Jed

mlc Thank you. I love learning, I love a good seminar. Alas, there's not much for me there - we already have a central registry, its called the ANKC, I know what happens to house dogs which go to kennels, from reports of Dr Bennet's seminar in Tas, I would think it was a waste of my precious time, Dr McGreevey's views are well publicised. I hear he is interesting, but flawed. Oogh, canine research, I like that. Will someone be able to tell me about new breakthroughs in the identification of the gene responsible for RD, or luxating patellas, or even the mode of inheritance? That's the type of research I love to hear about - the sort that will make me a better breeder. If it's not a promotion of cross bred dogs, representatives from the ANKC should have been invited. If it walks like a duck, quacks, looks like a duck, it's a duck, pure and simple. I don't think it is a promotion of cross bred dogs, it's a promotion of animal rights and being further allowed to encroach on the purebred dog fancy. And yet another bashing of purebred dogs and their breeders, using skewed figures overridden by unbiased research which research will not be mentioned, to brainwash people into believing that purebred dogs have a myriad of problems which will be solved by some academics with an agenda and little practical experience. You were hoping for a good roll up to push your agenda. Sounds like Don Burke revisited to me. Gee, many have said they will be attending. Perhaps the ones who have PM'd you are frightened you might bite them? Maybe work on your image a bit? Absolutely not permitted, so you might try harder in future. Does "all getting along" mean we all have to agree with you? Erny - that bothers me too. No one is saying the right things *goes off to study Sun Tzu again* Sandgrubber I agree with you. Registered breeders are only as good as their integrity, mentors, source of learning, and will to learn. Some learn and succeed, some just do the same thing in the same place for years, some come, fail, leave. As much as we like to bag the ANKC, it is working for health and quality in purebreds. There's a difference between working for health and quality and driving people out Whether cross breds will come under a health and welfare umbrella is another matter. I think not. The purebred community has one goal, and one agenda, although both very broad. The mong breeders have as many goals and agendas as they number. The worst of the pedigree dogs are better than the worst of the designer mongs, but the registered breeders do have an organisation, which the mong breeders do not. And I very much doubt that most of the mong breeders want an organisation, they simply want to continue to do as they like, and rake in the moolah. the mongs already have the greater market share and have had for years. Few registered breeders give a rats about that. Supply and demand and promotion plays a large part in that. I don't see mongs as having any relevance to registered dogs, nor do I care what mong breeders do, except for damage done to the dogs. Mong breeders have different goals, different aspirations, different motivations. Hostility? Unfortunately, most of the public does not understand about a lot of things about breeding dogs - not the mechanics, the things breeders stive for. I don't think they particularly want, or need to understand, although it is not "secret business". They do not understand the relevance of points in the breed standards, they do not understand that by changing a point, something else will be changed - and mostly, they don't care. They want a happy, healthy dog which fits their lifestyle, which suits their particular training style and which is easy for them to love. Consider - the Cav standard calls for straight silky hair. Too easy. Some cavs have wavy hair. The wavy coat tends to be coarser. Not a big deal? Nope. Except that the straight silky hair knots less, holds the dirt less, smells less and requires less grooming. And if it knots, the knots are easier to remove. I know when I sell a pup with the hair type as required by the standard, it is unlikely that the dog will be at the groomers in a matted to the skin mess. It's only a small point, but it's a point which means the difference between success and failure for some owners. It is, in fact, a very important point, although very few owners realise it, and some breeders don't either, although the ones who have lived with both coats do know. That's the kind of thing breeders know and strive for, but the public doesn't know. There are many many items like that with every breed, and these are often the things which highlight success or failure for the pet owner. Boxers have a reputation for slobbering, but a boxer with a correct mouth and satisfactory flews slobbers very little if at all. People don't understand the standards, they don't understand the difference between a coated dog they have to groom for a couple of hours a night, and one which is ok with a bit of a brush off every week. They think all boxers slobber. I think it is rather sad that someone who doesn't seem to understand the standard wants to crossbreed dogs to change them. You should first understand that which you wish to change. And puppy buyers generally are more satisfied with purchases from reputable breeders (read this forum for verification) and the majority of breeders do try very hard to do the right thing. A larger proportion than the mong breeders, as far as I can tell. Yep, some mongs are great but it's all Russian roulette, isn't it? Breeding purebred dogs shouldn't be Russian roulette.

Yes, but then the breeder would get done by the RSPCA when the pullalong dog's string broke and for not providing a lifetime supply of batteries. How about one which plugged into the mains power to recharge? And Kevlar string? I understand the Bill Clinton BOB has both those attributes. Of course, you can't take your Bill BOB walking, but it is the same principle. I hear there was a Malcolm Turnbull BOB but it didn't really take off. Maybe Eurodog could be a multipurpose dog and a BOB? I see some benefits there.

Oh, incidentally, Kate, I notice you are cross breeding beagles so they lose their sense of smell. I hope you will apply to the government for permission to crop the ears of the pups. Every hound which uses scent, world wild, has pendulous ears. This is beause it is felt that the ears "trap" the scent, helping to keep the dog on it. There is no scientific proof, of course, but I am prepared to go with anecdotal evidence - often hundreds of years of anecdotal evidence. If the mutts you breed don't have much sense of smell, do have them cropped. They wont need long ears Hounds which use scent as a hunting tool and have pendolous ears include Bloodhounds, Bluetick Coonhounds, Beagles, Finnish Hound, Basset Hound, Cheins Francaises, Chein Francais Blanc et Orange, Gascons-Saintongeois (Grand and Petit), Porcelaine, Bruno Jara Laufhunds, Luzemer Laufhund, Luzemer Neiderlaufhund. There are heaps more too, but I coiuldn't be arsed putting them here. It's really hilarious, isn't it, that dogs which do the same job, no matter where they originated, all have very similar features so they can do a similar job, anywhere, with the same degree of skill and success. Course it's hilarious. If you haven't read a standard, ir's a complete joke. If you have read a standard, you understand fully why these breeds, most of which were developed in totally different regions, in different continents, without the breeders ever seeing most of the other simllar breeds, are similar Because those are the features which allow them to do their job better than any other breed. But I suppose if you cross a staffy, with his little ears, with the beagle, you should get short ears, in some of the F1 progeny. Of course, you will lose the attributes which make the staffy so popular, and the attributes which make the Beagle such a wonderful and trustworthy family dog. So you may well breed and independent dog, which likes to wander, but which loves to beat up other dogs on those wanders, oh and a few cats and rabbits. Yep, definitely an improvement. But I guess that is less important than no sense of smell. One size fits no one. Most gun dogs, particularly those which retrieve from close to the hunter, have pendulous ears, often covered in long hair - this is to protect their hearing from the noise of the guns. Some have ears which reach their nose, or longer - this is so they too can catch a scent from the ground when finding and retrieving fallen game. Not all retrievers are expected to do this, bur you can see which ones do from the length of their ears. Of course, Irish Setters have different feet from English Setters because they worked on peaty, boggy ground, and needed different feet to do their jobs. The integrity of the breeds means nothing to those wishing to trash them, to breed some good for nothing cross bred triipe hound, because they have no inkling of why the features of the dogs were bred into them iin the beginning, or don't see it as important. Lose some of those features, and you will lose also the genes responsible for other features - the ones which make breeds the great companions, obedient friends, soft mouthed trustworthy companions, willing and compliant obedience competitors, nnd all round good buddies. And I can't think of anything more repulsive than a boxerdoodle. I want the boxer go guard, to step up to the plate and do what he was bred to do to protect his family. Not to find the friggin intruder and retrieve him to my feet. And to want me to throw him so he can retrieve him again. Where has commen sense flown? But I guess you wouldn't waste your time on a purebred forum, would you?

Some really interesting stuff in there about expression recognition by dogs. And the silver fox segment, which has always fascinated me. I have always known that dogs recognize expressions, so it was good to have it explained. How good was Betsy? I am sure Endal the now deceased Labrador assistance dog in UK could do more than that, would love to know!! Watching that has clarified a lot for me, and it has also explained some things which were happening, and which previous studies negated. For years, I was the owner of a deaf dog - he would look at my face, and if I smiled at him - he smiled back. 100% of the time. If I was abstracted, he would smile, and if I smiled back, he would be so pleased. If I was cranky, he'd cuddle up - I was never cranky at him. I don't think he ever had a negative from me, nor was he ever punished. I always wondered if the lack of one important sense made him use another more. He was the one who would come at night if I turned the torch on him. I always wanted to obedience trial him, but didn't have the time. He titled very easily (deafness wasn't hereditary) with wins at royals etc. Dogs have no much more we haven't even begun to explore, I find it so exciting when something like this comes along.

Ah a seminar. How excitement. So far key speakers are Dr McGreevy, who wants all dogs to be crossbreds, touts hybrid vigour, and the benefits of labradoodles, and is studding his cross bred no breed (and probably no health tests either, don't think there are a lot of tests for mutts) on the internet. This is a small sample of what Dr. McGreevy has to say on "F1 Hybrid Vigour" Animal Welfare 1999 McGreevy & Nicholson (2006) I wont post it, I posted the ad where the mongrel was being studded with no condition on the bitches (apart from paying the fee, as far as I could see, that was obviously the only important bit) and the page mysteriously disappeared. *spooky music* So, we wouldn't want that to happen again. I've saved it though, as I saved the stud ad. If you want a copy, let me know. Of course, all deleterious genes simply fly out the window. The above would no doubt explain why so many of these cross bred mongrels are dumped in pounds. There are about 14 pages, apart from a few sentences which are demonstrably provable. Deja vu - sounds just like, just like, just like Don Burke Strange that a vet and a garderer should sound the same. And the gardener wanted to take over the management of purebred dog breeding according to his writings in his magazine in ... oh ... years ago. And here's what Hilary has to say about that Think I'll go with Hilary, she has the runs on the board. Theoretical is fine, but practical is more likely to work, particularly when coupled with sound theory. Wonder if the gardener will be at the seminar? He can tell everyone how Gregor Johann Mendel (1822 - 1884), discoverer of the laws of inheritance, crossed peas and beans to get F1 hybrid vigour. I see great importance in vigour for peans, or beas. I'm sure we all do. Dr. Bennett, whose ethos and goals were discussed in another thread on this forum needs no introduction. She of the anti purebred dog seminar in Tasmania. Will this be a rehash of those notes, I wonder? Kate Schoeffel (Australian Association of Pet Dog Breeders). Needing no introduction, puppy farmer of several designer mutts, all at very high prices, and cross breeder extraordinaire, and the subject of numerous complaints on this very forum over some gilding the lily during sales of labramutts. Australian Association of Pet Dog Breeders was a rather nasty but failed forum, specifically to trade stories of cross bred dogs. According to a poster, she is devoted to producing some sort of mongrel beagle with little sense of smell. How peculiar. Of course, if breeders had not devoted years to developing the beagle, she would not have any breed to desecrate. Mike Goddard (University of Melbourne) Most of his blog sounds good, except for but to do this would require that a central registry was kept of dogs’ status for traits such as HD and epilepsy. Uh huh, say no more. Another building block on the way to the 39 point plan Mia Cobb – Monash University - mlc whom we have met. Tammie King the phd student, whom we have met, being supervised by Dr Bennett. Which leaves Kate Mornement – Vanessa Rohlf and Lisa Tomkins – Might have to ascertain just where they fit in. No doubt the 39 point plan will be discussed. It's too long, but here's the 10 point plan Ten-point plan for dog breeding 1. Collaborate: encourage collaboration amongst all interested parties; facilitate genuine dialogue amongst all interested parties, resulting in positive action that can be embraced by all stakeholders 2. Review breed standards: review breed standards and change them where necessary; provide incentives to encourage the breeding of healthy dogs with favourable temperaments 3. Conduct pedigree analyses and monitor the extent of genetic variation: enable pedigree analyses to be conducted on all breeds, to determine the actual levels of inbreeding and loss of genetic diversity. Complementary to the pedigree analyses, obtain estimates of actual genetic diversity levels in all breeds, using any information that may be available. Increasingly in the future, DNA technology (including dog SNP chips) will be used to obtain estimates of genetic diversity 4. Limit the mating of close relatives: recommend that the offspring of any mating between first-degree relatives (parent-offspring; full-sibs), and possibly second-degree relatives (e.g. half-sibs, double-first cousins, uncle-niece/aunt-nephew, grandparent-grandchild), be not registered 5. Import genetic variation from other countries and from other breeds: especially for the numerically-small breeds, encourage and facilitate (a) importation of less-related animals from the same breeds in other countries, and (b) programs involving an outcross to another breed, followed by backcrossing. Provide examples of how this has been done successfully without compromising the integrity of breeds. Such programs are very effective strategies for introducing genetic diversity in numerically-small breeds and for addressing particular inherited disorders in any breed. Progress in such programs can be monitored by genotyping with dog SNP chips 6. Monitor the incidence of inherited disorders: in conjunction with epidemiologists, implement the LIDA strategy for continually estimating the prevalence of inherited disorders within breeds, and for making this information available to breeders, veterinarians, researchers, and potential pet-purchasers 7. Control single-gene disorders: recognise the distinction between: (a) eliminating (or decreasing the incidence of) inherited disorders (which is certainly possible), and (b) eliminating all mutant genes that cause disorders (which is not possible) Consistent with this reality, for known autosomal-recessive disorders, devise guidelines/rules that encourage/ensure that all matings involve at least one parent that is known to be (or has a high chance of being) homozygous normal [this will achieve (a) above]. At the same time, do everything possible to expand research into inherited disorders, especially with the aim of expanding the list of inherited disorders for which DNA markers are available for identifying homozygote normal animals. For practical feasibility, aim to expand current DNA testing to the stage where all available DNA tests can be incorporated in a single dog SNP chip (which can also include DNA profiling) 8. Control multifactorial disorders: for multifactorial disorders, develop schemes (in close collaboration with breeders) for using the most powerful means of predicting the results of any mating (namely estimated breeding values; EBVs), using phenotypic and pedigree data (and in the future, also from DNA marker data); and provide incentives for matings for which the average of the parental EBVs is on the favourable side of the kennel average and/or the breed average 9. Investigate insurance schemes: investigate the potential of insuring breeding stock against throwing offspring with particular disorders, especially those for which neither DNA tests nor EBVs are available. This provides increased financial security for vendors of breeding stock, reduces the likelihood of serious legal disputes between vendors and purchasers, and (very importantly) encourages reporting of disorders 10. Facilitate continuing education for all stakeholders: work with educational institutions to enable breeders, administrators, veterinarians and pet owners to increase their understanding of the biological and ethical issues involved in dog breeding I hope Dr McGreevey, et al, intends providing the funding to prevent disorders as per No 7. So far, only registered breeders have provided any funding to recognize and test for disorders, a bit of help with that from Dr McGreevey would probably be the most beneficial thing he could contribute. I am rather disappointed he thinks breeders are not able to handle #8, and I would like to know what his experience is of "handling multifactorial disorders" - not in the labratory, but in the real world, with quantifiable results, and his experience in the reading of pedigrees, and the weighting of the values contained within those pedigrees, and what studies he has performed to conclude that EBVs will give a better results, with proven reasons. So, we have a puppy farmer, a vet who believes in Hybrid vigour, and the benefit of labradoodles and other oodledoodledandymutts over purebred dogs, we have someone who is keen to see the development of one size fits all, and we have some total unknowns. Do they pay us to go, or do we pay them? Does anyone know?? Obviously these seminars will be televised, and will be promoted heavily to the public, as a way of getting rid of unhelalthy purebred dogs. And when the public is trying to cope with totally unsuitable schoodlemoodledoodles with two coat types and bad attitudes, and so much "hybrid vigour" the buggers are untrainable, with skull and mouth types are so unsuitable they have dental problems, it will be too late, all the nice purebreds, purpose built for a job, and which might have been used to rectify the evils of Eurodog will be gone. And of course, if you are developing a schoodledoodlemoodlefoodle, you need a predictor for temperament. There already is one for purebred dogs. I believe even the originator of the labradoodle mutt came out publicly againt them. Unsuitable as guide dogs, far too many problems, he stated he had produced a monster. As a vendor of breeding stock (Item 9), I think I would be better staying home and investigating the potential of insuring against breeding a shonky pup which someone will sue me for. Of course, I could simply do as I do now, avoid problematic lines, but give them another pup io case of disaster, and everyone would be happy, except the insurance companies, who will no doubt charge us vendors of breeding stock a few grand annually for insurance. But I suppose as a "vendor" I am perceived as having a few extra grand for insurance? And really, I don't see much value in this seminar for me. Dr. McGreevey's ethics and ethos are directly opposed to mine, he may be a vet, but I've been putting the goods on the ground for a very long time - and not by studding a cross bred mutt of dubious parentage, with no health tests. The ethos and ethics of a puppy farmer are also diametrically opposed to mine, the keeping of dogs as agricultural animals in purpose built (or not) sheds is not in the best welfare of those dogs. And I don't need a degree to know that. But in any case, there are numerous studies proving my assertion. Dogs are not agricultural animals. The link to the BBC program I posted on another thread proves that, not that we didn'rt know already. That program also scientifically negates some of what the people (above) have postulated as scientific fact. Of course, there are other scientific papers by other vets/scientists which negate every finding by the above. I hope they are given equal time at the seminar. Perhaps some of those attending would like to take some of them, so there is considered debate on all aspects? Why anyone would want to truck with the hobby of just 40,000 odd people Australia wide baffles me. I cannot believe it is for the "welfare of dogs", If welfare of dogs is the agenda, why is not a plan being drawn up for the keeping of dogs as agricultural animals? It is well known, both as the results of studies overseas, and anecdotal evidence of rhe psychological damage done to dogs kept in that fashion, that such methods are not in line with canine "welfare, and the number of dogs so affected numbers in the hundreds of thousands. Why is much being made of testing and more testing, when pf dogs are not tested at all? Why are EBVs not being discussed in terms of puppy farms? Why are autosomal recessives and PRA not being discussed as relevant to puppy farms? Why is not interest being taken in farms which produce, according to the only figures available, something like 100 TIMES more pups annually than all registered breeders in Australia do? Why are our learned friends not intersted in controlling the breeding in puppy farms, for the greater welfare of dogs in Australia, and the supply of healthier and more suitable pups to the public? Very strange that the major welfare issue is not addressed first. Perhaps that question could be asked at the seminar? Additionally, as the promotion of cross bred dogs is against the rules of this forum, I can see no reason why the promotion of a seminar to promote crossbred dog breeding is not also against the rules of the forum, so I will discuss this matter with Troy, and perhaps he will nuke the thread.

6 parts, this is great. Here is part 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBCp74FNQYA

Sounds pretty ordinary to me, I think the rate is ok, but their communication skills need an upgrade - Petethedog should have been advised what the deal was for Sundays, when he left the dog there. And if the person who answered the phone didn't know anything about Pete, she should have fetched someone who did to speak to the owner. Not that hard. And of course a long haired dog should receive at least minimal grooming so he is not knotted on collection. I'd write a little not saying how disappointed I was, and why. May help them lift their act

Hi Mita, there are so many things the ANKC could do but politics, ambitions, and the usual things committees suffer from seem to intervene. Also, as sandgrubber, some believe it will not happen or not to the extent some of us 'older' breeders do. Older in terms of dog breeding, you understand!! I don't think anything much will make a difference, the might of a fanatical army, with a long range goal, where the goalposts were set up 20 years ago, against a small number of hobbyists, most of whom don't believe there is a problem, with a governing body which doesn't have the time or the expertise to mount a challenge - and which also has never been able to see the danger, or mount an effective defence. sandgrubber, I hope you are right, you will be feeling the sting of the whips, not me. Don't think you are though. The way of the future was written on the wall years ago. I warned of it, and quite a lot of it has happened since then. No reason to believe the rest wont happen, it's all part of the plan. I hope you didn't mean this to read as it does? Puppy buyers should expect little chance of HD, ED, PRA, heart problems, CEA etc in the breed they choose for a pet. It's statements like this which give AR ammunition, and make pet buyers feel as if they are being sold a pup. I don't import semen, like to see the studs in the flesh, but last litter was sired by an imp ch, dog of the year, tests for all nasties done, people got some very nice looking and healthy pets. That's how it should be.

I think the dogs are different, as different lines are different - all should come within the standard. So the temperment and personalities would vary within lines as much as within countries. But the dogs from different countries have different attributes. I think Dutch ones might be generally a bit heavier in bone - but that is just the ones I've seen. Most American lines mature later than English. I have a video link somewhere for the boxer judging at Westminster (USA) which may interest you. Ditto one on UK judging. See if I can find them, and if I do, will post them here for you. I personally haven't seen enough from each country to really be able to accurately answer. Most of the boxers in Aus are mainly English lines, although there are some American lines, and some German and Dutch imports.We based much of our breeding, from early days on our UK imports, Panfield, Witherford, Winawuk, Gremlin, and some USA, Dutch and German imports, although fewer of them than the UK dogs. Breeders in Aust have found that crossing the lines from various countries has, over the years, produced some very good dogs. This site has some comparisons of dogs from various countries, with photos. http://www.worldwideboxer.com/style.html Sjecoin is an Australian kennel with mostly American dogs www.sjecoin.com Miles and Liz Gunter have imported dogs from several countries - Italy, Canada, and there are pictures of them on their website. http://www.guntopboxers.com/ Hope this helps

I only have a manual one. Here it is.

Unfortunately, Mita, the driven, zealots and those with an agenda, seek and get more publicity. I think the ANCK could lift it's act a bit. For everything Dr McGreevy says, there is published evidence to the contrary, but it's not publicised as well. I guess because there is no agenda. Interesting about the longlivety (sp?) of dacshunds. All ours lived well into their teens in good health, except my original girl. She lived to 23, and was pts because she slipped a disc. I'd like to see more studies done on the way dogs are kept and serious studies on diet.

I would also consider having blood work done. It's highly unlilkely, but copper deficiency causes reddening of the coat, though he seems to have more than that. I would also consider giving him a mineral/vitamin supplement if he isn't on one already. Chicken, beans, organs (liver, kidney etc) and grains are rich in copper, so a deficiency is unlikely, but trying a good supplement, or giving him Vit C could help.

Before I had any surgery done, I would have a TOP chiropractor check her out, and perhaps another vet who is used to Cavaliers. Two of my pups (in new homes) was misdiagnosed with LP - one by 2 separate vets. One's back was out, was fixed by the chiro, and has been ok ever since. The other one didn't have anything wrong with him. Cavaliers from some lines go a bit high in the rump at 11 - 13 months, and they either "walk funny" or appear to be limping and sometimes this is diagnosed as LP by some vets. Not saying this is the case with yours, but worth checking. Not saying yours is wrong, but worth another opinion. LP can be caused by trauma (ie, slipping over), but it is usually lateral rather than medial LP I'd also speak to the breeder, if you bought your pup from a breeder. They might have some insights for you. LP can occur in the progeny of parents with LP themselves, but it can also occur in the progeny of parents without LP.

Main thing is to ensure he is not exercised past his "tolerance" level, which I guess isn't a huge problem, and I think it is important to have 6 monthly heart checks by the same vet to keep track of whether it is worsening or not. And of course, keep an eye out for coughing, or a very full looking stomach (fluid build up). Co enzyme Q10 is good for hearts, and it never hurts to have a dog with a heart problem on it. If the dose is one per day for humans, I'd give a 10 - 20kg dog one three times a week, and perhaps twice a week for a chi, depending on his weight. It might be an idea to talk to your vet about this. There has been some research done on humans, but sometimes vets haven't heard of "health shop stuff" and don't have very open minds, but if he does, he can provid you with good information. I never recommed anything to anyone which I haven't researched and tried. Worth googling. May stave off the day he needs medication, ie Frudix and Metacam etc.

This is fairly normal behaviour - particularly for guarding breeds/dogs, terriers etc. Some do and some some don't. A couple of mine do it, but I have encouraged "quiet" patrols, rather than loud ones. They still rush around, checking the boundarier, but they are quiet when they do it. Good suggestions here that will work. Also, if she is a young dog, she may grow out of it. Young dogs are learners. :D

That's the thing, poodles have never been associated with the short clip in media, dog shows or dog breed books, the poodles in the show clip are the ones people identify as poodles because there has never been a concentrated effort to change the image, they only have to see it once or twice in a this context to cement the 'image' of the poodle, similar to the 'handbag' association that chis have. I think so much could be done to show how versatile these dogs can be and how versatile their look can be. What small breed won the agility at the Purina World Dog Games.. a poodle. What breed will you see at many agility and obedience trials - the poodle. What sort of clip does the average poodle walking around the burbs and at the dog park wear - not the show one, that's for sure. They've been army mascots, circus dogs, truffle dogs, guide dogs, assistance dogs and treasured family pets for a long time. Many images of poodles are of those in lamb clip. But folk get hung up on the show clip. And now one of the most people focussed, affectionate breeds suffers in those nightmares of puppy farms to produce cute fluffy pups for people who "don't want a foofy dog". :D: Buying a dog should be an important decision which requires some research. I think it is a pity that people don't do research before they buy. My sister owned a silver miniature poodle when her boys were growing up. She was happy to rough it in the backyard playing rugby, fetching, or just joining in the general melee and barking her head off, or swimming in the pond with umpteen teenage boys, as good family dogs should. Coco was also happy to have her toenails painted hot pink, wear a very upmarket bow and rhinestone collar and lead and be a total lady at very upmarket cocktail parties, or ladies soirees, and was well known for her excellent behaviour and general "socialness". She had her photo in Womens Weekly quite a few times. As all poodles, she was a dog for all seasons. If people did their homework, and knew enough not to follow the recommendations of a gardener, they would be a lot better off with their choice of dog. There's a tradie who lives around here somewhere who has two standard poodles in the back of his Triton - one apricot, one white, in full show clip. What an impressive sight they are. I know a delightful cocker x poodle - Harry is chocolate, and a great little dog. However, he could be a purebred poodle, he has all the poodle attributes, can't see any cocker at all. He came from the pet shop, parents had no health checks at all, think they simply should have bought a poodle. Would have been cheaper, anyhow. Also, worth checking out the Portugese Water dog. They have "serious" looking clips, and nice natures. They do shed, but minimally.

Lagotto The very best breeding dogs of any breed are the properly registered purebreds. No registered breeder would sell a halfway decent dog to a puppy farm, so the breeding dogs puppy farms use are purchased from pet shops, or from other puppy farms. So they are a long way from "quality". The occasional one is a registered purebred which was deemed not good enough for breeding and was sold as a pet. And the puppy farm acquired it by devious means. However, these are the minority, and some of the purebreds in puppy farms are purebred in name only. There is no proof that the pup will be what the "papers" say it is, so if it is half Jack Russell, so sad, too bad, there is no avenue of complaint - except for the Department of Fair Trading and trying to prove that your dog is not what you bought is akin to trying to keep an iceblock in your glovebox in summer. If the pup is indeed a cocker x poodle, it has a chance of inheriting coat type from both parents, so it may have cocker coat, or it may have poodle coat, or a mixture of the two. If the latter happens, the poodle wool will prevent the cocker hair from falling off the dog when it sheds, so it will be caught in huge unsightly mats. As the 'soft' mouth of a cocker can lead to too many folds in the bottom lip which cause problems, good cocker breeders are aware of this, and breed away from it. The people who keep puppy farms have no idea, and will use anything which is female anyhow, so there is a problem that the pup will inherit a problem with folds which need cleaning out daily, which harbour infection, and which smell. Both poodles and cockers can inherit PRA. Crossing the breeds does not make the genes which cause PRA fly out the window, so the parents should be DNA certified PRA clear. If there is no "clear" certificate, your friend is possibly buying a dog which can go blind in middle age. Not to mention HD. Poodles and cockers have different temperaments and natures, and when you cross them, you have no idea which the pup will inherit and sometimes it's not pretty. Bit of a pig in a poke really. And at top prices. There was a time when people bought cross breds because they were cheaper, now they cost more. I think a proper Lagotto, from a decent breeder, from health tested parents, would cost about the same as a pup reared with hundreds of others in a shed with no real idea about the parents. Mita has posted heaps of links to the study done by the Companion Animal Centre at UQ which proves the dogs turn out better, and make better pets when they are raised with a lot of breeder involvement and human interaction during their formative weeks. There is a earlier Spanish study which proves the same thing. And a Lagotto will turn out similar to it's parents, both of whom are the same. There is no question about type, or coat, or anything else. What you see in the parents is what you get in the pup. Which is more than anyone can say about a cocker x spoodle. And you should get breeder involvement and help. And surely there is some social kudos in owning a dog with a long history and ancestry? A dog which has proved itself over years and years. If cocker x spoodle crosses are the ducks guts, as endlessly advertised, why do so many of them fetch up in the pound? Far more than cockers of poodles. People who breed dogs for money cut corners, or didn't bother to find out, and didn't care. Ask her to ask them about DNA certificates for PRA and see what they say. It wont be pretty Could be because they didn't turn out as expected. And why would they? How could anyone have any expectations for a cross bred dog? If you could had enough money to buy a Mercedes, why on earth would you buy a car cobbled together from panels and bits from a holden and a volkswagon by someone with no teeth, few skills in an overgrown, weedly backyard, for the same price? Or tell her to get a poodle, and give it a tough haircut!!

Oh, I do like that. I notice our very own Dr McGreevy from Sydney Uni has had several papers on the Canadian Veterinary Association website, spreading his own version of cross breeding dogs for fun and profit too, and trashing purebred dogs.

That's crazy. Have the legislators been sipping too much Yarra water? Kneeling on the bank at full moon with 1m long straws? So, you take your dog on a 1.5m lead, and you change to a 1 m lead near schools/shops etc? What happens if you are a 6' tall man with a chihuahua? Or a dacshund? What happens if the dog is prone to rush off? there is no slack in the lead, so he can catch you unaware and nick off, which he can't do if you have longer lead - held close in your left hand, with the slack in your right. Who does make these laws? The same people who want "insert batteries here" dogs? Again, no one will take any notice until someone is caught and fined. And it wont be someone doing anything wrong. Too many wrong laws, People need to be aware of ALL these numpty laws.

Oh, who would know what was the problem with the dog RSPCA uses, and has always used dogs with problems for this type of emotive and money grabbing publicity. Doesn't seem to matter what is actually wrong with the dog, make it look as bad a possible, and as expensive as possible, because more of the public will then donate - and probably more!! And yes, it's a good opportunity to stick the boot into breeders, but maybe the dog's breeder needed it, I don't know. Now the public thinks all Shar Peis need zillions of dollars spent on their facelifts But the donation tin would have been full and running over after that story, which killed 2 birds with 1 stone. Would also have to question why the RSPCA would spend $1000 on one dog, when they are euthanasing hundreds of others over this period. Surely the money could have been used to keep other dogs a little longer, to enhance their opportunity of finding a home? Oh, but wait, I forgot, it's not about getting homes, it's about getting money, and Roland did it well. I have to ask. Would the RSPCA have spent $1000 on a cattle x kelpie, or a staffie x cattle dog with the same problem? Remember Clifford?

What's a Korean Jindo, and what does it look like please?

Naw, if he is like 99% of entire dogs, he would never have even thought about it - unless he could smell eau de in season bitch, or see one! And leg lifting is an established behaviour, so he will keep doing it. To stop them leg lifting, they need to be desexed before they think about lifting their legs, and a lot of them still do it. the only time leg lifting is inappropriate is if is done on inappropriate things - and that's simply a matter of "house" training. RL01, think you should tell us who your vet is - he deserves a free plug - and maybe we will all rock around and make him rich!! Stormie - I stayed when one of my girls was being desexed. About 6 minutes for the anaesthetic prep, injection, setting up on the table, spey over in about 25 minutes, injected to neutralize anaesthetic, took her home, still groggy, but fine. Well under 3/4 hour. When I was a bit of a gel, my local vet (now a Big Time Specialist) could organise cat neuters for a 6 pack by 5th year vet students. He'd supervise if they needed it, but it was good practise for them. It really helped me, as my propoerty seemed to have an invisible sign that read "Unwanted Cats Here" - whether it was a sign that only cats could read, or whether people dumped them, I never knew, but boy, we had some cats!! The ops took very little time for the boys, and a bit longer for the girls. One took over an hour, but a very nervous student 'fessed up that he was a virgin speyer!! He said he probably should have drunk the beer first!! Puss was fine!

I use it mixed with water in a spray bottle to keep coats soft and help prevent knots. It doesn't pick up dirt too much, and keeps the coat soft

He is licking the eyeballs to test how tasty they are. If they are to his liking, he will eat one.

Thanks Erny. Trouble is, only some of the cells work - I know I've read something, but I can never remember where!! And I have extreme difficulty finding it again!! Appreciated