Salukifan

Here's the context in which my comment was made: How about I make it clearer for you. The breed function of individual dogs of individual breeds matters. Dogs of individual breeds developed for particular functions have particular characteristics and to suggest that none of this matters in determining characteristics such as levels of dog aggression is incorrect. Some dog breeds are far more likely to be dog aggressive than others. That increases the chances that individual dogs of such breeds are more likely to be dog aggressive. Still want to argue about my statement? Lets talk about "pet" breeding shall we? How about we look at Labradors. If breeders no longer give a toss about retrieving ability, do they no longer care about soft mouths, about people focus and biddability, about low levels of dog and human aggression? All of those are important in a retrieving dog and tested for. But hey, pets don't have to retrieve so hard mouths, lack of biddability and dog and human aggression are all OK now. And you know what? There are "pet breeders" producing Labradors with those characteristics - and selling them as pets. How about timid bull breeds - but still with low triggers to react with aggression and damn hard bites. Why would a pet need courage and tenacity? Yep those "pets" are out there too. Don't tell me original function doesn't matter in a pet. Of course it does. Because the characteristics that made the dog function are usually what buyers are after. Don't even get me started on some of the disastrous combinations of breed characteristics that intentional crossbreeder "pet" breeders create in some of their "pet" crosses.

Well, instead of just making dismissive comments about other people's posts, you might actually want to share a few ideas of your own. That's assuming the intellectual basis for your argument moves beyond simply disagreeing with someone for the hell of it.

Ask your dog's breeder. My general rule of thumb is no onlead exercise (other than for training) before 6 months, controlled offlead exercise and no being pounded by larger dogs down the dog park. Only limited retrieving and no repetitive ball chasing. After six months, limited onlead exercise and no really long walks before 12 months of age. Your pup will be assisted by being kept thin enough for most people to tell you he's skinny (yes, Labradors can have some rib showing) and for others to question whether or not he's purebred. :laugh:

Then you'd be wrong. <br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> How helpful. How about you explain how dog aggression, human aggression low bite inhibition, a low bite threshold, territorial drives or prey drive assist a canine in any way to be a good pet.

I'd say most generic pets would have zero HA and DA tendencies, very high bite thresholds and bite inhibition and be totally unterritorial and friendly to all. No prey drive either. Is that what your dog's breeder was aiming for?? A Cavalier King Charles Spaniel in a different suit?

Yes that's correct, but that's not what you said before. Most dogs are bred as pets; the heritage of the breed is another story. My dog was bred as a pet from pet lines, end of discussion [ So exactly how was your dog bred to be a pet? What characteristics did the breeder select? And more importantly, how did the breeder change the breed characteristics to make him function better as a pet? Has his his bite threshold and inhibition been altered from his breed of origin?

If you are seeking advice to choose a BYB over an ANKC registered breeder you are asking the wrong forum. Oops too late - two babies now. And of course both breeders knew and agreed to that? I doubt it. How do you think a baby pom is going to cope being monstered by a pup more than twice its size????

Very difficult to socialize and obediece train a banned breed also. It just compounds the problem.

It's a matter for individual dogs, not breeds. Most dogs aren't bred for any function other than that of a pet. Get real Lo Pan. Many pet dogs are of breeds bred to perform a function.. and a lot of issues you see in pet dogs stem from their owner's lack of understanding of that. Over the development of such breeds we altered and selected for characteristics like levels of biddibility and independence, reactivity, levels of bite inhibition and bite thresholds. Drives were also shaped and selected for. And many of those features remain present in our pet dogs. The whole point of creating breeds is increasing the likelihood of certain characteristics in the dogs and decreasing the range of characteristics as well - a more predictable outcome is the result. Of course some breeders don't give a toss about all of that. And that can also create issues. A Labrador with a low bite threshold, very mouthy and a hard bite...bloody wonderful. Any gundog that aggresses towards other dogs? Dogs of fighting ancestry that are HA? All poor breeding. The fact that many pet owners have no freakin idea about any of this and think that the only difference between breeds is how they look is, in my opinion, a significant contributor to behavioural issues their pets experience. How breeds view the world and react to stimuli is part genetic. When you choose a breed you should be aware of the function it originally performed because you're going to be dealing with behaviour driven by that... and you best be prepared for it. If you want the world to view your dog as a fluffy marshmallow then don't get a bull breed. They're generally courageous, tenancious and stoic. They may not react quickly to other dogs behaving like pork chops but chances are if provoked they will finish, ice and put the sprinkles on the other dog.. becasue that's what they were bred for. We socialise dogs to lower levels of reactivity and instill appropriate behaviour but if push comes to shove I'd expect most bull breeds will give a good account of themselves. When such dogs end up in the hands of those who encourage aggression and fail to socialise and control... well that is how we ended up with the crock that is BSL. Yep, any dog can be aggressive but what any dog can do in terms of damage is not the same... and denying it does't change the result. So, the more powerful your dog, the more onus on owners to protect the breed and keep it out of the media... and sadly there's a whole class of owners attracted to such dogs as image enhancers. And when poorly bred and crossbred to produce a mix of drives, levels of reactivity and bite control and then let loose on the community... well this thread is what you end up with.

Padraic: Someone got a beef with CDC perhaps? It's not a cult you know....

I agree especially about boxers. Mine gets a bad response from many dogs out in public (particularly BC's) He even play-bowed a loose dog yesterday who initially rushed us and pinned my dog (owner was weeding front yard and not watching his dog). The Boxer/BC dynamic is one known to quite a few owners of those breeds. GSDs and Poodles don't tend to be a good mix either. GSDs and Spitzs can also be a challenging mix.

in my opinion, dogs recognise body language that is like theirs and will gravitate to dogs whose body language mirrors their own. Conformation affects body language. Some purebred dogs are definitely 'breed snobs' and prefer the company of their own breed. My guess is that's part genetics and part socialisation... after all they spend their first weeks with dogs that look like them. I agree with those posters who say that their dogs have formed a dislike for breeds based on experience. I also think some dogs will not like breeds they can't 'read' well. Boxers tend to be a case in point - a lot of dogs just don't know what to do with a dog they think is staring at them when that's just how they look.

ANKC registered Steve? Puppy farmers have always abused purebred dogs.

Sounds like smegma. Its more common name is "dick cheese". :laugh: If worried see you vet but unless there is evidence of more than a drop being produced, I'd not bother.

Perhaps not but the odds are that a fighting bred dog is more likely to be dog aggressive than many others. And IF they decide to fight, the results are often serious. There would have been a reason for the play to turn nasty - its just that none of the dog owners probably noticed escalating levels of arousal and the interactions starting to change. In my (admittedly limited) experience with dog parks, many users have low levels of knowledge of both dog body language and behaviour. I will remove my dogs from the path of almost any oncoming dog. I don't take chances.

I think you will find most dogs operating in a pack structure are just as likely to attack as a pack of bull breed dogs. Again it has nothing to do with breed. You're not seriously suggesting that all dog breeds have the same inate levels of dog aggression are you? Some dogs, bred to live and hunt in packs have been selectively bred for centuries for low levels of dog aggression. SSM's beagles are one such example. The function a dog was bred to perform MATTERS. The fact that some dog owner have no freakin idea of what drives their dogs have and what they are capable of is terrifying. And when you buy your pup from a breeder who know sweet FA about what they are breeding, it compounds the problem.

Everyone is saying mauled, cop says minor injuries... Because all cops are qualified vets ya know... Until you get a dog to the vet and shaved down how the hell would you know HOW injured it was. And here's the thing.. the OTHER dog is dead!! Seriously, if it wasn't for the name of the breed in the media headlines, would people be trying to play this thing down? 4 offlead out of control dogs pin one dog, and chase a guide dog worth $$$$ and the eyes for a person onto a road and people say "its not serious?". Owners grab dogs and do a runner and that's no biggie? I don't give a toss what breeds were involved. Some people are seriously out of line with this one. Have you people ever HAD a dog attacked? Minor injuries or not, its effing terrifying. 4 dogs going yours.... it is NOT a minor event for that person.

Not an F1 cross IMO. Name the four most common breeds of dog in your area and he/she's probably a mix of them all.. and then some.

Nope. Have got a Grand Basset Griffon Vendeen and 2 Harriers though :)

Got mine today. Goldens: 9 both days.

Oh there will be reasons alright. Three dogs equals a pack. Some dogs will do things in a pack they'd never do alone. Could have been a territorial response, could have been a predatory one. But it certainly doesn't sound like these were well socialised dogs does it? I'd hazard a guess as to age, sexual entirity and the use of these dogs... such attacks aren't exactly unpredictable.

Sounds a bit pancreatic to me - something to watch. I'd be crating him in another room and when they ask where he is tell them why.

How do you know???? :eek: It is part of DOL membership that one is NOT to even go inside a PP. One is allowed to yell abuse from outside of course. I couldn't give a toss what popular DOLthink says I can and cannot do. I've been into PP stores albeit not recently. I just don't buy anything there. That's for two reasons: * I ain't going to support a business that supports puppy farms * They sell largely shit products ( as do Petbarn and Petstock). Thank God for show vans and the internet. In case anyone was considering buying them, Gripsoft slickers suck. I bought one before I knew better.

Handwritten cardboard sign attached to a light pole saying 'staffie pups 4 sale'? That's "English Staffie" please.

No. Don't think the sale of any animal in a pet shop is a good thing. I was just pointing out the rules :) (which I didn't make and which I don't agree with) But I would still rather all the PP staff got to keep their jobs and just sold pet food etc. Maybe if they stocked decent quality products in a wider range and had staff who actually knew a damn thing about dogs, they'd still be in business. Instead they've applied "lowest common denominator quality" and profit maximisation principles to their stores and it shows. Hardly the place you'd head if you wanted an informed product recommendation at a decent price. And people are voting with their feet, mostly in favour of internet purchasing I reckon. You can't even buy any decent quality brush in their stores. It's all shit.