Mystiqview
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Everything posted by Mystiqview
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Southside Dog Obedience, Brisbane
Mystiqview replied to KitKat's topic in Training / Obedience / Dog Sports
before I left there (and the dark side of Brisbane back to the sunny Nth side) a few months ago, they were still doing intakes on the last friday of month. -
Have had dealings with him in the past too.. Thoroughly knowledgeable. Think he is now the chief trainer of the dogs out at Amberley Air base.
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Home Behaviour Training
Mystiqview replied to Lil Miss LeiLani's topic in Training / Obedience / Dog Sports
C&Z. Have PM'd you -
Nah critisize. Stuff what they think. I have been to clubs that teach a method THIS way or THAT only. Depending on what it is.. I will do it their way or not. One such funny one was teaching drop. It is so left field that I still cannot get my head around it. Not to mention I cannot bend the way they teach it. I have had trainers who will not allow food, will only use food, not allow clickers and so forth. Rocky is one that does not work for food. Yet one of the instructors say that 'all dogs will train for food". Rocky works for pats. Good by me.. One less thing I have to carry around. I have had one trainer who does not like or agree with check chains. Because I use a chain to train (collar only) rather than flat collar or slip collar, they think I am cruel to the dog. But when I train, I can count the times I have actually used the collar as a choke chain on one hand. To me and mine, the chain just signifies training as opposed to a flat collar which holds their council tags.
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Books are good. They give you theory and possible scenarios. The westons also have two good books that are easy to follow for the novice But the owner has to be able to look at their dog and go WHY is it so??
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yeah again I may have been spoilt. Before getting into dog training, I used to train horses and compete in dressage. After the fall where I broke my back, I got into dobermans and trained a few of those before getting a husky then now have for the past seven years had border collies. But even with border collies. There are smart ones and others who are a little thick. One border collie I had you would sware was a greyhound it was that much of a lounge lizzard. So NOT driven it was not funny. Have not been on training courses in the last couple of years, but have been on some really good ones and not so good ones. I used to instruct a few years ago, but decided my dogs come first and now just train my own dogs. Good instructors are hard to come by, volunteering at a dog club is rather thankless other than any personal satisfaction you may have. As volunteers are harder and harder to come by, they often get someone who has just progressed through the classes to instruct. Like you said, they may not have had much experience with other breeds, or may have been lucky with a particular dog. My training at this dog club is purely for the distractions of a class situation - certainly not the quality of instruction. I also train at two other private establishments who have quality instructors.
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Dr Ian Dunbar has some good books too. Before you get your puppy After you get your puppy There is another of his books, but I don't have it here right now to give the title. Susan Garret has one too I think it is called "Ruff love" from memory
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Amhailte, Sorry I misread your first sentence where you said "if you dog went[/] to break. Yep, I think we are in agreement. Just a shame that some instructors cannot instruct basic fundamentals to classes
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My opinion: I would have to ask, what did you do to stop the dog from breaking in the first place? A dog often gives signals to indicate they are going to break. Some people cannot read their dog's signals then go in hard for a dog breaking, where if they were able to read their dog, they would have been able to correct the dog before it broke. Corrections and praise only have a short window to be given before they hold no meaning for the dog (3 seconds). Once a dog has broken, it is too late. I have been lucky to have been trained by some top trainers and behaviourists. One of the first things we learnt was how to read a dog's signals. I do not mind the occassional AH AH in training. There is big difference between using an occasional AHAH to contantly growling AHAH at a dog doing stays. I myself use "look" or even the occassional AHAH BEFORE the dog breaks. Once the dog has broken, the use of AHAH's does not serve much purpose. My dogs are taught focus early in their training. As a result they look at me 99% of the time. If they look away doing stays, then I may use "look", "leave" or "ahah" depending on the situation. I know training grounds are full of distractions, smells, other dogs, people etc. Dogs wanting to play, owners wanting their dogs to say hello and play with your dog during training. Me personally, I do not let my dogs play with others during training. If my dog is losing focus, I will go away to the side of classs for a minute or two to have a one on one play with me. To get their drive and focus back onto me. After class, I will let my dogs play with select other dogs as a reward for their attention during class. I train at home as well as at parks and club training. It is all learning, as lets face it, there are plenty of distractions at a trial. Often our obedience competitions are held along side agility competions, so we need to have our dogs to be able to perform while there are plenty of distractions around. A dog has to be able to learn while there are other distractions around. They cannot just learn where there are no distractions. At first when first teaching a new exercise, you do train where there are no distractions. Then build up the number and type of distraction until they can work in an area where there are plenty of distractions. In my opinion only, contant growling at a dog, does nothing as it becomes used to this noise, and then turns off. Corrections of any sort should be quick and with enough emphasis to suit the individual situation. Praise should also be used when the dog does something good. I see too many people only use correction and little praise. If a dog is not praised for something it does well, it does not learn either. As I said earlier in a post, when you see the top trainers train, they have no need to constantly growl at their dog. Their communication to the dog is such that only the dog needs to hear it, not the whole oval. If they need to make a correction they are quick, sharp, to the point and not overdone (constant growling at a dog is overdone). Their praise is timed to perfection. If they need to go back to basics, they do to reinforce the exercise they are trying to do. Then build back up and proof it until they get what they are trying to achieve.
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Oops sorry.. Only just woke up when I wrote that. I read it to be Gold Coast not central NSW..
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Rohan Kilmartin of Animal solutions at Ormeau. ETA: He is a vet as well as qualified in chiro. Have used him a number of times. He is really gentle on the dog.
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Teaching The Quiet Command?
Mystiqview replied to EmmaKate's topic in Training / Obedience / Dog Sports
The easiest way is to teach them to bark on command, then teach them quiet. Mine will bark on "watch"... I live on acerage and well. often I do not know if there is someone there until they are ringing the doorbell. You can also get the dog on the inside of the house, while people on the outside rattle windows and act like a burglar. Get suspicious and go who is it?? Watch... Once they can bark on command.. Go "that'll do or quiet" then reward -
Rspca Training At Fairfield
Mystiqview replied to MolassesLass's topic in Training / Obedience / Dog Sports
My partner worked there for a few years until a year ago. Yep very into purely positive. No negative correction at all. Could say a lot more.. -
well just got home from show training.. and he did well.. free stacks nicely... gotta love the obedience work... What a handsome lad he was.
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The funny thing is, he stayed for awhile before breaking. The first sit stay exercise (3 minutes) he did perfectly. It was the ones following that he broke. As I said, a constant barrage of people yelling AAAHHHs at their dogs left and right of you of course will take its toll on a more timid dog. It is my belief that some instructors no longer instruct people how to correctly train their dogs and turn blind eyes and ears to what is going in a class situation. If a dog breaks a group exercise, you don't yell at it from across the field while it continues to break position.. Then eventually put in back in the line up and go back to where everyone else is across the field. You put in back into position, and stand infront of the dog's nose and then go home and proof it there. Come back and gradually get it up to a state where you can put a good distance between yourself and the dog. You are not allowed to yell at the dog from across the ring in a trial (and yes I do trial in open with another dog), so why practice the behaviour in class. Of course you cannot do many things in a trial ring as you can in training. But yelling AAHH AHH's IMO across the field equates to bad manners and bad training. The better top trainers don't need to do it.. so the lesser ones should not need to do it either. Anyway catching up with Miss Monaro tonight at show training and hopefully get some confidence back with her lovely labs.
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Jemma: Kirbyholme Jemas Instyle CD Rocky: Wylie Try Rocky Road Mia: Wylie Wicked Temptation Miko: Mystiqview Fire Inth Sky
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Rocky is fine apart from a tooth mark through his ear. Thankfully it is a nice clean one and have treated it at home. Aside from that he is ok. A little frazzled. Catching up with Miss Monaro tomorrow night to get him to play with her labs to give a positive experience. This dog normally rolls over for everything. I had him running with other stud dogs with never any fights. Great for two whole dogs. Do not get me wrong. I will yell at my dogs when the need arises. I do not think however for training that every command and praise should be in the same tone, and all harsh. I find it remarkable that when people say HEEL to their dog they have to do it harshly, likewise with the COME command. These two especially should be happy and cheerful.. My other commands are assertive but not harsh. I agree with going back in, replace the dog in the broken position, and then stepping back to infront of the dog's nose. You do not go back to standing 3 metres away from the dog. The dog is not ready for you to be that far away.. No one heard about going back to basics?? Then stepping it out to where you were?? The instructor was basically infront of the person whose dog had broken and just stood there. I have nothing against this person at all. He knows his stuff. He trials.. But sometimes I think that when it comes to instructing, they forget to instruct the basics especially when a dog keeps breaking an exercise. Then the stupid owners fail also to listen and go back to their 3 metres cause the rest of the class is doing that and I think they feel that people might laugh at them if they cannot do the same within the same amount of time others take. Have to clarify something in my first post.. with training.. you take a step forward...two back then two forward.. (Not backward and backward as I had initially wrote) Over time, your backward steps lessen and your forward steps increase... Well that is the plan anyway.
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Erny, I know what you are saying and yes we will get to that level. I have been training dogs a long time and horses before a bad fall stopped that hobby. However this is the first rescue kinda dog I have had. and as with all animals who have been mistreated, you have to first get their trust, and go slowly slowly building up confidence until they can get there. In the process you will take steps forward, then backward then backward again. I had to praise him a month ago at our royal show. I had him in the pedigree stand where he was patted by the multitudes.. When you think that 14 months ago, NO-ONE could get near him..very marked improvement. I had him next to rides, microphone even fireworks. All ok, so it is not loud noise per sae. However it is also very hard with someone standing less than a metre from you yelling at their dog at the top of their lungs harsly (and I mean harshly. Not one word of praise from this person at a praise tome of voice) at their dog and not have any dog melt. He was doing well for the first 5 minutes of this.. After about 15 minutes.. He was getting concerned. I moved to other end of class lineup... He can still hear it of course, but it is not right in his ear so to speak. I am sure you can appreciate that constant barrage of this kind to a soft dog will eventually take its toll.. Proofing is all about little blocks at a time. I hope you do not expect a dog to sit there and not react to 45 minutes of the person next to you yelling at their dog. He was only just promoted to class 3 at this club ( HE was in class 3 at another club before this but I dropped him back a grade when I moved back to this side of town and this club) a week ago..
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What Constitutes An Nq In Recall?
Mystiqview replied to KismetKat's topic in Training / Obedience / Dog Sports
Actually I just love the people who say you cannot eye your dog..... BCS actually LOOK for eye contact and get lost if you do not look at them. Although I have to learn to look at my dog through the corner of my eye while still looking up Thanks BC.. yeah I am the same if I am waiting to go into the ring. I wait well back.. IF I am not up next.. I am no where near the ring with my dog.. Call it manners. -
At training tonight. My dog was doing REALLY well... until a person next to me was yelling and growling at her dog..Every time she heeled.. it was a harsh HEEL... Harsh LOOK..and of course the necessary YANKS on the chain. (Not again chains.. I use one.. I just never need to yank it) When I train, I talk softly to my dogs.. He is the only one that needs to hear me.. not the 15 or so others in the class. My commands are soft, my praise is soft unless he does some thing really well.. then it may get louder.. like many a border collie, mine is sensitive and very responsive.. and well given his history with the previous owner (was bashed - I got him at 5 months after his breeder got him back) can be a little timid.. I moved to the other end of the class. At the end when we did drop stay.. a &^&^$* lab got up and attacked him....Useless owner was bouncing all over the place.. And I get the dirty looks cause my dog broke the exercise. DO not know what it is about some people who think that a dog MUST be yelled and GROWLED at if they even so much as blink the wrong way. Let alone break the stay and they are 3 metres away and have to YELL AH AH! What purpose does it serve??????? THe dog has broken and is continuing to break and the owner just stands there and yell AH AH. Rather than quietly going back, putting the dog back into position and then goes to JUST INFRONT OF THE NOSE Did not think the dog put in a bite.. but he has blood on his ear. There is my vent for the night.
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What Constitutes An Nq In Recall?
Mystiqview replied to KismetKat's topic in Training / Obedience / Dog Sports
BC. I actually had a dog attack mine in the ring while doing dumbell over the jump. Some idiot was standing right near the ropes with his dog on a long lead... Just as jemma went over the jump to pick up the dumbell, his dog ran in and got her... Unfortunately it was her first go in open, and apart from the fact that the whole exercise shook her and she also peed in the ring (another -10 points) the bloke got off scot free and was not even offered the chance to redo the exercise.. although after that... did not think she would have. Took her ages for her to be able to dumbell in ring. Tis all disheartening... but that is trialling. There is always another -
What Constitutes An Nq In Recall?
Mystiqview replied to KismetKat's topic in Training / Obedience / Dog Sports
In answer to your question re the priorities. Obedience trialling is a percission sport. So accordingly, each move is based on the accuracy of each exercise. It does not have much relevance to the home life where all a person really cares about is whether the dog comes when it is called.. They don't care if it comes crocked and does not sit infront.. All they want is for it to come. Likewise for all other exercises. If I did not trial myself.. I would only want for the same things.. I hear around the traps that some people when they are talking only aim for the qualifying score... if you only aim for 170.. that is all you get.. If you aim for the full 200 marks...you have better choice of getting toward that standard. Why throw 30 points for near enough is good enough?? -
What Constitutes An Nq In Recall?
Mystiqview replied to KismetKat's topic in Training / Obedience / Dog Sports
A number of 'minor' faults can also lead to a NQ. A dog who fails to sit when you walk off and halt is major point loss. Same could be if dog sits, stands then sits again before you get to position. If the dog comes in croocked, minor fault If the dog does not sit straight or too far back, minor fault If you do not leave the required 3 second pause between Rover... Come... cant think if minor or major fault. WOuld have to pull out my rule book on that one. -
shake hands is as bad as rub belly..... Set the scene.. Obedience ring... recall.... beautiful recall.. get to infront and stop, sit. Then roll over for belly rub... very funny....after you get over you just got a zero for the exercise. Had the same with shake hands...stand for exam... person comes near... up comes paw for shake.. does not have to be sitting for shake hands...and I do use "paw" and not shake.....it just became too common to come up.. sit or stand and lift paw... arrgghh dogs.. gotta love em