Jed

There are such a lot of infringements to choose from - docking, debarking, recklessly breeding, not weaning the pups at 3 weeks, not giving them, or the dogs, individual bowls, not getting the bitch checked by the vet post whelping --- the list goes on and on. I hope Vic owners and breeders know the legislation thoroughly. The most frightening thing is that they can take your dogs to some horrible pound, as they did with Judy Gard's dogs, chop bits out of their show coats, do invasive procedures, as they did with asal\s dogs and return them to you, with filthy diseases, costing a mint for the vet to fix, after you have spent 3 or 4 grand on legal fees to get them back, It's one of those days when I think it would be simpler to be an unregistered breeder, no records at an easily accessed place, no pubic addres, no names, no pack drill, happily flying under the radar.

And here we have the root of the problem. The person who took that puppy didn't want it any more, or didn't care enough about it to find it when it got out. There is no over supply of dogs - what there is an oversupply of is people who are not committed to keeping the dog, people who did not train the dog, people who did not carefully consider before they took the pup. The problem begins with the breeder, whether cross bred, purebred, or designer mutt. If the breeder does not qualify the homes for the pups, and ensure that the home is the lifetime hnme and just sells to anyone, there will be dogs in the pound. Bit off topic!! All dogs deserve good homes. Anyone breeding them should be aware of that. They should not be bred unless that can be guaranteed. If unspeyed bitches become pregnant, and the owners do not think they can find all the pups homes, the bitch should be speyed early in the pregnancy. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen. It's all probably not about cross bred and purebred, it's about responsible breeding, no matter what it is, and responsible homing to well chosen lifetime homes. If you can't do that, don't breed. JMHO

Sounds like a reaction to the vaccine. It would be a good idea to phone your vet, and tell him about the symptoms, and get his advice.

Erny Sorry, I HAVE to do this. 60% of people who contract lung cancer to not smoke 40% of people who contract lung cancer do smoke. World Health Organisation says there are no statistics to show that passive smoking causes problems Another crock of.

lilli Which is just emotional hyperbole. Which is another word for crap Isiss, you will have to find the real stats/ I'll have a look for you, bur they are not the same ones on some websites. there is no oversupply of dogs. See earlier what Harry Corbett posted also.

Parri colour, harlequin and phantom poodles do exist. They may not be registered in Australia. Only solid colours are allowed. The AKC did not accept any colour other than solid either .... however, the AKC/UKC rules regarding colour may have changed since I looked. You could perhaps check the poodle standard on the AKC website.

That sucks big time. There is no reason for such laws, as Frankston council have themselves published that THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM with stray dogs. Also sounds like a stitch up job with Dogs Vic who will get a lot more membrships out of it. Make rotten legislation which is not necessary. I hope people can see the big picture here --- council makes it impossible to own an entire dog, even though there is not a dog problem. And other councils do the same. No one will be able to breed dogs except puppy farms way out in red neck country. I believe this legislation would deter some people from wanting to breed registered dogs. And there is no dog over population. If we continue to allow councils to bring in such legislation, in 10 years there will be no dogs full stop. And I certainly wouldn't sell a pet pup to anyone in Frankston council area. It would have to be desexed by 12 weeks, and when it developed problems later via early desexing, it would be the breeder's fault, including if it grew too tall, didn't get a coat, and next thing the breeder would be in court for producing a dog with "hereditary flows". We have already permitted bad laws to flourish, based on flawed and untrue statistics. Councils and governments are now adding more bad laws. Sigh You people wont have any dogs at all if you don't stand up to this type of legislation.

Be aware that each state Canine Control (the registering body) has different regulations. In some states, white boxers may not be registered at all, so depending on where your white boxer came from, it may or may not be registered. My experience is that white pups are not produced in all litters - some litters have white pups, some not. It depends on the genetics of the parents, and to some extent, how flashy the parents are.

Shel And unfortunately, councils and governments are now givng credence to groups which wish to mandate personal beliefs into law, which will have the ultimate consequences you have stated. Harry Corbett My apologies. I received advice from cousel with regard to the implementation of statewide mandatory desexing laws in Qld, which related to "property". I should not have assumed Vic legislation was similar :D Absolutely, and if we want to continue to keep dogs and cats, we do all need to pull together. There are too many diverse laws which disadvantage pet owners, and more seem to appear every week. If councils enforced the laws they already have, things would improve markedly. Oh, Harry Corbett, you'll get no argument from me either!!

Angelsun, there is a difference between randy and ratbag. A ratbag chases, harrasses and annoys the bitches constantly. A young dog may be a ratbag to begin with, but after a few carefully chosen words from the bitches, he becomes randy. Mine run together most of the time. Bitches which are not to be mated are locked up when they are in season. A good stud dog watches the bitch during the first part of her season, serves her - probably every day - during her fertile period, and keep an eye on her once that is over and the season is ending. If both are in prime health - and why would you be mating them if they were not? - a mating every day is acceptable all round and does not make them lose condition. If the bitches are not happy, I lock them away. This system works for me with non aggressive dogs, and because the dogs are used to running togehter, and the boy knows the girl is for him, we have civilised romance. If necessary, I help virgin dogs, and I help with first matings. The stud dogs, imho, learn better if nature and instinct are allowed to predominate, and we have no untoward behaviour. Nor do we have stud dogs barking their heads off and generally carrying on if the girl is in season, and not being mated, or in season, and going to the other dog. I have an excellent mating percentage, and a 100% whelping percentage. The dogs are happy and content, and none of the behaviours cause problems. I do ensure though, that the dog will allow me to help if necessary, but it is rarely necessary.

There are dog fight rings "in your area" although not where you live, and it is quite possible that the dogs were stolen for bait/fighting. The RSPCA is aware of these rings, but probably not aware of the actual location. I would tell the ACO of the council area where your sister lives. Also lodge a formal complaint about the theft to the police. If they will not let you make a formal complaint, tell them they most. Sometimes, they do not like to do reports on stolen dogs, because of the paperwork involved, and they often believe the dogs simply went walkabout. Also advise the RSPCA. Kate Summer, you should report those dogs to the council ACO. It may not be anything, but it may be. It's very sad that this happens, and we all need to keep our dogs secure. Wild at heart I know someone in the town closest to you who lost their Cavalier - someone pulled palings off the 2m fence around the back yard to get the dog.

Sorry to hear about your dog. Dogs do pine and fret when their friends pass. If you want another dog, I'd get one. He will be really pleased to have a friend. It's difficult to advise you without knowing your dog, but if he likes the rabbit, and wants it's company, I would think about a pup. A pup is not threatening to an adult dog, and he would not be worried about it either attacking him, or taking over from him - he would probably see it as a non threatening friend. I would also consider a girl. I also think an older pup - a few months old would be quite good. If you can't find a pup, and it can be difficult, perhaps an older GIRL with a friendly manner, who would be happy to be 2nd dog. A girl would be less likely to challenge him, and being a boy, he is more likely to get on with a girl. He and she will form a pack. However, if you get an older dog, ask if you can return it if he is not happy with the new addition. I think he will be though. He is missing company. I very rarely home my dogs, but some friends lost their 16 year old dog, and the 14 year old was fretting. The 14 year old was a lot smaller than the 16 year old, and had been bossed around quite badly, and her owners thought she'd be pleased to be the boss at last, but she wasn't. One of my girls, 5 years old, went to join this family. She is very gentle, and would not boss the older dog around. My girl has settled in well, she and the older dog love each other, and the older dog is as happy as can be with her new friend. Luckily, my girl, with lots of love and attention, settled in well, and everyone is happy.

No offence but I do think you are looking at this through your personal point of view, you are probably a responsible dog owner, but you need to understand that puts you in the minority. There is a lot of bad stuff happening to dogs out there and I think anything that can be done to stop these people having dogs is a good thing. I am not quite sure what you mean by "bad stuff". Is desexing likely to stop the bad stuff happening? If by bad stuff,you mean cruelty, the POCTA act has many clauses under which people can be prosecuted for all kinds of cruelty. Surely that would be a better method of enforcing legislation, rather than neutering all dogs, and having mandatory desexing laws? Enforcing current legislation about having dogs contained in yards seems a more viable one to me. This erodes freedom still more, and I cannot see how mandatory desexing will curb cruelty? Perhaps I don't understand what "bad stuff" is. In Victoria, you may not walk your dog on the collar of your choice, you may not do quite a lot of things which I (and most other people) would consider reasonable. I believe that in some council areas, leads must be 1m long, which certainly does not suit all dogs or owners, and is certainly not best practice for all. Each of these laws erodes someone's lifestyle with dogs. There is a lot of proof that early desexing is not in the animals' best interests, yet this council (and others) are making decisions which will impact on the dog for whole of life.

Leopuppy Where? Nannas Purebreds often cost less than designer mongrels and pet shop pups. They do cost more than genuine mongels, and so they should. So, you are saying there are 104cm high rottweilers? Where is this, please, I have never seen any that big. Really, and are they registering the pups with their CC? What faults are they crossing to fix? And where are these people? What breeds are we talking about here? Longcoat But, that's the going rate - or something under it for some breeds. And as I mentioned before, designer mongrels and pet shop pups cost more. Someone quoted $2000 earlier for GR mongrels. That's a lot. That's one of the reasons I don't oppose the true mongrel - gives people a cheaper dog. And when animal welfare gets going on us, it will cost twice that, because there will bo so many tests and regulations, and we'll have to take the bitch to the vet every 10 minutes, and that will mount up.

NO. Check 84M of the Domestic Animal Act 1994. Is over-ridden by property etc laws. There is a lot of evidence out there against early age desexing.

The short answer is I can't see much point. There's a purebred which is close enough to a designer mutt for someone to be happy. I don't much care what people breed, what I object to now with designer mutts is the untrue hyperbole, lack of care in homing the pups, and the way the dogs are kept. But as far as them being bred - I care about as much as I care about beagles or dalmatons being bred. Don't even think about it. Objectively, crossing dissimilar breeds generally leads to one type of disaster or another --- wry or parrot mouths, unsuitable tooth placement, two coat types on one dog, body and drive of one type, and legs and brain of another. All too problematical, and should only be attempted by those with a wonderful store of knowledge. Unfortunately, the people who seem to embark on this have no knowledge. That's why they think it is great. I think we, and our dogs, would be very much better if there were purebreds, and the sort of crossbreds there used to be - from accidental litters, very cheap, not planned, and quite often delightful little dogs with no ancestry, and if they had a health problem, so what, they were free, right? And they tended to be true crossbreds, with no pretensions to a purebred parent. And people who took them knew the mother, or the father, and the dog itself was a bit of a lucky dip, and everyone accepted that. The main reason why the abbadabbadoo registry (for designer mutts) never gets off the ground, despite years of trying, is that almost all the people who breed designer mutts don't want a registry, or regulations, they want to do whatever they like, without any rules or regulations. Total regulation and legalisation of pedigree dogs will see breeders leave in droves - even thought most of us are used to regulations, and most are happy to abide by the COE - and probably go further than the code, but each of us likes to do our breeding our way, even though that is within a framework approved by the CCs. When we stuff up, we have only ourselves to blame, and we don't do it again, and we tell our friends not to do it either. Once the government wants to regulate and tell breeders what to do, they will say "Two to the Valley" and go. To try to regulate or legislate the previously unregulated will, I think, be impossible. Added is the fact that a lot of designer mutt breeders would not pass a council inspection. I also think if the following breeds were available and promoted, people would choose them as an alternative to oddles. Poodles with a bad ass haircut Bichon Havanese Chinese Crested (Powderpuff) Spinone Lagotto Portugese Water Dog Irish Water Spaniel (and probably another 6 breeds I've forgotten ) Look at them, there is an oodle which looks like every one of the dogs above. But, then we get back to the problem of there not being sufficient, and the fact that registered breeders are going to interrogate the buyers, and not sell over the internet by credit card, so some buyers would be disappointed.

Thanks for that, menacebear. Can you keep an entire dog, which is not registered with VicDogs, and register it with the council? Or do they insist on you desexing it before it can be council registered? I understand that if dogs are impounded, council will not relase them unless they are desexed prior to release. This only applies to dogs which are not registered with the council, yes? Edited to answer your earlier post - I do think dogs which are not being used for breeding should be desexed, but I do not think it should be mandatory. There are plenty of undesexed dogs out there doing no harm to anyone, and provided someone has the will and the facilities to keep an entire dog, it should be their choice. Yes - I know how everyone feels about desexing. I do too, but I don't think this should be forced. Education is good, cheaper registration is also good. And draconian measures like this simply drive more people underground, so they have dogs which never go to training, are never socialised, blah blah, and probably that is much worse than not desexing them. There are other problems too, but I don't have time now. We have too many regulations, and too many problematic regulations, so people simply avoid them. Government doesn't seem to understand that. Yet there are numerous studies showin the problems which arise, not just with legislation of this type, but general legislation.

Just SO wrong to be selling them in a pet shop. Some breeds should never be sold in pet shops, chows, maremmas, and Am bulldogs. What could the breeder have been thinking. Not much apparently!! If they are even purebred. Was it Pets Purgatory? I really like them (they are like big boxers, of course I like them!!), but they aren't for everyone, and they need to be carefully bred from selected lines. Great dogs.

menacebear Surely it is only a regulation, I don't think state governments can enact that type of law. As far as I am aware, it is not legal I suppose, as with the councils seizing dogs suspected of being put bulls which aren't, the council will probably need a wake up call in court, to the tune of a few hundred grand for costs etc. when someone calls them on it and they lose. Is it only the unregistered dogs the council neuters? If the dog is entire and registered, what happens if it is roaming and goes to the pound?

It's illegal. Apart from the potential danger to the dog during the operation, and the legalities if the dog dies. voloclydes - all dogs and cats from what I can find out.

Angelsun If the dog is used to running with the bitch, or all bitches (one at a time in season) he usually will not attempt multiple ties unless he is a ratbag, and why would you use a rat bag in a breeding program? A dog which is not used to running with them may go a bit silly at first, but once he learns that he will getr the girl, he settles down. Some of mine do run together, never had a problem, or with the dogs chasing and harrassing the birches either, but it depends on the breed and dog a lot. I don't think using a dog over 8 bitches a week for 4 months would even go near "best practice". WTF did the stupid owners expect?

You WATCH? Pervert Natural, and yeah, I watch too, but only so I know for my records

Is anyone who lives in Frankston council area aware that if owned dogs and cats are impounded, they will not be released until they are desexed? It is illegal.

I think the earlier changes to CC regulations were driven by decisions made by the committee with good intentions, later I think it was about money, and appeasing AR and public perception. In Q, for as long as I can remember ALL surviving pups had to be registered. And there was only Main until some years ago. Didn't bother me much. When I was a kid, our family decided we would have dacshunds. My mother wanted to show. I wanted a pup too. We approached one of the top breeders of the day - her lines are in most pedigrees today, and older breeders know her. She sold me a bitch pup, knowing I was going to breed. the dog was a pet (they all were). Unfortunately, I picked the wrong pup, not the show pup the breeder had picked (they all looked the same to me!!), and I wouldn't give her back, so no shows for me. We did obedience instead. She had 3 litters, all under my own prefix (I was 9, 10, 11 or thereabouts), although the breeder and my mother picked the stud dog (big time champion), and my mother did the whelping and raising with me helping. I bred 3 litters, 3 champions. Imagine what opinion would be if a breeder came here and said they had sold a bitch to a little kid on main for breeding? bryan_mannix I suppose, on the plus side, the dog is probably a lot better than he would have bought from a pf or pet shop. It makes me cringe. That's our new culture, that's the party line, but it must be hateful for people who are buying a pet and paying a lot, to listen to that. How insulting. Terrible PR skills, but I suppose at least the breeder doesn't have to worry the buyer will report back to the canine control that the "breeder said she was breeding pets". Our CC now sends puppy buyers a form so they can report back on us. Dog knows what mine say!! I might have to resort to putting Tofranil in the cups of tea!! And the converse is there are quite a few very successful exhibitors who do not sell show dogs. They sell the pups from their grand champion show dogs as pets. Some do it because they don't want to be beaten, but I know one who thinks people should have nice pets, and they will probably get better homes. One of my pups won the royal this year. Her litter brother was just as good, he is a pet. The previous litter had 2 boys which were as good as her, they are pets. The others from the litters who are not as good looking are still pretty good looking, and are admired by all. I tell people the truth, that this is a lovely pup, maybe not quite show quality, because of (a) and (b) but he will grow up to be very good looking. Or maybe he is show quality, I tell them that too. A vet once told one of my puppy owners that he wouldn't neuter the dog, which was a pet - he was far too good looking. The buyer phoned me up to see what he should do. That made me as proud as any royal win. And the bottom line for me is that dogs are pets. And if I can't breed a better, healthier, easier to manage pet than some sucky puppy farm, or some suckier designer mutt producer, I'll slash my wrists with the thinning scissors. I just love it when one of my owners says "everyone at the dog park thinks he is gorgeous": "my vet said these are two of the nicest, healthiest dogs he's seen": "my pup was so easy to train, he didn't mess in the house after a week": "molly just died of old age, do you have a puppy, we wouldn't buy from anyone else": "she's so wonderful with the baby": "Tammi is second level obedience now": and the biggie "we all really love him". And I try to keep doing it better. And the occasional little person who was hiding behind the door when the good looks were being handed out still has a lovely temperment, and good health, and because he is such a charmer, and only goes to the vet for his shots, and was housetrained in 2 hours, the owners don't care that he isn't ever going to be a showring star - and most of them don't even notice!! (Send me the account for the advertising, Troy )

Oh, so cruel, poor dog. No wonder he is so upset, that green does NOTHING for his complexion. How could you? 20 penalty points or 4 chicken necks Oh well, it may be cruel but it sure is cute as ....