Salukifan

So what's the alternative? Send them out as blank slates for adoptive families to learn about their behaviour as they go? Do I find out my adopted dog is a resource guarder when it bites me or my child? Do I find out my adoptive dog is a fence jumper when I come home to find it killed on the road or wreaking havoc in the neighbourhood? I don't think the perfect assessment method has yet been developed - unless it's foster care. But foster care places are not limitless and some dogs simply should not make it that far. In the meantime, there are issues of liability and responsibility to ensure unsafe dogs are not placed up for adoption. And those dog are are safe deserve priority for rehoming. If people choose to take on more challenging dogs and are up for the task? Good on them. But those homes are few and far between.

Yes, because unpredictably aggressive dogs are JUST what you want to be working with in such circumstances. NOT. Doesnt' show a lot of understanding of the work such dogs do does it. The most important thing a police dog has to do is attack only when directed to and to STOP when directed to. The idea of any dog used by police that would not do that is downright scary. Although all the police need to do is get crims to take food off the dogs and according to Pound Rounds, a predictably aggressive response is guaranteed! I can hear it now... "go Sabre - grab the nasty man who took your bone"..

I hope he's got a good solicitor. My guess is he'll need one at some stage. Some pretty gobsmacking guarantees being given there.

So how do you determine what is not rehomeable without temperament testing? TT also protects adopting families from danger or heartbreak - a factor that a few rescuers need to consider. Rescue is NOT just about saving dogs but about matching them to appropriate families and the number of families that would knowingly take on an aggressive resource guarder or a fence jumper is minimal. The number that could successfully manage such a dog is even fewer. So what do you do wtih such a dog in the months or years it might take to find the right home? If the answer is warehousing then I'm afraid I see PTS as a better option. The longer such dogs are warehoused with no work on their problems, the greater the issues for the adoptive family and the greater the chance that the adoption will fail. Those who choose do acquire a dog via rescue deserve to have a dog that will not bring heartache - and rescuers shouldn't abuse the trust of people who choose to adopt via them. Some of the unhappiest dog owners I've met have been saddled with dogs with serious behavioural issues (notably aggression) and cut adrift (or indeed blamed) by the rescue when they sought support. Charming. Then of course there are liability issues to consider. Who wants to be responsible morally or legally for a dog that bites a child, even if it's adopted with full disclosure. We CANNOT save them all. That's the reality pounds work under. And indeed, I'd argue that we SHOULD NOT save dogs that cannot be rehomed with safety and a good chance of success. If people want to get bent out of shape about such a poor state of affairs then their anger should be directed towards those who breed or buy irresponsibly, or who offlload at the first inconvenience, not the pounds left to clean up the mess.

I'd suggest a phone call to the local constabulary might be in order.. and of course save copies of any threats received. What's my favourite definition of a zealot?- "one who doubles their efforts, having lost sight of their aim". Sounds like there are a few zealots involved with this particular rescue group.

WTF? Are they really THAT ignorant??????

How? By asking why you want these stories? You still haven't given an answer to that. Or by telling you that you suggesting people don't care as much about their animals as you do is offensive?

If it isn't a witch hunt, then what is it's purpose? You still haven't said why you want these stories. If I'm not happy, I don't leave the vet clinic until I am and I chose my vet based on her reputation amongst experienced dog sports people, not because she was close or cheap. . So far I have NEVER been unhappy with the treatment my dogs have received and to be quite frank, I find your suggestion that I would put the vet before my animals offensive. You have no idea what I've done to ensure my dogs have received the best treatment that I can find for them. My vet treats my animals correctly. End of story.

Gee, this poses a few questions.... What is the purpose of your research? Are you only seeking stories of negative experiences? Is this an approved project for academic purposes? What level of confidentiality will you be providing for responses given to your request? Will you be given those vets named in stories the right of response to allegations made against them? How and when will the research be published? ETA: Hmmmm just looked at your posting history. If this is story collecting to support a potential civil action against a local vet, I think from an ethical perspective you should be saying so. I honestly don't know what stories about any other vet can do to support such an action.

Well done!!!

Tralee, just out of interest, do you find showing stressful? There's many a dog that reads its owners cues and takes its lead from that. A breed with a strong devotion to its owner and inclined to treat strangers with suspicion might not be inclined to allow a stranger to handle it if the owner was subconciously signalling that all was not well. Handler stress can really throw a dog. The stress of competition, the stress of the occasion, the stress of wanting to do well.... And of course the stress of wondering whether a dog that's not reacted well to being handled will react this time - you see these play out at shows every weekend.

HERE HERE !! This is what I have been attempting to say all along........... I have a few that have no interest in even humoring my wish for them to be show dogs. Does not mean they are lesser quality, just mean's they are not fond of shows. If I like em enough and they have good hip, elbow, eye and thyriod scores then I just may use them to breed and will definatly find them a job. I have read the same from LIlli on this forum about some of her dogs. I understand the presence of a lot of strange dogs can also be challenging for some livestock guardians. I'd have thought that's something you'd not want to discourage in a working breed. I have not yet had the pleasure of visiting Crufts but my understanding is that the sheer size of the event and the mass of the public would be stressful for some dogs, perhaps even dogs that are fine at smaller shows. I don't necessarily think that a show of that magnitude is going to show case every individual dog well. I'd be picking my Crufts dogs as carefully as I picked any show prospect. You'd need them bombproof.

There is at least one breed whose standard states that it is never to be handled by the judge. That breed is not in this country - it's banned. I don't lose any sleep about that. If the temperament of the Maremma is such that it needs to be approached carefully then it is the breed standard that needs to be changed to indicate that. However if an individual dog cannot handle a judge in a hat, in sunglasses or approaching in a particular manner, then I can only suggest that that dog be treated as other dogs of other breeds who have this issue are and either given further socialisation/training or simply not shown at all. You don't need the dog to greet the judge with joy. That would actually be a fault in quite a few breeds. You simply need it to stand solidly and not behave aggressively to the judge's handling IN THE PRESENCE OF ITS HANDLER. Is it really that big an ask? The show ring should not and cannot be used as the sole arbiter as to what constitutes merit in a breed. It's a sport, you train and participate in the sport and if you or your dog do not do well within the rules of the sport then my view is don't compete. If the dog cannot tolerate the handling of a judge while being exhibited, then don't show it. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the dog, its simply not a show dog.

Breed temperament is always going to be essential. But isn't there a place in any breed to moderate that temperament for the show ring by socialisation and training? If you don't train your dog to tolerate a strangers touch, how do you get a vet to handle it? All very well to talk about what's essential in a dog protecting it's flock but there are plenty of breeds that should display guarding qualities that can be handled by judges in the ring. Surely you can condition a dog to tolerate handling???? And if you can't, why show it? No working breed rises or falls on its show wins.

What an amazing story!

Back in my horse owning days I knew a woman with a very promising dressage prospect who got the "it's me or the horse" ultimatim from her husband. She sold the horse. He left her anyway. Beware the kinds of people who force those choices on you...

Half way step to being a hoarder IMO. Tends to happen when the number of animals goes up and the other person in the relationship doesn't share the passion. Happens in the dog world too. I don't think this argument really goes anywhere. I am entirely responsible for the health and welfare of any animal I own that cannot fend for itself. Therefore in terms of priorities, I see to the care and welfare of those animals over and above that of other people. However, I don't kid myself that dogs and people can hold the same place in my life. Preferences one way or the other seem somewhat pointless - dogs are not people, people are not pets. I sometimes get the impression that the "I prefer animals to people" brigade think they they are kinder human beings because of it. I don't. Maybe they just need to meet kinder people.

Me too - particularly in cheaper brands of pet food where the protein source is not specified. One of the reasons I like to know what protein is in the dog food I buy.

That's what the smooth coated Patterdales remind me of. Pics here

The ANKC Code of Ethics that prohibits rehoming pups before 8 weeks only applies to ANKC registered breeders. As far as I am aware there is no law that regulates how young a pup can be sold.

Thank you but :laugh:

A bony spine I'd consider to be 'normal' for an older dog as loss of muscle condition/tone/mass starts to take its toll. Weight, on the other hand is more challenging. I have a three dogs at home aged 13 or older. My personal belief for older dogs whose digestive systems are not working at optimal levels is that the QUALITY of the nutrition really starts to bite. You need to feed the best sources of protein etc that you can. Kibble's OK, premium kibble is best in that department due to quality of ingredients (IMO) but raw, unprocessed protein and fat is also important. I feed the RC Mini Seniors to my two older poodles (one is 15, one will be 15 this month) but I also feed raw chicken wings. You could try the RC Large Aging kibble if you wanted to try another product. Information is here and RC are usually pretty good at supplying a sample to try. I'd suggest upping the quantity of kibble too but also feeding chicken wings a few times a week. Don't forget though that she won't have the muscle of a younger dog and don't fret about that.

Yep, I get nervous and fuss.. and it definitely runs down the lead. From handling lessons, I know I'm supposed to place the dog's four legs and leave it the hell alone. And I will practice that a lot.

Yep, a lot of very experienced folk and talented handlers in Afghans. Whippets too - but we don't necessarily have a many high profile handlers. Glad I'm not showing in Melbourne though - 60-70 isn't an unusual breed entry there in the bigger metro shows. However your point about assuming you will be beaten before you enter the ring is a very good one and is something I tended to do. But not any more!!

No, not recognised. Probably pretty rare here, if here at all. A pretty hard dog for the unitiated I gather. They look like a lot of Staffy crosses to me