Mystiqview

I thought we had established that white boxers were more prone to problems, and that it takes a while to discover if the pups are deaf. Also that they cannot be registered and cannot be sold by registered breeders? We don't even know that there are boxer breeders in Australia that are breeding and culling puppies these days. Save your sympathy for the poor dogs that suffer for their lifetime as a result of careless and irresponsible breeding, not the ones that avoid suffering. . Well Said. Sometimes being a breeder is hard and we have to make hard choices. This is why some of us are able to be breeders and others do not have what it takes to be breeders. I applaud the ones who do the right thing and cringe at those who don't. Despite what the tree hugging greenies think, we do care and it does pain us to put dogs and puppies down, but sometimes it is better done early than later.

I agree but in the case of boxers white boxers should never be born and they could still allow white boxers to be used for breeding as long as they restrict what they can breed with. If they put the restrictions on - no flashy to flashy - no white to flashy then there never would be any white boxers and no - one would need to be concerned. It makes no sense to me to allow flashy to flashy and expect them to make them disappear when all they need to do is restrict that mating and never get them. If that is all it takes Steve, why don't they do it. I just don't get the controlling body sometimes. We cannot do Merle to Merle mating for this reason.

Wuffles, Excess white in a border collie does not always precipitate deafness. It increases the risk of it happening and in some lines, it seems to occur more than others. I myself have produced half white face border collies from two solid colours. I BAER tested them at 6 weeks as I am lucky enough to live near the UNI who has the machine to do it. Siblings: Parents: The baby photo you posted, while hard to see does show facial pigment.It does take a lot longer for pigment to come through and what Steve says is true. Some freckles and other body pigment may not come in until they are an adult. I have a red.white boy here who did not get red freckles on his nose until he was nearly 2 1/2 years old, yet he has really good pigment elsewhere. Please also do not confuse white coat pigmentation with skin pigmentation as this is different. Using the same example, in simple terms the red/white border collie can be liver skin pigment (as often seen in the nose pigment) or black pigmented, yet still be a dark or light colour pigment in the body. Ultimately, it is the breeder's choice whether they wish to euthanise deaf puppies or risk placing that burden onto the community. We are really stuck between a catch 22 situation of "damned if we do" or "Damned if we don't". We get howled down for producing puppies with issues that may not have been forseen or helped, and we also get howled down if we decide to euthanise these puppies and be responsible for the animals we breed. ETA: Red/whites can be born near white at birth and darken with age. Coat and some body pigments can take time to come through.

I had to use one when I was in Sydney recently. I stayed at a friend's place and little did I know she was flea infested. I think it was at a Pet Barn or something. The flea rinse in the bath, smelled like Fidos. It did not run through the bath long, I can tell you that much after a minute or so on "Wash", you could not smell it, so it was just pumping water. The dryer did warm up with use. I have a coated breed, so takes a little longer to blow dry them. The dryer I have here at home, does have a heater in it and after a term of use, they do get quite hot.

Then lets ban the breeding of all dogs. Let's only let the irresponsible puppy farmers breed dogs. Obviously they do it better than registered breeders. The point still is and always SHOULD be: "Why breed from two dogs who you know/or will increase the likelihood to produce problems" when it the chances can be lessened with a little thought or research. Why increase the risk of putting the "problem" there in the first place?? Mystiqueview, I *think* the two dogs you are speaking of were mated, dumped and then rescued with the puppies subsequently re-homed. I suspect there was very little thought or research involved. Spotted Devil, *Bold* - I get that. I am not so naive to BYB's and their don't care attitude. Needless to say there are some Registered breeders who are no better than BYB and some (in minority) BYB who should look at being registered breeders. I think there are a number of sub-threads going on in here. Bartok's post about just because they rescued a white boxer who was not deaf, is not necessarily the norm. Granted, that dog is more than likely from a BYB litter and they did not give any thought or reason to their mating - accident or otherwise. It is great that dog had found a home and is not deaf. However, the comment "of put them in rescue for them to rehome" is disgusting. Then to say "lets ban all dogs who can produce deaf white puppies" is equally ludicrous. I know of black non white factored dogs producing excess white in offspring. So really, to stop the white puppy, then it should be phrased, lets ban breeding all dogs - as unless you DNA test for EVERYTHING (which is impossible) you cannot stop it. From my take on this thread, any who deliberately mate white to white is not a registered breeder as it is against the breed standard for Boxers. THe last underlying thread that has come through this thread is breeding two dogs together with the knowing fact it could produce deaf white puppies (amongst other issues). This is where research of lines SHOULD come in and caution taken.

Then lets ban the breeding of all dogs. Let's only let the irresponsible puppy farmers breed dogs. Obviously they do it better than registered breeders. The point still is and always SHOULD be: "Why breed from two dogs who you know/or will increase the likelihood to produce problems" when it the chances can be lessened with a little thought or research. Why increase the risk of putting the "problem" there in the first place??

If some of the statistics of what has been posted up here already by those in the breed are true, then it is good Mia is not deaf and good on you for rescuing her. But..... Why breed from something that is recorded and known to produce issues? That is a little irresponsible?? Why breed from something that increases the likelihood of producing issues? Shouldn't you be breeding to LESSEN the likelihood? Boxers are not my breed, however deafness does occur in border collies and is also related to the white gene and white factoring. Why breed from two dogs knowingly carrying excess white to produce the potential of blind/deaf puppies? Why put out there the burden on someone else to look after a problem that could have been avoided in the outset?

Thanks Missymoo. It was certainly an interesting mating this time around. I was concerned she would not take. We drove to Sydney for the dog. Prog tested her here on Friday and was 5.1. Did it again on Sunday and she was 4.55. Got a really good mating on Tuesday (20 minutes). The dog was only half interested. Nothing then. Prog tested again on Thursday and she spiked at 22. They were still not interested. I needed to get back to Brisbane so we did an AI to cover her according to the science. So it is certainly reassuring it has taken and with 7 confirmed. (with maybe one or two under the ribs)

Personally I think on the whole it has improved. Even in breeds where it is not compulsory to hip score, it is becoming the norm and breeders are doing it through peer pressure. It is disappointing that some registered breeders still refuse to hip score. However, you have to consider I also think the breed averages are skewed. When we breed a litter of puppies say of around 8 in a litter. The breeder keeps only one or two and may sell one or two to a show home. Depending on what the end result is of these puppies, of this litter of 8, only one to three may then be hip scored, leaving 5 puppies unscored. Multiply this by all the litters that are produced within a breed, then there is a good percentage that are really unscored and are not contributing to the breed average. When the AVA calculates the breed average, if these unscored dogs are not taken into consideration, and they are taking their average from only the scored and submitted (also don't forget that some scorers were not contributing to the overall breed average for awhile), then of course the breed average will be skewed to what it is realistic out there. recently when redesigning a webpage for the club, I came across this link which I believe is good in explaining the scoring system. LINK

I agree with the others re genetic study on what your dog is carrying. Just because it comes from what you perceive is a good pedigree and her breeder claims is a good pedigree, may not be in truth the complete case. How many times do you read or even see in the classifieds (even on DOL) "Excellent pedigree". Upon closer inspection, when you look at some of those pedigrees and you know what is actually behind some of those "prominent" dogs, there are health issues waiting to surface and are quite serious. Breeders will not be open and forthcoming in telling you what is behind the lines. You need to not only look at direct parents/grandparents but cousins and step cousins. White puppies may be the least of your worries. As another boxer breeder pointed out, you can alleviate this by breeding to a solid colour rather than a flashy colour. And maybe for your first litter this will be the best course of action to go. It lets you chew the fat and minimises the risk of at least one known problem. The last thing you want to be known for on your first litter is breeding a litter of white or unhealthy puppies. Do this, and you may find doors will shut for future stud or ownership with the prominent breeders. It is a very fine balance. There are a lot of new registered breeders coming onto the scene. In my breed I can safely say, there are not enough who are prepared to do the research into lines, pedigrees or spend the time finding out what is behind their dogs. They claim to have excellent breeding, not knowing any better and believing the somewhat tale told by the breeder who they bought their dog from. Just because a person may be the breed for 10 or 20 years, does not necessarily make them ethical, good or anything else. They may be big into showing or something, but that does not always make them the best breeder in the world. A show champion can be attained through a series of 6 point "show up" challenge points in out of the way shows. You are right, there are enough dogs being put to sleep because of bad breeders and bad owners. I myself have put to sleep puppies at 3 days, 3 weeks and one even at 12 months because I was duped by a bad owner. I managed to rescue it back, but the damage was done. I could have rehomed that dog, but in all honesty, it would probably have ended back up in a pound and be carelessly put to sleep and dumped. (I know how pounds work, I have worked in one as a council employee). I have had fading puppies who I have had to supplement every hour who have died at 3 days. I had one puppy which I revived at birth, to put down at 3 weeks due what was suspected a brain issue, maybe from lack of oxygen from birth. Sometimes it is better to put to sleep early, than putting out there a possible defective puppy which you can and possibly WILL be sued for. (Don't laugh - it has already happened in my breed). Breeding is hard. Hard choices are sometimes made, sometimes for the better of the litter and sometimes for the better of the overall breed. It is great the rescuers what to rescue everything that is put out there, but sometimes, sorry to say putting to sleep is sometimes the best thing for the dog. As for BAER testing, I have BAER tested one litter of pups where I had half white faces (no deafness thankfully). Even in Brisbane, there is only one place that has the machine. Those who live outside of Brisbane, have harder times getting their puppies BAER tested. In some breeds, like Aussie Shepherds, where merle to merle matings are permissible. You get deaf blind puppies and also kinked tails and I have seen even piggy tails. I know breeders who have put down the deaf/blind puppies, and they do not find it an easy or pleasant choice. But still do it. With the taildocking, it is now hard to dock the tails of the natural bob tailed animals who have kinked or twisted tails. It can be done, but trying to find a vet who is willing to do it "not for cosmetic" but for the betterment of the dog is hard. (The dog is only done at the kink to remove the kink if severe enough). I agree with the others. If your dog has a dietary issue, and while you have formulated a food that gives her relief, she is probably not the best bitch to start your foundation on. Genetically, she already has an issue, so you are already started behind the 8 ball. That is providing, she passes the rest of her health screening tests. Recent documentaries did not show the boxer in a positive light. Why breed from an inferior dog? She may have the best pedigree in the world, but still suffering from genetic issues that should not be propagated from. I think in Victoria, and other breeders from there would be able to confirm this, you cannot breed from a dog with a known genetic issue?? Something to do with legislation?? I am sure there are many who will and do get around this (as in my breed), but with the way the climate is going on sound breeding practices, I would be striving to produce the best there is possible.

Depends on the council and rangers. Key words "Aggressive tendencies", "lunged" and "felt threatened" and "not the first time". You will need to give the council as much information as you can about the type of the dog, what time it happened and where it came from and went too after the incident. Much easier if the dog came out of a specific property, however you cannot always guarantee that is where the dog lives as it could have roamed into that property in the first place. (or half live there - ie, by It's choice rather than the people actually own it). If you can take a photo of the dog on your camera. Make sure you remain on public land (ie footpath) and if possible take a photo of the letterbox and front of house showing the property number, and also if possible, dog on that property. Try to keep to the facts and do lot let your emotion get the better of you when you make your complaint. These are all things the ranger will(well should) be doing as well in the course of the investigation. The council will want to protect their butts from being sued as well if they had a report of an aggressive dog on the loose and they did nothing to investigate.

For inside. You can get (or make) a "Belly Band" This is a simple band that goes around the middle of the dog over his willy. Place a sanitary napkin there to catch any wetness. It is a training aid, rather than a fix. When they go to pee in the house, they will pee into the napkin causing a "wet willy". Nothing beats reinforcement, praise, reward and regular trips outside for pee.

I have used lino. I tend to go down to the floor covering places and get the old samples. Some Gaffa tape and join them together top and bottom. At the end of the litter, throw all in the bin. I use plain old newspaper on top. I have used polar fleece for ontop of the paper and also the Kylie Sheets. Kylie sheets are good, except they take AGES to dry when you wash them. Not too bad in the first two weeks, but later when the pee and poop get bigger and more. You need a fair few to keep changing throughout the day. depends on the timing of the litter, I will have an oil heater going in the room as this does not cause draft and I can regulate the temperature better. I have had litters on tiles with the lino underneath and have not had an issue of cold puppies. I also use two heat pads. One for the pups and one inadvertently for mum as they tend to want to hog it too. I share the concern with marine carpet with some others. The last thing you want is them seeking out carpet later on to pee/poop on. For that matter, you can maybe say the same for Vet Bed as it is carpet like. Interesting thought given the number of people who use newspaper to toilet train their dog from near the door to outside...

Confirmed today. Due 26th April

I would not be worried about any of it. I will do what ever it takes to defend myself, friends and my animals from aggressive dogs. if it means I kick or a wallop with a stick, then so be it. If the idiots cannot control their pets, are aggressive or a continuous spice of angst in the community, then they do not deserve to have a pet. I would be reporting it, this time you deflected an attack. The next time it may be a young child and they will not be so lucky. If the dogs in your area are as bad as you claim, I would be looking at attaching a small CCTV camera to your hat. They can be picked up pretty cheap on EBay and record any incident.

Have you tried something like Iodine or Betadine? I use Iodine and dilute it myself as it is cheaper to buy it from an animal produce than the chemist. Iodine will keep the wound clean and kill any infections. It will also dry it. The licking is a concern on another front - the licking then can become a behavioural issue which can be harder to fix than the wound. Try to break this habit as soon as you can. Concern about bandaging it: if bacteria gets in, it can take longer to heal. It is sometimes better to keep it open as much as possible to prevent the risk of secondary infection, unless there is risk of dirt etc getting in.

I know Dancin BC's. I normally do ultrasound around 35 days. She has not had a problem in the past whelping. So fingers crossed there. I will ultrasound her when the vet comes back from holidays in two weeks time. The other vet there that does it, is a nut job and will not ever patronise his services again.

There is another product available at pet produce or livestock produce called "potty's White". It is good for wounds

well it would seem I won't be getting an ultrasound done this time.. My vet decided to go on holidays, and by the time she will be back, I will definitely know if she is pregnant or not.. URRRRRGGGGH The last few days, she has been more off her food than on it. Her coat has a really lovely shine to it.

That's a funny one.

Dog eats rat bait = Straight to the vet. Simple. No if's or but's. It concerns me when people choose to come onto a forum rather than going straight to the vet. However: you need to also consider this: If pellets are being used, rats will not only just eat them where you put them, but in fact take them back to the nest. You can also find the pellets some distance away from where you (or your neighbours) laid them down. Even after months after laying baits, they can still be around as the rats will stockpile them. It contains a blood thinner similar to wolferin, which is used to treat humans. It prevents the blood from clotting. The danger is, the dog can hit against something and bleed to death internally. As for what attracts them, I believe one of the attractant ingredients is something similar to Linseed oil. Some vets will give the dog something to induce vomiting to hopefully remove excess bait from the stomach. I know some baits also contain another ingredient which does make the treatment different. So it is important to know if possible what bait was used. In saying this, I hope your dog is ok.

I was talking to some friends and other breeder friends recently and we were comparing the "wives Tales" etc for determining whether your bitch is pregnant. Now I am curious to hear other's thoughts. The idea of this topic is a little bit of fun and curiosity. If you want to come in here and get on your soap box about why breed etc. Then leave now. Not interested in starting a fight or anything else. Here are mine..... "Morning Sickness" around 2 weeks after mating White rings around the bottom of the nipple around the same time. The fanny stays slightly enlarged Temperament change (if it is possible, she is even more sooky than ever!!) It is now 27 days since the last mating. Veins showing across the lower part of her belly around near the set of nipples towards the rear legs Nipples are pink at the tips, and you can see the circle of dots on the tip.. Last few days off her food

I have had bitches tart all the way through and stand all the way through. I have had other bitches seem to "go off" after a day or so after mating. Like mentioned previously, I would not bet the farm on it. I just mated one bitch here. I had her prog tested on Sunday - she was 4.55. Got a mating Tuesday. The dog was kinda interested. Then the next few days. Nothing. She tarted a little but both seemed not so keen. Did another prog test on the Thursday and she had spiked at 22. The dog should have been just about ready to rape her. Nope. They were both not keen. We did an AI on the Friday. I think she is pregnant. Still have to wait a few more days until ultrasound. She is 27 days from the AI today. I like to do my ultrasound around day 35. (personal preference). This bitch has had two litters prior and she stood from day 11 right through to 13 and mated a number of times. The tie in those cases was about 5 minutes each. This time, the tie was a good 20 minutes and she was sucking down hard. Fingers crossed it is not a phantom and we got her. The science tells us it should be. But their responses are a little confusing.

Really though. What is "Show Quality" I see in my breed, "Suitable for show, obedience, agility" etc. The person has never set foot in any of these arenas. Really, on one hand, how would they REALLY know what any of these qualities are? To sell a dog to an agility home with severe slipping hocks? How is that sporting quality? Not to mention the dog is dumb as a row of "Poo brick-houses". To the point it just carries this deflated soccer ball around the yard and does not know what to do with it? (The dog reminded me of a toddler carrying around it's favourite stuffed toy "security blanket". There is a large difference between "Show Quality" and "breeding quality". Really, any dog will qualify for breeding quality. It has a uterus or doodle. It can be bred. Does not mean it should be bred however. Even those who do breed for show, understand that it may only show potential at 8 weeks of age. I just rehomed a bitch which I bred, who showed a lot of potential as a pup, but did not grow enough to continue on. She now enjoys the relaxed environment of a pet home and is desexed. This happens. I feel for the poor puppy buyer who does not know any better and is sucked in by some of these "breeders" who advertise their dogs as show quality, when really, they would never cut it in the show world. Why?? They are not breeding for structure, but rather colour. When you go past all else for colour, other qualities disappear.

Minimax, Another thought to buying the puppy at "5 weeks".... Did she actually pay for the pup fully at 5 weeks and it was shipped later at 8 weeks.. or did they actually get it sent down at 5 weeks???? I know myself, I have had people pay in full by 5 weeks. I normally ask for a deposit with the remainder to be paid when they collect their puppy at 8 weeks, or just prior to flying somewhere. I also know from when I worked at the pound, there were a number of dogs that came in who were chipped, but no details were ever recorded against the chip. Damn frustrating when you are trying to find an owner for the dog. As far as changing the chip, it has been toughened up and I believe Victoria is even harder. In a nutshell I sold a puppy to a person in Victoria. When I chipped them at 6 weeks, I thought I would register the chip straight into their name rather than mine and transfer it. (Never make that mistake again). At 7.5 weeks, they changed their mind and could not take the puppy. I later sold that puppy around 9 weeks. The hassle I had to try to get the chip back into my name so I could pass that onto the new owners was phernominal. While the puppy was in my name, and I could prove I was the breeder etc. They would not transfer it back to me. I could have "stolen" the puppy. As the person who bought the puppy, lived in Victoria, it was another set of rigmaoles. Essentially, they write a letter to the "owner" of the dog according to the microchip saying they have had a change of owner details and did they want to contest this. If not, send their form back and it would be transferred to the new owner. If not, then I don't know what they would do. If they did not hear from the "owner" in 14 working days, they presumed they were not the owner of the dog and the transfer would take place. Let me say, it was one stressful time. There was the possibility they then "wanted" the puppy thinking they could get it for free (as they wanted to pay the dog and the airfare off over 6 months - hence could not take the puppy at 8 weeks). Thankfully I had all records to contest this, however it would have been painful regardless.