DogsAndTheMob

This is what I would do in your situation… Join the Border Collie club of NSW and volunteer to help out at their events, Spend several months going to (and maybe volunteering at) Obedience trials, Agility trials and conformation shows. Look at the Border Collies there to see what you like and don’t like about the breed and individual dogs. Look at the event catalogues to find who bred the dogs you like. Talk to Border Collie owners at these events (if/when they are willing to talk with you) to find out their experiences with their dogs. Be polite and patient. Many people enjoy talking about their dogs but they will be at these events to compete, not to talk to you. Remember that their dogs were not born trained. Go to local dog training clubs and talk (politely and patiently) to owners there. This will give you an opportunity to meet dogs in training and pet owners with their border collies. When you’ve identified breeders whose dogs you like and who perform the required health testing, consider getting an adult dog. No one can adequately assess the suitability of a 8 week old puppy for a specialist role such as assistance dog work. Breeders sometimes need to rehome lovely adult dogs; they will have a much better idea whether these dogs are suitable for assistance dog training.

I think the video included in this news item shows two different dogs. The dog shown in most of the images is a short-backed dog with white toes. The dog seen in a CCV image being held by a woman after it killed her cat, Penelope, is a long-backed dog without white toes.

I hope the council is completely transparent in providing information on how many dogs were symptomatic, how many dogs were titre-tested to check their immunity and how many were euthanised for convenience, cost-saving or “just in case”. Although I accept that difficult decisions sometimes need to be made, I find it difficult to believe that none of the 21 dogs had protection from previous vaccination.

This article says that the company is also working on an anti-aging drug for dogs “of most sizes”. https://www.dvm360.com/view/a-clinical-trial-is-launched-for-a-novel-drug-that-could-extend-healthy-lifespan-in-senior-dogs

That’s a very pertinent observation! I skimmed the paper and had some concerns but didn’t consider that. Data for dogs whose vegan diets were discontinued due to health problems would have been excluded whereas the data for dogs who had a change in diet within the other very broad dietary categories would have been included. I noticed that the measure on veterinarian’s opinion is based on the dog’s “guardian’s” reports of their vet’s opinion rather than direct interviews with veterinarians. I wouldn’t consider that scientifically convincing. The data on number of veterinary visits is split into two categories - one visit vs two or more visits - for analysis. Splitting it into such broad categories is not good science because it’s often done when a more detailed analysis doesn’t produce statistical significance. Basically, the analysts can look at the various splits (1 vs more than one; 2 vs more than 2 etc) and find the split that gives the result they want.

I agree. Owners of all dogs need to take responsibility and I have no respect for anyone who lets their dog - big or little - annoy other people and dogs. However, as a lifelong owner of large dogs, I’m aware that they could easily cause severe injury, even by a friendly and overly exuberant greeting. I’d rather have a neighbour with a roaming dog that weighed 5 kg than one with a roaming dog that weighed 30kg.

As an aside, if you are thinking of getting two dogs, be aware that a lot of experienced dog people say that male dogs often make a lot of noise when fighting, but female dogs may do a lot more damage. My very limited experience of dog fights supports this.

That’s been my experience too. My mother and I raised littermates in the same home - twice. All four earned high level Obedience titles, including one Obedience Championship. I suspect that the littermate bond wouldn’t be a problem in a lot of pet homes. Busy families might be happy to have dogs that can entertain themselves by playing together.

This is from memory because I can’t find the original info…Back in the 60s and 70s, guide dog organisations sometimes placed two puppies from the same litter into the same home to be raised. When the puppies came back for evaluation and training, they found that those puppies had a higher failure rate than puppies that had been placed in homes separately from all their littermates. They hypothesised that puppies placed with littermates became so bonded to their littermates that they didn’t relate well to people.

I agree. I wonder if the council’s ranger was worried by the risks involved in catching three large dogs with a severe bite history, and couldn’t easily call on anyone else to assist. In fact, it might have gone against the council’s occupational health and safety guidelines. That’s why I think dangerous dog management might be better managed by the police. They have training and practice in reacting to dangerous situations and at least some of them are experienced in handling big, powerful dogs.

I agree, although I wonder whether the control of dangerous and potentially dangerous dogs should fall under the aegis of police rather than council. In the news story I’ve linked, a council representative is quoted as saying that they couldn’t impound the dogs without a court order, even after the attack on an elderly woman. I see a parallel to people carrying knives… police routinely confiscate knives without court orders. Another parallel… Service NSW is responsible for routine administration such as car registration and drivers’ licenses but the police can impound cars with dangerous defects. (I’m not sure about the division of responsibilities in other states). In my opinion, three large, free-roaming dogs are as dangerous as a car with bald tires. https://7news.com.au/news/woman-71-seriously-injured-in-horrific-dog-attack-in-sunbury-victoria--c-15884170

Let’s not be too quick to cast blame. It’s not possible to be sure whether Luna’s pickiness was exacerbated by the OP’s management or caused by a health problem. I’ve raised 10 puppies over 50 years without problems and, as the daughter of ANKC breeders, assisted with the raising of many others. Two years ago I had a puppy who came to me as the runt of the litter. Like Luna, she was hungry but reluctant to eat. Sometimes she’d eat a little of a food but she’d always refuse to eat it again. She seemed a bit frail to me but I wasn’t familiar with the breed and thought maybe I was imagining the frailty. Otherwise, she was energetic and looked healthy enough to pass two vet checks… until she wasn’t. After a rapid decline, she was rushed to a vet and then to SASH, where she was diagnosed with severe congenital kidney failure. It seems likely that the protein in food made her feel sick, which prompted her to refuse to eat that food again. My mother - a very experienced breeder - had a similar experience with a happier outcome. A very well bred border collie puppy she purchased wouldn’t eat and the vet could find nothing wrong. She coaxed it to eat by flicking teaspoons of food to stimulate the predatory chase-grab-swallow sequence. After several days, it passed blood and a sharp piece of bone. The puppy’s breeder blamed a friend who had assisted with raising the litter. To the OP, I’m so sorry to hear about your experiences. I hope Luna is healthy and happily living in a new home and I hope you are able to purchase or adopt a delightful puppy who will bring you many years of joy. I’m not sure what you can do to recoup your money. Even if you won a case in a small claims tribunal, you might not be able to force the breeder to pay up. You might end up paying more and enduring considerable stress with no good outcome.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8vdrzr9mq1o ”In an explosive report made public by lawmakers, the organisation's former chief veterinarian has described the industry as a hotbed of “exploitation and suffering”, claiming that dogs are being raced at “barbaric” rates, euthanised without cause, or left to rot in metal cages when they can no longer compete.”

Recently, I had an opportunity to observe “behind the lines” of a corporate vet clinic for a few hours. I was appalled by the inefficiency. The non-clinical to clinical ratio in the clinic was 3 to 2 (practice manager and two reception staff vs a nurse and a vet), which doesn’t even factor in the number of head-office staff. Standard appointment times were 30 minutes, which seems unnecessary long for vaccinations and minor lumps, bumps and scrapes. The practice manager was annoyed because an owner and her two dogs had been booked into one 30 minute slot, instead of separate slots for each dog. The reception staff chatted while calls went unanswered. When they did answer, they were booked out until the middle of the next week, so even their own clients were told to look elsewhere for urgent care (eg a large dog with suspected bloat). There were no appointment slots available for clients who had missed their last annual vaccination. The waiting room was empty most of the morning. I remember when that practice was vet-run and busy all the time, both with patients and with people coming in to buy pet care products. The corporate practice had a very small range of over the counter medications and almost no other pet care products. It seems like a catch-22, exacerbated by inefficiency. I can’t see how 30 minute appointments and a high non-clinical to clinical staff ratio can support reasonable vet salaries and I wonder why any vet would stay in an industry that’s highly stressful and doesn’t pay salaries comparable to those of other people who have studied for five or more years and accrued large HECS debts. It’s not a profitable business model for the corporations either. I was curious enough to look up an investment website that compared corporate vet business with other corporate investments such as accountants and lawyers. The returns on spending for veterinary businesses was much lower than those for other businesses.

I agree that the problems of Littermate Syndrome are exaggerated. I’ve even seen it used to castigate people who raise two unrelated puppies of different ages together. Back in the 1970s, my mother and I raised and trained littermate German Shepherd brothers and competed successfully with them in Obedience. (My mother’s dog became an Obedience Champion.) Episode 2 of Puppy Culture potluck is an interesting discussion of Littermate Syndrome.