Mystiqview

I don't care where the dog is advertised. It is always a case of "buyer beware". I know of a pedigree dog breeder who falsified health stats and posted them around the forum and web. They did not like the lab result, so changed it to suit their requirements. At the end of the though, if a breeder wants to do this, then they are only opening up themselves for legal action. However I think it is a good lesson learnt by anyone considering a dog. A warning for anyone purchasing a dog.. Please make sure you see the "REAL" documents and ask for a copy of them. No use taking the word of any "breeder" that all is in order. People lie. Known fact. In my puppy packs, I supply certified copies of all relevant health checks done on the parents.

If all you have is human conditioner, a dollop of that shaken in a spray bottle is fine. You can buy detangler sprays if you want to go to the expense. Wide tooth comb is good in pantaloons. But sometimes found the rake good there as well.

With regards to Pyo. How long is a piece of string? Some lines within dogs seem more susceptible than others. I don't think it is necessarily specific breed related and more breeds get it more than others. It is a risk and it is something that should be considered.

I replied somewhat in the bc thread. For the dead hair behind the ears, the best is to pinch it with one hand, say between thumb and index finger and with the other just lightly pluck out the dead hair. A fine toothed comb is also useful here as well as a single sided thinning scissor. (double's take too much out at a time and it can look "hacked" very quickly. Coat kings/Furminators if used incorrectly will not only strip undercoat, but also top coat. You also have to be careful NOT to keep in one spot and drag the "blades" onto the skin as they can cause cuts or abrasions on the skin itself. Rakes will also do this. Rakes can be good for the more wirery hair of the tail to thin them down. Again, be careful as they can cut the hair, so you are more cutting it than taking the dead hair out. When using the above, you really need to part the hair at the skin, brush the undercoat, then do the next bit. There is no real "quick" way of doing it, as each part of the coat needs to be separated and brushed. I find one of the best tools is a good solid pin brush. Those "Kong Zoom Grooms" are not bad either. Warm baths are helpful. The warm water assists in them blowing coat quicker. You do not need to add soap to each wash. The warm water by itself will assist. The dryer: some dogs love it, some will tolerate it. When you use the dryer, some say to start at the head and work your way back. I find starting with the dryer on low and doing the pants, the body and working towards the head will work better. When you get to the head, use one hand to fold over the ear (similar to putting your hands over your ears) to prevent the air from blowiing in and the noise. Once the dog starts to get used to the dryer, you can turn it up faster if your model allows you too. I have one with a dial which I can turn right down low for puppies and up higher. Some only come with two speeds. Plenty of praise and food if they will take it is good. When you are first starting off, a second pair of hands to hold and reassure the dog can be useful.

I can understand why dogs are better than people. You can call them idiots and they just look at you as if you told them they were the best "person" in the world Even after a bad day, they still love you Even after you scold them, they still love you and hold no grudges They are more loyal than many people, especially those in the dog world They are now starting to cost as much as children to keep and raise. You don't get into trouble for locking your dog up if they have been naughty They only demand three things; Food, pats and your attention On a cold night, they are "portable" electric blankets

:thumbsup to the bolded bits I think in a few cases, the "research" is not done on lines even here in Australia. I was talking to someone the other week who has been in the breed for ages. They even said they did not believe many of the new breeders are doing this research. I was talking to another person in the breed, and they said "great to talk to someone who has researched the lines and know the good and the bad points associated with the lines and also genetics." (I took that as a compliment.) It is imperative all who venture into breeding research the lines they are using. For each good point a particular animal has, it may also be carrying 3 bad points which you can double up on. One of those three bad points may have a DNA test associated to it where you can get a quantitative answer to its status. The other two, are ticking time bombs waiting to go off if given the right genetic make-up. This is what is starting to happen in some of the lines within the Border Collie. People are ignoring the warnings and advice from those who have been around before and know of these issues, and still doubling up on certain animals with genetic concerns. I am sure this will be the same in all breeds, particular if there is a popular sire/bitch in there carrying a trait that is liked. A point I brought up years ago, "it is amazing what you find out AFTER you breed a litter with an animal with a problem". I had one pup with a deformed eye. At birth, he was late coming and his placenta had broken and I had revived him. I put this pup to sleep at 4 weeks. Reason: When he walked he would often totter to one side or favour one side. This could have been due to his birthing and possible brain damage from lack of oxygen. It could have been something more. The eye, at first I thought it had not opened properly. At the PM, the vet said it was not formed properly and was in a way deformed. A few weeks later I was talking to the person who owned the grandsire of my dam about the eye. They said, "oh yes, XYZ had produced that before"..(WTF!!!) They casually wrote it off as if it did not matter. There is nothing wrong in my opinion to breeding good quality pets. After all, even show breeders, where do you think 90% of the puppies end up? Even those breeding for sports, the ones that don't have the drive or whatever to go to sporting homes, end up as someone's pet. However, there is still no excuse why anyone who breeds should ignore or turn away from the breed standard. Those breeding for sports, should be breeding MORE to the breed standard than away. You cannot have a good sporting dog if the structure and conformation of the animal is not there. Pat Hastings even states in her lectures and books, the sporting dog should be MORE conformed than those of the show dog because of the extra pressures and stresses placed on joints and limbs associated with the sporting activity. The pet buyer is entitled to have the same respect and right to approach a breeder and expect a healthy puppy and the support and hopefully the knowledge and skill of a breeder who has done the research, not only into the breed but into the problems within the lines. This is what hopefully sets the ANKC breeder apart from those breeding purebreds without the knowledge and information contained within a pedigree if one so was inclined to do their research. There is nothing wrong with breeding for the pet market. But those who choose to do so, should still take into the same considerations as those who breed for the show ring and performance arenas.

Define only to "improve the breed" (How, what, when and then define "improve") Quantify "eliminate hereditary diseases". In some cases, this can take generations to complete with each generation consisting of how many years? Is there a DNA test for EACH and EVERY disease in the breed. If not, then how can you GUARANTEE you are "eliminating hereditary diseases". If you are breeding say for an example in my breed of CEA carrier/affected to CEA Carrier/affected, then obviously no you are not. However you if are breeding CEA Carrier to CEA Clear (an acceptable mating by breed club/ANKC) - then good chance you are trying to eliminate the instances of affected puppies as statistically only 50% will be carrier while still maintaining a diverse gene pool. A lot of hereditary diseases do not have a DNA test and you still do not know if the animal carries the defective gene/s. Vaccination/Microchipping: I agree with Jed - Is it only a few breeders, the majority and is it your state or all states. Accusations like this need actual proof. I know on some free websites, some ads do not include "microchipped", but unless you buy a puppy from them and they are in fact not chipped, then there is the "proof". The last two: As someone else in this thread stated, how do you know the "parasite" was not picked up at the new owner's house, on the way there or the breeder. Dietary requirements of the breed: How often in here someone is Barf all the way and the next person is dry food all the way. Who is right? REALLY???? Some breeders don't like giving puppy food for any longer than the pup is 12 weeks, others like it to continue until the pup is 12 months. Who is right. The person taking your puppy does not like your brand of dog food and chooses another. Who is wrong? I know from my own personal experience, I give a bag of premium food with each puppy I sell along with what the dog has been fed since birth. Once that is used up, they ignore the advice given and go to what ever brand suits them. It is very easy for people now to go "I was not told that" when they were. People are too easy to point the finger elsewhere and not take responsibility for their own actions.

Why don't you ring Virgin freight and ask them?? When Virgin's freight terminal used to be in near the luggage collection at Brisbane Airport, they allowed you to take dog and crate into the terminal. If Melbourne has a similar thing, then they may allow it otherwise it will be the same as other places that only assistance/guide dogs are allowed. The best is to take the dog straight to freight terminal as you also have to book at least one and a half hours before your flight is due anyway then go onto the terminal yourself. Qantas also all do animal transport, however they do charge more for animals. I do know some airlines do not do freight of animals through certain airport. (EG. know Canberra for sending a dog via freight I can only use Qantas/AAE Express {who handle their freight section})

It is one thing to bring in legislation. You can legislate to the hilt. Makes no difference if you cannot enforce it. You need someone or some body to police the legislation. There lies the problem. There is no resource allocated to the policing of the current legislation. I worked in a local council in animal management. We did not have the resources to go out there and hit these people and follow up. Our own council staff were advising on the intranet designer BYB pups who were not microchipped for $800 + (some were not even registered with council - oops). Then they did not want to take it to court because this would cause controversy and the local members did not want that - not when there was an election year coming up. So introducing more will not solve the issue. It only REALLY effects the ones who are already doing the right thing and abiding by the legislation. The rest who do not care and already breaking the law will continue until they are caught. Again while the penalties are there in the Act, they are not being imposed. So really... what is the deterrent?????

I would recommend getting her desexed about a month after her season. This will give things time to shrink back to a normalish state. She can be desexed while in season. It is a bigger operation, costs more and carries more risk, some vets will not elect to do it during this time, but it can be done. If you live in Brisbane/Ipswich area, I can recommend the AWL vet clinic at West Ipswich. They are a bit cheaper than many vets and do a good job. I had one of my ex show dogs/breeders done there and they did a nice clean operation with a small scar. If she is worried about surgery, some vets do offer pain meds before, during and after the surgery. Some people say with a coated breed, it is better to let them to have a season first so they keep the "lush" coat. Once a dog has a season, really they are now at least sexually mature. Mentally mature, well that depends on the individual and breed. Second season or third season will not really make a difference. It is a wives tale that letting them have a litter first will settle them down. Some bitches never settle down even after 4 litters (am thinking of an agility bitch who is still just as full on as she was at 7 months). Seasons can bring on hormone changes. Depending on your bitch, they can range from aggressiveness to sookiness (PMT like humans suffer). Yes there is an increased risk of Pyrometra. Sometimes the bitch can have "phantom" pregnancies and go right though up to producing milk and labour, even though there is no puppies in there and not even had sex. Of course there is the risk of the bitch getting pregnant. Dogs and bitches will do almost anything to get out during that time. It is natural. If she gets her desexed as well, it will be cheaper dog registration with the local council. She can take the dog anywhere at anytime without having to lock her up and worry about her getting pregnant. Many boarding kennels now will not take a bitch in season (or even an entire dog over 6 months of age) if your sister needs to go away for a holiday. Desexing is really the responsible thing to do.

For those who do not care about papers, health testing or anything else, post ad's like this onto the free websites and are really no competition. But at the end of the day, these are the ones we need the welfare organisations to start targeting!!!!! or this:

Janba, I thought you would know having connections to someone who was duddled by them. :D That case aside.I know of other cases where people have taken what you would have thought cut and dry cases to the CC only to have them bury their heads in the sand or take the other side who is the offending party. It makes you wonder sometimes what we pay membership for.

At least if some ANKC breeders also advertise on the likes of Gumtree or Petlink, then hopefully some unsuspecting puppy buyer may be able to compare a fully health tested puppy with papers etc to a "purebred" mutt who may if you are lucky be vaccinated or wormed. If the price is similar, I am hoping (maybe falsely) the person will choose the ANKC breeder who is giving more for their dollar. I get puppy buyers who enquire that know nothing about the breed, the problems, what they should be looking at paying and what they are getting for their money. If breeders take the time to explain, there is a good chance they will look at ANKC rather than "purebred". Some still think papers just mean a snotty nosed uppercrust attitude for showing only. Not understand all the other work many ANKC breeders put into their breeding program to hopefully ensure quality animals are produced.

They can't act if the person is no longer a member as its not illegal to breed dogs. I realise this. Unbeknown to the second group of people who put in the stat decs for serious breaches, (of which I was one) the breeder had already just been suspended indefinitely by the Canine body and they could not do anything further until they lifted their suspension and/or member rejoined (if suspension lasted the financial period of membership). In a nutshell, it was for incorrectly registering a litter to a dam who was not the dam of the litter. The real dam was a bitch in co-own whom the co-owner had not approved the litter. So the person used another bitch in their yard "of similar bloodlines" and registered the litter on that bitch instead. There were requests to have the progeny parent tested. There were also some other claims of animals not being returned after lease periods were up. Effectively stolen.

Situations change. A "waiting list" is only as good as the money in the bank. I have had puppy buyers oh so serious,I want one of your puppies, prepared to wait (8 weeks) only to turn around a week or less later and say they bought one from XYZ. There are permament ads on DOL by some breeders for puppies. They have litters on the go all year round. If registered breeders do not advertise in the same places as the BYB's then how can we as registered breeders compete on an even footing. The canine bodies really do little or nothing to promote pedigree dogs out in the community. Only those with big wallets can afford to advertise in their journals. And that only goes to CCC members. Most of our pets go to mum, dad and the 2.5 children families. As long as the registered breeders are doing the right thing, then who cares where they advertise? As long as those puppies go to loving good homes and are not exploited.

There is another breeder whom a number of us put in stat decs for. THey were suspended from CCCQ from others already putting in stat decs. The problem then is, the CCCQ cannot act on the new round of stat decs as the person is not a member... Anything then like this... CCCQ say it is a "civil matter" and do not have any part of it.

Have you thought also the old woman may have been there and done that, and now wants some peace and quiet? Maybe she was ill and a small child who would probably more than likely cry on some part of the journey, upset her as she may have wanted to try and nap? If a child sat next to me on the plane,I would be pretty upset too.. I don't fly well and someone bouncing around in a seat, and being noisy (even just non stop talking) would set my teeth to edge.. Same would go for an adult. Why is it, some people with kids MUST force their love of kids onto those who dislike them? Same as some who HAVE to foist religion down the throats of those who do not belive in religion. It goes both ways.

Not maternal. Pure and simple. I fought to get "fixed" at 30. Admitingly I had a medical reason to fight for the procedure. As for kids.. Some are good. Some are obnoxious little brats and the parents are not much better either. There is no excuse for bad manners. If the parents are bad, good chance the kids are too. Who else can they learn off?

When I worked for a local council, we had our own intranet where we could advertise stuff. The number of council workers advertising BYB crosses which were NOT microchipped or older than 8 weeks, were mindboggling. I worked in animal laws with them for a time before getting another job in another section. I just could not belive the complacency. And from a council with a very vocal local member on local animal control. ETA: When I tried to microchip a litter of pups at 6 weeks for DNA testing in 2008, I couldn't because the stupid law at the time said not until 8 weeks.. ARRGGGHHH A 6 week border collie puppy can be heavier than an adult cat!

Saw a nice big one on the road at 3am this morning on the way to work. If not for the fact is was raining, and dark, I may have stopped to see what it was. Hope Murphy gets better soon

Mita, I know someone who did go through with the proper chanels with Dogs Qld. They really had a cut and dry case. Yet CCCQ went back on their own constitution and favoured the other party.

When I first got my breeders permit with the local council (before amalgation): To be eligible: Current member of CCCQ with recognised prefix Signatures of all bounding neighbours to my property not objecting to me breeding dogs Apply for the permit with specified fee and be ready for an inspection by a council officer This involved him coming out, seeing where I was planning on whelping the puppies, the fences and yards and/or any kennels met council regulations (ie buildings off boundary fences etc), how I disposed of faeces and how I kept food stuffs free from vermin. Also to check the dogs were registered and appeared in good health. Second part of having this permit was a yearly inspection by council officers to guarantee I was keepign up with the above. While some may see this as the big stick.. Personally I did not mind. I knew I was doing the right thing and it was good council came out to make sure I met with the standards laid down. (Also any one else planning on breeding were also hopefully doing the right thing). Brisbane City Council: You have to be a member of Dogs Qld with a registered prefix. Hand over your $180 and there is your permit. No inspection. You can keep 4 dogs on the property by right as long as they did not create a nuisence. I had a 600sqm property. Where I was I had 5 acres and were allowed to keep 6 dogs by right. Some councils do not have a breeder permit, although they are looking at devising one, but have other tough dog laws and permits for more than 2 dogs are hard to get. In recent years in my breed and I have said this in other threads, there is an increasing number of ANKC registered breeders who are out there breeding inferior dogs based on colour. Why?? Coloured border collies can fetch twice as much as a black/white. Not because they are special or better any thing noble like that.. Because they are a different colour. They are using inferior dogs, not health testing properly and pumping out litter after litter and then rehoming the bitch and doing the same. If they cannot keep the dog, they "foster" it out with the proviso that it returns for X number of litters. Sometimes even charging the person a full sale amount for the priviledge of having one of their crappy dogs. Only to lose the bitch for up to 4-6 months while she is put into whelp. Again Why?? We cannot keep everything we breed to breed on for, so many breeder "stash" dogs in pet homes. Many breeders do not charge the puppy "buyer" for a stash arrangement, and some will offer incentives to them to be a party to this. It also keeps the numbers down on your property, so if you are ever inspected, you always have your "quota" of animals there and are not over numbers, while still maintaining a healthy breeding program. Ever wonder why some breeders in the puppy listings can have a permanent ad on there for puppies? When I first joined DOL back in 2002. It was much different to now. The classifieds were decent breeders and most had pretty good ethics. Now, as all you have to have to post an ad on there is ANKC prefix (and pay a membership for extra dog profiles). It used to be good advertising. Now, it has been taken over by the colour breeders and bad breeders advertising poor quality litter after litter. Any new breeder coming up is pretty much a colour breeder using the same bloodlines of inferior stock and doubling up on the same dogs with the same genetic faults and the poor unsuspecting puppy buyer is none the wiser until a few years down the track. I recently went to Sydney to mate my bitch. I stayed with a friend who has this almighty soft spot for chocolate border collies. All good sense and reason goes out the window when there is a chocolate border collie on offer. Don't get me wrong, she just spent over $10,000 on a dog because of immune related health issues. The dog is now blind, but alive. She bought a puppy from one of these colour breeders last year. It is currently 9 months old. She bought it for agility as she is keen into this sport and her two older dogs are up in Masters. At nine months old, this dog is dumb as. Thick as 10 bricks. It has massive missing pigment from its nose (which should be a solid colour), and it has slipping hocks so badly, you only have to touch them lightly and they fall inwards. No agility dog at all. It is also closely bred on some of the dogs behind her other one who suffered immune issues.. There is a good chance it will suffer something in the future too. She approached the breeder with these. THe breeder knew at the beginning the dog was for agility and advertises her dogs are suitable for this (presuming here they know what they are looking at structurally). She will take the dog back, and replace the dog with a pup from one of her FIVE (yes FIVE) current litters of puppies ON THE GROUND. The new pup is a merle which apparently is a better pedigree than the chocolate one and the breeder is wanting an extra $700 for the dog, PLUS to pay for its vaccination, microchip and worming (not to mention freight from Qld to Sydney for new puppy and freight of existing dog from Syd - Qld). The original purchase price of chocolate dog was $1200 on Main Register. If the dog was to be sold and not returned to breeder, the breeder expected $200 back from the sale of the dog. The dog was not to be onsold on the main registration (however it was sold on MR in the first place??). The buyer paid up front for this dog as a puppy the full $1200 plus freight. Similar stories I have heard of many of the other colour breeders operating up here. What does the CCCQ do about it?? Nothing... Another bitch who is 4 years old is currently up for sale on the mature dogs list. She has already had 4 litters and the breeder is asking $800 for her not desexed. Given we cannot breed a litter until the bitch is 12 months of age... In 3 years - 4 litters. Also take into consideration we are not supposed to do more than 2 litters per 18 months. Is this not puppy farming???? This same breeder also is producing animals with significant pigment loss on the nose, and if you look at the photos of some of the puppies on their webpage, they look sickly and underfed. Black/white animals should have full pigment by 8 weeks of age. Again this breeder is only interested in breeding colour and not quality. What is quality? They obviously believe they are producing quality pets.. But where is a "standard" on general health quality.I know there is the breed standard and this is what we should be (subjectively) breeding towards. If this is the calibre of the new ANKC breeders, no wonder the old ethical ones are getting out.

This still does not target or get those operating out of back yards selling on free internet sites and the weekend papers. These already pump out puppies - individually not as grand as the large puppy farmers, but collectively a considerable number of puppies from these back yard establishments still find their way into the pet shops etc. These back yard breeders fly under all government radars currently. If you live in Brisbane and a few other council areas, you need to have a "breeders permit" to breed. The only way you get this is to have a registered breeders prefix current with Dogs Qld.. Most of these back yard breeders are not registered with Dogs Qld. Some animals may be pedigree, some maybe on Main and some on Limit. The others are just "purebred". Breeding "purebred" puppies which are not vaccinated, wormed or in particular Microchipped - something against the Animal Management Act (Cats and Dogs) 2008. Dogs Qld sent out a link to a government survey a week or so ago, which mind you ends 5pm Qld time today.

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Fingers Crossed here 25th April. (TBC)