Mystiqview

I have an interview at Ipswich on Friday afternoon. I then have to go to Coolangatta for a training weekend. Can anyone recommend or is able to mind one male border collie for a few hours while I attend my interview? it is a long way back to Brisbane's nth to collect him then back down to the seminar. I am really reluctant to go to the Links at Goodna

Who else is going?

Why would you have a dog debarked beofre trying other methods such as training? I don't have a problem with debarking in some cases, but I believe people should at least go through other less invasive options first. Agree. When I had one girl here the first time on debark row (even so far as booking her in). I tried everything first. For me debarking should be last resort, not first. One thing someone said to me along the line and I forget who. Some people are more offended with a debarked dog than a dog barking as you can tell a dog has been debarked. The bark is muffled like it has a sore throat. For some, that is more annoying. A friend of mine has had success with the "husher" muzzle. Although, personally, with all of these things (muzzles, bark collars etc), the dog soon learns when the collar is on and off and when it can bark and not. So training behind the scenes is still important. Worst thing for me, is my dogs bark when I am not there, making training harder.

You know with all this. Honestly, I wonder how much is made up of BYB vs puppy farm. To me, and please correct me if I am wrong (nicely), Puppy farm is large can I say commercial enterprise. No doubt they should be stopped for a variety of reasons. You just have to go Petlink and see all the BYB's advertising there. There have been many scams over the years with the website classifieds closing briefly a number of years ago due to some. While much smaller scale, BYB's are more widespread in the local community and I suppose have easier access to the local community as the prospective buyer does not have to travel too far to get their pup, they think they are buying from a "breeder" (which in a term they are, but quality in a range of areas is lacking in reality), so they THINK they are getting a better product than something from a puppy farm/pet store. Now for me, these are the biggest concern, as they are "hidden" from mainstream.. They are small operations, flying under all the legislative red tape as I mentioned previously in one of my posts. While law DICTATES they must do certain things, because there is no tracking facility on them (EG: CCC membership, local council permits etc) they continue to fly underneath the law undetected unless someone in the local community reports them. Whereas puppy farms are large commercial enterprises that need a range of permits, likewise with pet stores, given their more "open" nature shall I say, they are more traceable and therefore more reportable. The animals there, mostly need to have the appearance of being well cared for, as many are in glass boxes in full view of the general public. The biggest problem as mentioned above the way I see it, is regulating the existing legislation. It is there, but there are not enough resources (namely man power by Governments) to enforce them.

No - they have never had a history of hip problems so there has not been seen to be a reason for it. And there lies the danger. If no checks are done, then how do you know there is a problem brewing? I know a breeder who used to hip/elbow score their toy dogs, no one else did under the guise "There is no known problem within the breed". Can you imagine the shock to find there was?? I know another breeder of Dalmatians, it has only recently become common practice there as "there as no history".. well imagine her surprise when she got 0:2 elbows. I know of another breeder who did not believe in hip scoring as they did not like putting the dogs under anesthetic for the xrays. A litter was bred and at 8 months had a number of pups within the litter end up with HD. I have seen ISDS border collies with high hip scores in the 20's. Now there is not supposed to be a hip problem with the working lines either. I have just done a google search on ISDS working dogs. I see a couple of Astra dogs with hip scores around 5:7. While many are very similar to show line bcs, with many show line bcs also having much lower hip scores. I have found these: (again it was believed our working border collie cousins did not have hip issues) This information is courtesy of the Anadune Website GROMIT TIMORG- 10:8 BLACKGOLD TEDDYBEAR - 12:9 Oh Ted (ISDS 292354) - 5:7 Germal Fern (ISDS 263789) 13:5 Killiebrae Ammo (ISDS 262178) 8/16 Sheltysham Strolin Home (ISDS 265832) 9:10 Manderians Falcon (ISDS 282001) Black Tricolour Dog, born 4 May 2006, sire Manderian Summersolstice, dam Shepwood Burning Torch For Manderian (ISDS 268850), hips 26/22 Highyews Moi Pikta Kyon (ISDS 269353) Black Tricolour Dog, born 2 Dec 2003, sire Ben Of Highyews (ISDS 237001), dam Highyews Dreamer (ISDS 251408), hips 29/34 Pandy Ebony Gray (ISDS 260577) Black Tricolour Dog, born 27 Aug 2002, sire Cap (ISDS 245477), dam Elian Peg (ISDS 240030), hips 36/37 Random interesting read: http://www.dogsworldwide.com/drdog/contributions/mw2.htm

I have seen ads by registered breeders on petlink advertising a litter puppies without papers. It was soon after Pedigree Dogs Exposed, so I don't know whether it was a close mating (eg father/daughter) or a mating back to back. The breeder is also a judge. I have had unreasonable puppy buyers, both for pet and other breeders. Anyone enquiring about a puppy should have equal right to question me and I them (within reason to both sides). The puppy buyer needs to know I am doing the right thing and I need to know they INTEND to do the right thing with their intended pup. Both sides can only go by the answers the other give, both in person or by other forms of communication. I have also wasted hours of time and money on phone calls for puppy buyers who are not serious and are only just shopping around. Puppy buyers forget breeders may also work full time, have families and other things they attend to. We do not necessarily sit at home all day waiting for THEIR communication. Trust is on both sides. I always tell anyone enquiring about puppies to research, research and research. If you need a new car, you research make, model, price and problems associated with that particular model.. same goes with puppies, You need to know what you are getting is all that it is supposed to be. I normally do not like comparing objects to animals, but when it comes to the research part, it is exactly the same. Unfortunately too many newbies to the breed cannot get over the cute face and don't go any further. Maybe a quick checklist or something on the breeder pages/puppy pages on choosing a right breeder/puppy. But in saying this, the person NEEDS to READ that information. At some point, responsibility has to lie with the buyer, doing their research properly. They also need to be comfortable with the conditions (if any) the breeder stipulates. They need to be satisfied the breeder is telling them the truth and vice versa.

What the? are you serious? Yep. It was quite a number of years ago, but one that was posted on here or another forum group could in theory by a series of yes/no answers classify a Chihuahua as a pit bull. Just through physical appearance.. There was a huge outrage naturally at the time.

It is considered bad manners to enter a trial just to see how he goes. There are certain etiquettes you have to be aware of, ring craft for you and your dog that will set you up for success. Most obedience clubs do offer what we call ring run out exercises where they will set up a mock trial and you can practice. No one will begrudge a dog and owner who has tried to prepare and stuffs it up on the night. Judges tend not like those that have had no prep or have bothered to learn the etiquettes and ring craft (and the rules). Other than that, your dog is physically old enough. Personally though, no matter the age, I prefer to have my animals pretty reliant before going into the ring.

That's all and fine until you have a dog that sits in the "beep" zone to flatten the battery then still gets out. Don't laugh, I had it. I had the retailers of the k9 collar come out and see for themselves they did not believe me.

One vet told me to go down to local bulk discount chemist and get the glucossomine tablets there for humans. Break tablet in half and give that to dog. Said it is the same stuff as the more expensive dog ones and it is generally cheaper too. He also said the powders were also mixed with glucose. And sometimes it is not mixed uniformly (can't think of better word right now), so on a teaspoon today you could be giving more glucose, and tomorrow more glucossomine. Whereas with tablet, it is bounded much better and you are giving same dose each time

My last litter was in the laundry which is just off the kitchen and part of the house. I like the laundry as it is a small room, nearby to the lounge and kitchen and a room I can maintain a good constant temperature without too much variable. I have a large painted and disinfected cleaned whelping box, I had an oil heater going as I only do winter litters as for me it is easier to keep puppies warm than cool in summer. I whelp on newspaper and clean that between each puppy and again wipe out the whole whelping box after the whole litter is born. Once the litter is whelped I will install the safety pig rails into the whelping box to prevent mum from rolling onto the pups and suffocating them. These just slide in and out as needed. In addition to the oil heater keeping the room at a nice ambient temperature, there are two heat pads within the whelping box for the puppies to crawl onto and off as needed. The puppies will live in the laundry for the first three weeks. If needed, the smaller pups will be supplimented fed if mum is not coping if I have a large litter or there are small ones who need to catch up to their larger siblings. When they are started to be introduced to solid foods, I only use premium puppy formula. I do not believe in weetbix diets with milk or egg as weetbix is only a filler. I use premium puppy re-hydratable food which I will hydrate back up and mix with biolac and beef mince into a watery porridge. I prefer to feed quality food that pups will get every benefit from eating. I then allow them an adjoining "sun room" that I can hose out and clean easily as it is on concrete. When I am at home I will set up a small run outside in the sun and with shade and water and let them have a romp around in the grass while under supervision. Mum is given lactose free milk or biolac for calcium as I do not normally agree with calcium tablets unless vitally necessary. The bitch is fed on a high quality premium diet with plenty of meaty bones.

NSW will register most litters and will place them on the limit register, flagged " never to be upgraded ". Wonder if Qld is the same ..will check but hope it never happens ..was not impressed being officially slapped on the wrist over less than a week out !! had not realised my girl had a shorter cycle than her normal 6 mths ..still I learnt to now double check !!! I can just imagine if this happened and you had to place them on limited that this would be the litter with the type of pup you had waited all your life for ..Murpheys Law .. I know of a breeder who has had a fifth litter. Got the vet letter early, got approval from cccq ealier rather than at time of registering.

There is a template for one on Dogs Qld website. Pretty basic. here are a few examples: http://www.thedogsbestfriend.com/contract.htm Google dog co own contracts. You will come up with a few hits you can modify

Depending who is doing the breed assessment. I would say yes. Even those with papers and microchipped, get confused by some as pitbulls.

**Flame suit on** I have electronic bark collars for mine. Quality Innotek ones. Not the crappy cheap Ebay ones. If they start barking, it goes on. With mine, it does not help the Amstaff mongrel up the back tries to go them through the fence and generally starts the barking, and we did have builders next door for over 6 months that they had to tell off. They also have a Rotti that likes to bark, so naturally mine has to return the favour. Very hard when you have outside influences, but sometimes for the peace of the neighbourhood, it calls for drastic measures. The clicker method is good, but time consuming.. Good if you have the time and are there when the dog barks (which I am not - at work when mine bark). Mine don't bark when I am at home, so for me that made it difficult. I have blocked the fences with tarp so they cannot see through. It has helped a little bit. One dog has been on debark row a couple of times now. I have not gone through it, but she has been placed on debark row a couple of times.

Kavik, It is no worse at the moment in the ANKC border collie where people are breeding ee-red to merle. That is just a disaster waiting to happen if someone without half a brain gets hold of an ee-red animal and breeds it back to a merle dog. Temperament seems to be an issue across all breeds really. Some breeders really do not look at temperament when breeding which they should do. No matter which breed, researching breeders is vital. Some of the ones I have seen with sus temperaments have been in the breed 20+ years and should know better. Time in breed is good, however does not guarantee quality.

Lets just go back to the dark ages, shall we? Prohibition has never worked and will wont work again. Plenty of registered breeders advertise in those mediums you want banned. How else do people find the registered breeders? Queensland tried the path of compulsory desexing legislation. It was quashed. Registered Breeders cannot keep everything in their back yard to keep the lines going. There are plenty of people who compete in dog showing, which the dog has to be whole, who are responsible owners with their whole and NON desexed animals. The pounds here admitted they did not have a problem with the registered breeders and their dogs being dumped in the pounds. The general population needs to be whacked over the head. Puppies are not like appliances, if it stops working so throw in in the bin. The current legislation here is fairly good, it had teething problems when it first came out. IF IT CAN BE POLICED!!! There are not the resources by the authorities to oversee the current legislation of compulsory microchipping, permits etc. Even some registered breeders are responsible for hiking prices for the fad colours/breeds for demand. And there is where you got to start looking.. Supply and Demand. If there is Demand, there will be supply. The big reason why Prohibition won't work.

Are Koolies hip scored as a matter of course?

Some people should not reproduce let alone breed animals. While I don't believe in kittens/puppies in pet stores, I agree, market demand will always be there. As long as people think they can make a quick buck, it will be there. It is not helped by fad breeds and colours within certain breeds and some breeders both registered and non cashing in on these various fads. Especially when you see in my breed, black/white $800, Blue Merle $1200 and in some cases much higher prices, with some advertising "Rare" as a feature selling point to justify more money for a certain colour. With microchipping becoming compulsory in Qld as of July last year, I still see a number of registered breeders omitting the pups will be microchipped, let alone BYB puppies. I agree the current legislation needs to be regulated and policed. Until it is administered properly, people will still fly underneath official radars. At present, the only people truely accountable to current legislation are registered breeders where there is some form of paperwork to trace animals back to them. BYB and puppy farmed dogs are not traceable as there is in many cases not register. Without that, it is very hard for authorities to track animals back. I know for my own permit here, I have to be a CCCQ registered breeder to get my council permit for breeding plus the yearly registrations to both council and the CCCQ. BYB breeders pumping out litter after litter will not even have this basic council requirement as they cannot get the permit without being a registered breeder. Without CCCQ membership, they have to pay the $90 odd a year for whole dog registration.. Hmm. How many dogs are out there unregistered and being bred and advertised on a certain free website or local paper. Pet shops operate under different rules, but they still need to be accountable for the pups they buy in and then sell. Personally I think it is cruel to have the animals in those small glass boxes. I don't care how often their cage is cleaned or they are taken out for play by the staff.

A Maltese is a terrier breed, trainer said he wasn't a shih tzu cross in his opinion just a maltese and that these dogs are renown for being little yappers was his comment!. His former owner told me he used to bark whenever anyone walked past her place but she just ignored him as she thought he was being such a good little watch dog! Don't think a SWF would scare anyone, hopefully as he's only 3 I can train him out of it. Hmm.. Given the RSPCA's own guide to dog identification used to identify Chihuahua as a pit bull should question their ability to determine cross breds.

Now there is some excellent and very intelligent advice!! Well said Bonduca, if only we could all cut right to the nitty gritty of the matter like you do. So there you have it, pick the breed you like the look of. Forget about if the breed is suitable for your goals. Forget about about health concerns. Forget about thinking how the breeds temperament might be to live with. Just pick the breed that visually appeals to you, remember "that is all the counts". Actually it isn't bad advice. Both breeds sound suitable for the OP. Within both breeds there is a range of temperaments. Their visual appearance is a reasonable difference. Pity you aren't closer to Croydon haylz27. Leopuppy and I are usually there on Sundays and there are other nice examples of both breed. There is a herding comp on at Nyora this weekend. Should be lots of Aussies there as it is at a breeders house. Big drive for you though. The lady I get my borders from lives in Geelong, can pass over her details if you want to talk to her. She has a lovely big boofy blue 6 month old pup looking for a home at the moment. Hey Shortstep You have a lot to offer in regards to your knowledge BUT...................... your delivery sucks. Your post implies that you think everyone has no idea, even treating others with a condescending attitude, and in my case that maybe so but after 30 years around and owing the breed I feel I know a little but am still learning as I am not ignorant. You need to learn some manners or better still social skills as I feel you lack both. I do not know who you are but with the tone of your replies I think I may have some idea that you could be 1 of 2 people and if I am right I am truly dissapointed Keep up with your holier then thou post as I am sure you will win alot of respect on here Shortstep; Where did Bonduca say to ignore the health concerns, temperament or anything else. She said to consider a breed that you visually like. No use picking any breed that you do not particularly like the look of, even if the breed in general does all you want it to unless a person is prepared to make concessions. If the person likes the looks of the aussie and their traits, then maybe they should start looking first at the Aussies and doing more research. Conversely, If the person likes the look and traits of a border collie whether that be working or show lines, then more research on breeders, temperament and suitability should start from there. Haylz; No matter what breed you pick, as a number of other people have said, start talking to breeders of those breeds at shows/trials and do more research there. Each breed and class (show vs working) have good and "bad" qualities depending on YOUR situation. Unfortunately it is a decision only you can make. Within each breed and each litter as others have pointed out, you will find a range of temperaments from social butterfly, high drive, low drive and introvert. Hopefully what ever breeder you end up going with, will be able to assist you to identify a puppy that will potentially suit YOU and YOUR requirements. If you are into agility and so forth, start talking to people at trials who have aussies and borders. There are more working line borders in agility now and I am sure you will be able to compare their different styles and work out what would suit your requirements.

That in my opinion is lack of responsibility on the handler. Some dogs can be equally as driven on and off the field and from the same lines and BE QUIET with their handlers than other dogs who non stop bark while their handlers ignore the issue and let them get away with it. blame the handler, not the dog ETA: Clarifying adjectives

I was more curious. I had made plenty of mental notes to watch the segment, but when the time came, missed it and Channel 9 (where I think the program aired) is useless on having news segments up on their website after the fact. I use shock bark collars on two of mine here. I have no issue with them. The dogs live inside and out, they are taken to the park etc. One dog was put on debark row for awhile, but managed to be given a temporary release. I have no issues with debarking if other avenues are considered and tried first. Sometimes there is no choice, but I would like to see other avenues looked at first. That is just me. Other's may have different views. My neighbour is pretty good. I have asked her to let me know if my dogs bark and are causing a problem and I will do my best to fix it. However in saying that, the ferral up the back of us with her staffy x lets her dogs bark and run at the fence and does little to control it. He runs at our back fence and causes my dogs to go up there to bark in return. I have since blocked off that part of the yard, and hung tarps on the fence so mine can't see through and vice versa. But the ferral owner will still do nothing about her dogs. I cannot walk outside the laundry door without her dogs at the back fence barking. The ferral across the street has a english springer. Again, they do nothing with the dog. Even when they get home and the dog is in the front yard, they will not even bend down and pat the dog :eek I have called council on that one. IT will bark and bark all day and NIGHT. Daytime I can handle when I have my RDO's but at night.. Sorry I love my sleep. I will not let mine bark at night and would like the same courtesy returned.

I think 9 news on monday night. Don't know if it was local Brisbane (most likely) or was aired national. The shorts were along the lines of barking dogs, council regs to keep them quiet and the extreme measures owners are resorting to. Another on the shorts stated "it was bad animal management" I can only assume it was to do with debarking or shock bark collars

I am pretty sure I saw the headlines for the story yesterday for Channel 9 Brisbane. It was concerning barking dogs and the extreme measures people are taking. Did anyone see the story? And if so, what were they up in arms about? Was it bark collars or debarking?