebred" pups will sell before the pound dogs, so more pound dogs will be pts. Why are the bitches not being speyed now? Although that may affect the court case. Why are bitches being allowed to raise pups in a stressful and potentially hazardous to the pups' health environment. Kissindra, I know you are trying to do the right thing for these poor dogs, and that's wonderful. I know you don't know the answers. Maybe someone does.

Why would you assume that they would actively seek to euthanize these animals? I know there are issues within the organisation and plenty of people here have had poor experiences with their local rspca, but to suggest that they would actually prefer to PTS rather than adopt out adoptable dogs is ridiculous. Perhaps Robbi - and a lot of other people - assumed that because of the outcome of numerous similar past cases?

Probably Bio Tech, considering the RSPCA has been fielding complaints for at least 5 years!!

Treasure this moment, it may not happen again, it has not happened before .......... RSPCA for this one action. Took 'em long enough!!

It is the way the dogs were kept.

*nods*

Couldn't see any videos. Maybe they have been taken off.

Sorry b.jane05, but it does happen. For anyone thinking about breeding with no one to ask. Often if a pup in a litter has two problems, no matter what they are, the pup generally will probably be defective - and there are likely to be other problems as well, which are not discovered until later. There is no scientific basis for the above statement, just experience and hands on knowledge. Some pups just aren't made right, or viable. In fairness, the staffy with the hare lip could have been fine otherwise. And if it had been 100% physically, it could still have had brain damage, which might not have been obvious till later. Bad luck for the owner, who tried to hard.

Hi Muffin, I've had Cavs for about 16 years now. Our first Cav, Nancy, died of heart failure (not MVD) at 14 1/2, she was Sunchant Trendsetter (giving the breeder a plug here!!). Poppy died at 12 1/2 from a stroke, her heart (tested by stethoscope at the vets was clear), Lenny died at 12 - just old age. Ruby will be 12 on 29th of this month, and apart from being old, is otherwise well. Velvet turned 12 in June, she has had a Gr. 1 murmur (MVD) since she was 9. She is not on medication, and is healthy. They were and are, all registered Cavaliers. I hope my two old chookies will be with me for a long time yet.

I'd also recommend "Dogs and How to Breed Them" by Hilary Harmer. Might be worth checking out ebay or Amazon. Should also read everything Roy Burnell has written - "Sporting Dogs" is good, and you may be able to borrow from the library. Stay close to your breeder, talk to other breeders, ask for advice, weigh it all up. Discuss possible matings with your breeder, mine have always been a wealth of advice. One of my girls is expectng in a few weeks, and my breeder and I discussed this mating for about 12 months before I sent her to the dog. I hope the pups are worth all the talk!! (But I can now blame the breeder if they aren't ). Also remember that the dog may have a fault, so it's worth looking at his parents and his progeny to see whether he throws it or not - or to see if he throws something he doesn't have. And it does happen. Breeding is frustrtating, annoying, debilitating, heartbreaking, and expensive, but so rewarding - when it goes right.

What research is this??? Prior to parvo vaccinations huge numbers of dogs died from parvo virus infections. It is now preventable.... Sorry, you misunderstand - and re-reading, I see why. I am not advocating no vac. When dogs were vac. for distemper is was believed that being in public places where distemper had been boosted immunity - as it does. And the research would still be there - you'd just have to go back decades to find it. If you are asking about research on vaccinating annually now, look on this forum for validation, or google Dr. Jean Dodds, Dr. Bob Rogers - particularly Dodds. Plenty of research and information there. That was the reason the AVA changed the vac protocol in Aust. There was a time when there were no parvo vaccinations, dogs were just vaccinated against distemper, there was no parvo. Of course parvo is preventable.

Thanks Pandii, I'll see if I can get a purina packet.

A while back, there was a really good thread here on Royal Jelly products. I can't find it. If anyone has a link, could they post it please? Or, if anyone uses Royal Jelly products on their dogs, could you give a name or link for your supplier, please? Ta muchly :D

I saw some Bonnie, and some Purina Adult Chicken and Rice today. They look terribly similar. I believe both are made by the same company. I didn't see the ingredients list for either, but am going to find out if they are the same. Purina is about $30 for 7kg, Bonnie is about $36 for 20 kg. Maybe they use the same extruding machines to make the product, but the ingredients are different?

I know of one case in Q - near Tarome, definitely confirmed. Foxie which only received 1 puppy vaccination. Believed that he caught it from foxes. Distemper is spread by foxes, and from what I've read, it is believed it is in most fox populations. Vaccinating your dog annually is more likely to make it susceptible to distemper. As it is to make the dog more susceptible to parvo etc. according to research. Prior to the parvo combined vacs, it was believed that dogs being in contact with other dogs, public places etc. continually increased immunity. Can't see why that still wouldn't hold true.