Mystiqview

Check with Customs. It is the safest way.

This topic has been done any number of times. I would also suggest you go searching through the old topics. The show ring is not the bee all and end all: There are some rare breeds that are shown. They get their CH because they are often the only dog there. A CH title is gained by just turning up. Is that a good way to evaluate your breeding stock? In more common breeds, some people with lesser quality animals drive out of the way to attend shows. Again they are often the only ones there. And their CH is won with petrol and 6 point challenge certificates. Is this a good way to evaluate breeding stock? Other people have damn good dogs and don't show. They may have a myriad of reasons, "no time", "injury", "kids" or no interest. They may be very knowledgeable and know their breed well and have the eye to judge a good dog. Some people who do show, still do not have a good eye for a good dog. Some people who compete in sports may or may not have a good eye for a dog. Just because a dog is doing well in the sporting field, does not automatically mean the dog is great on conformation. And for this definition of conformation, I mean SHOW conformation. You will find that those that show dogs for their breed have certain criteria and a "look" about their dogs. Those that do performance also have a a certain criteria or "look" about their dogs. It does not mean that either camp is wrong, or their look is necessarily "better" than the other's. People breed for different reasons and want different attributes coming out in their program. Health, temperament, structure (a dog that does not break down with say HD/ED) are probably the most important attributes in a breeding program. There is the breed standard of course, but the breed standard is subjective in may ways. While it gives the breeder a guide to what their breed should be, it is the interpretation of that standard that differs. There are people who breed for the pet market. Their dogs are not "show quality" in what many of us would call quality. They are "sound" dogs that are that. "just dogs". The temperaments are good, they health test and do the right things generally for the breed. They do not make illusions about what they are breeding for. Then there are those who breed because they can. Again their dogs are "just dogs". Nothing special about them. Temperaments may be sound. They may breed for (in my breed) colour and may not do all the health testing. They proclaim their dogs are "show quality" when they are clearly not. Unsuspecting puppy buyer gets one of these dogs and trots off to a show ring, to be laughed and ridiculed at by other breeders. (not openly maybe) but are told their dog is not the quality they were led to believe. It is this group I think that many ethical breeders dislike. They are breeding to cash in on the "money". Shortcuts are taken and in the course of the long term, gives ethical breeders a bad name as unsuspecting joe public has their first dealing with these breeders then tars all other breeders with the same brush. ETA: Post layout

There are plenty of good books out there. Not all courses benefit everyone. And really, before going on any course, you should have SOME idea beforehand. Not everything can be solved by just going on a course. I cannot think of many if any of the breeders here ever had the benefit of a course. Our knowledge has been gained from books, internet, and life experience. It is research, talking to other breeders and comparing practical experiences that gives us OUR knowledge. There is good information to be found in an un-named book. You won't know what its like until you start to read it.

I used to train my dogs to lie on their back.. so I could get (and see) the underside of the nails. (This was before breeding). I had a husky years and years ago who I think at the breeder's developed a dislike to clippers. I had to file her nails.. Hence the suggestion about files. I know a couple of breeders show people who use a dremmel and "grinds" the nails similar to what we get done when we get false nails.. They sware by it.

Lollipop. If the breeder did more research on her breeding, she would have realised herself that cryptorchidism runs strongly behind Chester's breeding. Very high chance the sire had crypto siblings. With that pedigree, it would also be known that red was a high possibility in the litter. The owner of the sire, should also have listed possible problems behind their dog. The breeder of the bitch, knowing it was going to a breed home, should have done the same. Some times it really irks me when breeders are not forthcoming with information about their lines when selling a breed bitch or allowing a dog out at stud dog. If more breeders were, I am sure some of the problems encountered, maybe avoided.

That is a great idea. I am hesitant with the nail clippers, as there are still so little. I tried with a nail file and it was not very succesful. Get yourself a emry board suitable to file acrylic nails, they are not bad. I know of others who swear by the dremmel or grinding. From what I have read, best to start young on them and train them up to do it.

I use human toe nail cutters. Depending on you breed, finger nail cutters also work a treat

It was my understanding that blue eye/s in a blue merle border collie are permissable in the show ring? but a disqualifying fault in any other colour? correct me if I have read the breed standard wrong You are correct. The dog that was "show quality" was black/white. So a blue eye a disqualifying fault. There is another "breeder" up here who has a chocolate bitch and promotes the fact the dog has TWO blue eyes. How these can advertise they breed "show quality" dogs, is beyond me.

Also have a look at Ebay. There are some great books that come up on there from time to time.

If your dog is being fed a quality diet of premium dry and fresh meaty bones, then why are you feeding calcium? The dog should be getting it from it's diet. I went to one seminar where the expert warns against feeding of calcium suppliments. Their claim "It reduces the effectiveness of the gland that draws it out of the food. By closing it down because it does not have to work to get calcium (and other elements), when the dog DOES Need calcium, then the time it takes for the gland to "fire up" can be detrimental." I would only feed calcium suppliments on direction from my vet/specialist.

I will agree. I sent my puppy home with a 3kg bag of what it had been eating (premium food). Puppy buyer went into local pet store/vet who talked them into a different premium brand. They did not take my advice about if they choose to change food, to mix what the pup was used to gradually to the new brand. They finished the bag, then started it on the new food the sales person talked them into. Next thing, I get a phone call to say the pup had diahorrea soon after changing brands. Told them not to feed hard beef bones until the pup grew its adult teeth or there was a good chance of breaking the canines. What happened?? They feed it beef bones and she broke her canines. I get a phone call asking me about that. I also told them when they took their puppy home to refrain from doing the drive around the rellies to show and tell. They went over to the rellies the following day after brining the pup home for show and tell. I also advised not to feed the pup for a few hours before travel as motion sickness is in that line. They did and she was sick in the car. My puppy owners get a thorough going over with recommendations, and hand outs a week before they collect their pup. They are also given a care sheet in the folder that goes home with the pup. I encourage questions and these people asked plenty, took notes. My point I suppose. Is it does not matter how much you can give people. Some just don't listen. They think they know better or just don't think.

What about getting to know a few of your breeder clients. There are some very knowledgeable breeders out there that I am sure would be willing to assist. There are of course basic and heavier breeding books on the market that give you the information you can study. But I have found also hands on been there done that practical is one of the best learning tools. Those that have been there and done it can pass on that knowledge. The dogs have not read the same books as us, and while the text books are great for a basic knowledge and understanding, sometimes personal experience is what comes down to it when you are there and up to know elbows in birthing fluid.

I am with the others on here regarding on doing your homework. I myself have produced both red/white and sable/white in two litters. I also agree to not charge more for colour as for black/white. One sable pup was given away to a friend, whom you will see on here. $700-$900 seems to be the going price for a quality show puppy from ethical breeders. A few of those I know have had colour in their litters. Red does seem to be the new fashion colour up here. Health and temperament are very important in this breed. More health issues are coming up that cannot be DNA tested for. These include: testicle issues (mainly not dropping), mouth issues, deafness, epilepsy, lupis (and other immune disorders), other eye problems and exercise induced collapse. All apart from the deafness which can be detected before the pup leaves the breeder cannot be detected until they show it, sometimes not until they reach 2-4 years old. Some things just happen, and its bad luck. Other times, you just have to shake your head in wonder?? There are plenty of disreputable colour breeders popping up here in Queensland. They have no idea of what they have in their yard, no idea on genetics (both colour and what lies behind their dogs, because if they did, they would not be doubling up on a few of them), and no idea WHAT SO EVER, what show quality is. Maybe if they actually step foot in a show ring, they may have get an idea. But they think that because they can sell a pup on Main Registration, it is Show quality. I recently saw one breeder say their show quality dog was one with a blue eye. This is a breed fault in the show ring. Please be patient. There are some great ethical breeders out there who have colour in their lines and do all the right things. As far as sex goes. I think the important thing is to choose a temperament in the puppy that compliments what you already have at home. I don't necessarily believe in the male and female rule. If you have say a more timid style puppy, don't go bringing home the social butterfly puppy that likes to be a little dominant and vice versa. As a general rule. There is the social butterfly pup in a litter, and the introvert pup/s in a litter. Then there are those in between. Pick one to match your lifestyle. It may be the opposite sex to what you were originally looking at.

Oh really???? Buggar!! Canberra airport is an absolute shamozzle at the moment. We flew two 8 week old pups with Qantas from Adelaide recently and I'm not lying when I say it took Qantas/AAE over an hour to get them from the terminal to us. Something about it being late at night blah, blah, blah and that they wait until all the late night flights arrive before they bring any of the animals over to AAE blah, blah, blah. In the meantime, pups were just sitting on the tarmac. A little bit of jumping up and down from me saw one of the AAE guys get in his work van and drive over to the Qantas terminal and pick them up himself Sorry Mystiqview, I was wrong That's ok. I only found out the rules late last year when I tried to book some pups to Canberra via dogtainers using Virgin. It was Dogtainers who said that Virgin does not fly pets any more into Canberra. I had another pup fly to Launceston. I had to use Virgin for them and not Qantas. Was a right royal pain in the butt taking two pups to two freight terminals in Brisbane. I did manage to get them at the airport at roughly the same time for flights. I had always preferred to fly Virgin. I had a bad experience getting a pup up here once via AAE and have been hesitant to use them again. But as I found out last year, it seems it now depends on which airport the dog/pup is flying into. Also found it pays to shop around. I have had some big differences in prices between Dogtainers and Jet Pets as well as which airline carrier you choose.

I find Virginblue is cheaper than Qantas. Qantas charge by cube and weight. Virgin charge by weight. Jetstar I believe to not take animals. Check with Dogtainers or Jet Pets as some airports do not take animals by certain airlines. I know Canberra for instance will only accept animals via qantas/AAE.

I know in my breed some are taking their time placing some pups. You could try that free website but be prepared to filter through the crap. You also have to place your ad daily so it is up on the top of the list.

It is a fine line between running a business and a hobby. I think of it a business purely for the sake of customer service. You do not need to necessarily have the product the customer is wanting (aka a puppy) but that still does not excuse breeders from being rude to their customers. As enthusiasts, I think it is our role to assist and educate those who are looking at entering our ranks. I know some people will never be educated nor will want to be. It is no longer a case of the mongrels being either sold cheaply or given away. It is run as a business for these people with their prices in direct competition for pedigree health tested stock. With recent exposure on various documentaries about the "health" of pedigree dogs, only fuels those who breed mongrels with more ammunition to why their crosses are better than our pedigree dogs. You get a new puppy buyer who may not know anything in contact with a rude breeder or a number of breeders who refuse to answer their emails then they are more than likely going to go the the BYB who is all helpful and keen to assist. That is not something I or am sure any other pedigree dog owner/breeder wants. We are trying to improve our image in the eyes of "joe public".

I register all my puppies around 6-8 weeks. I have up to this point sold all the puppies by this time and have been able to register all the puppies into the new owner's names. ETA: It is not hard or difficult to do a transfer to the new owner if the pup is registered to you as yo do not have a buyer at the time of registration. It is also not hard to transfer between Limit/Main registrations. To do limit, you get owner to sign the form and that is sent into the CCCQ along with the ped papers. To go the other way, a mutual letter is done "authorising" the transfer from Limit to Main. (For the example of a pet dog that has turned into something worthy of breeding). There are certainly options for breeders to stash their puppies and still be legal. Some don't do it because it's EFFORT> It is also a requirement in Qld to pass on the papers to the owner, and the papers should reflect the same address/owner as the where the dog resides. I know of breeders who stash their puppies in family pet homes for possible breeding back later on. I know for some the pups are not transferred to the new owners whether in co-ownership or limit to start with to be brought back to main registration later. All that is not allowed by CCC laws. For me, I co-own any pup that I want the possibility back for breeding. The last thing I want is someone with a grudge against me to file a complaint for me to have to answer to. It is about protecting my butt! If the owner decides to desex the dog/bitch. So be it. A name on the paper is not going to stop them. At least as a co-own they cannot legally breed from it. Again if they decide to BYB their dog before or after I get my chance(s), then nothing I can do it stop it either. I know of another breeder up Nth Queensland who is a judge, and was selling purebreds (and listing they do not come with papers) on another free website. They also breed registered dogs here. Both against the rules here in Qld.

Went through something similar last year. There is a "breeder" here doing pretty much the same. We had to write a stat dec and send it in. The CCC would not take en email. It would also be good if you can get better "proof" of this breeder doing what you claim. A post like that on a forum is not a good start. If you have personal emails to and from the breeder then that is better than a public post. Unfortunately when the stat decs for us were sent in. the breeder was already suspended for other issues, so the CCC cannot act until they become financial again (IE once their suspension is lifted).

Greytmate. empty your inbox pls

Rowan is the best. He is a vet as well as highly qualified in chiropractics. He is also open minded to alternative therapies. He is the only one I will recommend.

Then how can they advertise a zero euthanase policy/rate?

The EIC test for BC has not been developed yet? How do you know your dog is affected? Just because there is no DNA test, does not mean something exists. Jemma was born 2001 and started showing signs mid 2002. Nearly nine years ago now. Um.. Dogs exercised.. dogs collapsed. I did say in my original post, it was labelled akin to lactic acid build up.. Hmm.. When it was studied at UQ. It was not called EIC back then. Just because there is no DNA test, does not mean the condition does not exist through documentation and studies by other vets. At the time, there were correlations to what mine, and some other dogs we knew of at the time, both show dog and working dogs who all suffered the same symptoms when exercised. These symptoms were similar to instances in the United States and Canada where a "name" was first put to it. What ever it was. No one will know. She died in 2009 from something else. However the symptoms seen back then, was similar to what is now known as EIC.

Just one question... What happens to the animals that AWL CANNOT rehome?? WHO euthanases those??? Someone else... So AWL does look squeeky clean... They don't do the deed. Someone else does.

I used to have a BC with EIC. At the time, it was pretty much unheard of here in Australia (About 7 years ago). The only real research and "labelling" came from the Canada and the United States. I knew what it was at the time as a good friend of mine had a working BC with the Uni here called as Lactic Acid build up. Their description of the condition (now known as EIC) is it is akin to distance swimmers who take less oxygen into their system, causing the lactic acid to build up in the muscles, causing the collapse. His dog (and mine) were subjected to temperatures before physical activity, during and after. When he was working his sheep, he would keep a 20L bucket by the gate incase his dog started to suffer the wobbly back end and "over heat". My girl, could get it from concentrating too hard. If I was say in the loungeroom at night trying to get her do to tricks and she was concentrating very hard, she would for a better description "forget to breathe". One first sign would be her tongue would go from a nice healthy paler pink to a very dark blood red/purple colour. She would start to lose co-ordination in her rear if you continued then finally collapse. She could also collapse from a walk in the evenings (I walked her once to help find a friend's dog who escaped about 730-8pm one evening. It was warm, but not excessive despite being summer. I can agree with Vicky's comment, it does not have to be HOT to induce collapse. Things I noticed to help prevent attacks: Keep any excess weight off the dog If you exercise, anything that involves water - swimming, beach/dam. Keep exercise short and not during the heat of the day or when its hot. If you start to notice the tongue going dark - STOP! and cool the stomach/underside of the dog as quickly as you can The working BC had a smooth coat, Jemma a long coat. Coat length in the two dogs did not seem to make a difference. (To me) I also noticed, that if she had one attack say today.. if I did not stop her, another attack could come on quite quickly. IMO: I think EIC is currently found in at least two breeds. So could it be in more breeds?