Salukifan

How's this for a radical idea: If you own a dog of any size that can't deal with other dogs' behaviour without aggression, DON'T HAVE IT IN A PUBLIC, OFFLEAD DOG AREA. There, that wasn't that hard was it? Go to a public dog area, expect clueless owners and dogs not under full control. If that's an issue for you or your dog, simply don't have your dog there.

Do this using pounds and inches. Poodles are also ectomorphs. :)

I don't think they are arguments for EARLY desexing at all, if you're talking about desexing before age 6 months. I don't think there is any good argument for baby puppy desexing other than ensuring sterility but there are other ways to achieve that.

I suspect an unhappy IW would simply dig the heels in and stop trying. Lets hope the instructors don't tell the OP that her dog is lazy or blowing her off.

ive looked at rally o but the closest club is half an hour agility is across the road if the dog dosnt like it will will change and expand but to see if he likes it he has to do it first Start with obedience. You're going to have to do something while the dog matures.

I think dogs have more fun doing things they are structually suited for. It can be profoundly stressful for a dog to be over faced. It can also break them. An IW at two is still not physically mature. You keep posting video of dogs doing agility in the USA. The first dog was a Deerhound. The Saint is doing a jump height far lower than it would be asked to do here. It's your choice. But if agiity is where your heart lies, be prepared for a dog that will NOT enjoy it because it will not have any apptitude for the sport due to its size. And if that happens, I hope for your dog's sake that you stop. And as for the 4WD and the ramp... ask Keshwar or Kinsella about getting a dog too sick to walk into a vehicle.

How many IWs do? And how long do they last? If that's what you want to do, look at Deerhounds

The dog trained at my club. He was never asked to jump high. He had a height dog in his team to keep the jump heights down. I have seen a Newf try to fit through tunnels and a tyre. It wasn't pretty. If I wanted to do something "for fun" with an IW, I'd be doing RallyO, not asking a dog to do things that it physically will struggle to do. The dog walk? Nope - the dog will be wider than the plank. Ditto see saw. A Frame - huge ask. Jumping? Provided that it never has to do competition height? Maybe. Frankly I don't see the point. Soundness is a big enough issue in giant dogs. Why push it? How many heavy draft horse breeds do you see doing pony club games and show jumping? One more thing to consider with an IW is size. Few cars can carry one in comfort. If the dog is unwell, it takes serious muscle to get it to a vet. And it's not a dog that can be safely walked by a child. EVER

I wouldn't even attempt agility with an IW. They are simply not built for the sport and the equipment is not built for a dog of that size. If a reliable recall is a must have, I'd suggest a sighthound will be unsuitable.

Have you tried chicken liver/giblets? My fussy ones loved those! Otherwise, cod liver oil every other month. Don't feed it constantly.

I have only just seen this. I'm so sorry Charlie has gone. He couldn't have wished for more loving and dedicated owners. Thank you for making us part of his journey. Run free Charlie.

Mind like steel trap Patience of saint Voice like foghorn Hide like rhino. :)

My phone so i can text any good results to friends and Dodger's "nanna" (breeder of his sire and my Whippety BFF). It tends to be how I find out who's got what in the other rings too.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, this group has most likely thought about a lot of what is being asked here, worst case scenarios, the what ifs and maybes, etc. As I'd imagine most rescue groups do (yes, I know not all do, sadly). What's in the media isn't always necessarily going to be the full extent of what they're about and how they go about it. From reading their website, it's already much better than I had anticipated. Especially the fact that they do repeat on there that foxes are wild animals, not domesticated but tamed, etc etc. I would imagine that they screen extremely thoroughly and drill this into heads as much as possible too. I hope you're right. I just worry about a bunch of starry eyed fox fans biting off more than they can chew in terms of rescue, rehoming and ownership. Let's hope not.

Yes. I'm sure the newspaper had them write its own headline. :) You might be amazed at just how often press releases are printed verbatim. :) But point taken. I still think the idea is fraught with issues for both foxes and the community. I note the website discusses leash walking your fox. I think that would place the animals at serious risk of aggression from quite a few dogs.

And where exactly did you pull that from? I pulled it from the commonly accepted definitions for the word marketing and the word pet. The website is very similar to websites operated by canine rescues in their efforts to place dogs in homes. They use many of the familial terms reserved for pets and family members, such as adopt, foster carer, special needs, forever home. The newspaper article in the first post of this thread talks about the fox rescue encouraging people to "open homes and hearts to a different kind of furry friend". If that's not pet language then I don't know what is. We need only look overseas to learn that it doesn't matter how long you keep a wild animal in your back yard. It's still wild. And, in certain circumstances, its a risk to your family.

Sorry Mita but I fail to see how a rescue program from which not one single fox will be bred will inform the researchers of anything.

How do you think the research was able to pick up on the potential for this trait in undomesticated foxes in the first instance? Those that showed the behavioral signs of potential for tameness.... were screened into the program to take them close to humans. Not all could be included. . Same with any species ... genetic expression varies within it. And that likely phenotype for tameness in foxes, had not been triggered by their environment. Survival in the wild depended on other traits. But, as the science suggests, the phenotype was there, within the species, with some having more potential than others. Which is why I've also added caveats about a fox rescue program ... by stressing that selecting on the basis of observed behaviour is critical. Because the population observed and selected from was a captive one, in a fox farm in the former Soviet Union and observed on daily basis. The orignal study population comprised tamest foxes from fox farms across the Soviet Union. These weren't randomly acquired wild foxes.

'Natural instincts' driven by genotype. Foxes have been demonstrated to likely have phenotype for tameness potential. That research was only possible because it was possible to select foxes which, even tho undomesticated, showed behavioral signs of potential for tameness. That study focussed on and selected from silver foxes. The coat colourings of the tamest foxes were even further removed from wild red fox colouring.

Not much point adding to an already polarised thread... but the reason why a (selected) fox can make a pet which behaves like a domesticated companion animal, is that it's been demonstrated that it can, because it likely has the genotype for tameness. Over time, an array of animals have been domesticated ...because of that underlying genotype. Not only dogs. Foxes have been added to that list of domesticated animals. So a pet fox would be a pet fox, like a pet cat is a pet cat, as a pet pig is a pet pig ... Can't see people rushing out to acquire a pet fox, just as people don't exactly rush out to get a pet pig. Dogs & cats have the long history & the numbers. But it's still a possibility of acquiring a pet fox (in fact, as I've said, I'd like science to keep an interested eye on such efforts). Dogs and cats have also been selectively bred for generations to live with humans. In dogs we've bred for bite inhibition, people focus, sociability with dogs and others etc etc. These are first generation wild origin animals. Having a genotype for tameness will not be evident in many of these. That trait was linked to colours other than red. On every level that I can see, this is not a good idea.

I truly believe these people just want to protect them, since neutering and releasing is illegal they are just trying to spare these animals death by rehoming them. It's not about finding the joys of a new pet type, they don't want to market these animals, just spare them. Spare them from what? I, like many other people do not consider humane euthanasia as the worst possible fate for an animal. Google "keeping fox as pet" or similar and read about the myriad of difficulties the idea raises. It seems most people consider the idea, ESPECIALLY in sububia, a bad one. A sample of the advice available: And what happens if it all doesn't go to plan and Foxy needs to find a new home? The RSPCA has already condemned any notion of having foxes as pets. Will this rescue be taking back every fox it places? Or will shelters be expected to pick up the pieces and PTS? God forbid owners release their pets into the wild. Many will die a slow death. People need to get past the cute looks and realise they are dealing with a WILD animal and a feral pest at that. I love foxes but they have no place in this country and even less place in suburban homes.

A fair call plus the fact that those foxes will then contribute to another way of life that Russian research showed they have genetic potential for. It was found that foxes likely have a collections of genes which confers a propensity for tameness ... a genotype that they share with any species that are able to be domesticated. Which allowed for the 'tamed' foxes in their research program .... which came to behave like companion dogs. Also this OP 'fox rehoming' group is desexing the animals, so the population is actually being reduced by removing them from the wild. As demonstrated 'tameness potential' is the key trait, I'd expect those choosing the foxes are selecting on that behavioral basis. The Russian "reseach" was a byproduct of farming foxes for their pelts. Those genes can only be exploited by generations of breeding. They were also linked to dilute coat colours such as blue. These foxes are first generation kits from wild parents or wild born themselves. They will not be bred for tameness. I agree that there is no place in Australian society for exotic pets. If you want a fox as a pet get one of these. Or these

I hate fox hunting with a passion too. I also read about that incident with much sadness. The "whimpering" fox.. it broke my heart. I at least hope it may be a tool used to ban the "sport". Fox hunting with hounds is illegal here everywhere but Victoria and has been illegal in the UK since 2005. What fox hunting has to do with this thread sure beats me. If you think Strychnine baiting or trapping is a "kinder" death, think again. Quite a few dog owners struggle to contain their pet dogs. How fox owners would fare any better beats me. How is denying a wild animal territory and social interaction with other foxes "kind"???

I think you need to get out and meet both breeds and breeders. I know you've had a BC in the past but lines and temperaments vary between kennels. However, if you feel you aren't up for the exercise and stimulation that go with a working dog (show lines or not), I'd not recommend either breed. If you want small, smart and spunky, look at the Papillon.

Jesus - that poor family. Dogs were euthanised Dogmad - and rightly so.