Mystiqview

I understand Haggling is normal and part of everyday life for some countries and cultures. But buying a dog here is not the same as buying fruit or vegies in some market. I don't agree with haggling over the price of a dog. If you don't like the price of the puppy from a particular breeder or think it is too high, nothing is stopping you from NOT buying from that breeder. I know in my breed the price can vary greatly from breeder to breeder as my breed loves to have "rare" colours and there are those who breed for colour rather than quality and of course charge unsuspecting new pet owners accordingly. I get it pays to enquire around and do your research before buying a dog from a breeder, based on inside knowledge from my own breed (as a breeder). I have five dogs currently here and believe me, I will shop around for a good price for vet meds such as worming/tick preparations - even with the online vet stores, there are variances and I will shop for my meds from a number of places - after all the meds are all the same it is just the RRP that is different. If I can save a dollar here it is put in somewhere else. I feed premium food (Edit: Black Hawk) and one outlet sells it for more than what I can have it delivered for. Again a saving, but if I cannot get it delivered by my normal person or I was slack and did not order it in time, then I will go to the outlet. Same with vets.. If all I am after is a vaccination and all vaccinations are equal, if one vet is charging a fraction of a price to another vet, guess where I will go. On the other hand, if as in the case of one of my dogs needing major surgery, I will go with the best vet, not necessarily the cheapest. As for selling to a person with a 6 figure salary.. I would rather give a dog away to someone that I know will take good care of it than sell it to someone who thinks money will buy everything and spends it on high rolling activities and neglects the dog. Edited to correct dog food fed.

As a puppy buyer whether you are new or even a breeder. To ask the purchase price of the puppy is one thing and I believe that is a question that should be allowed. Maybe more so if you are new to the breed. Some people may need to save up for that initial cost. As for the transport, vaccinations etc.. That is also part of doing your homework and if you failed to get these prices while doing your homework then I would say your research is somewhat lacking. It does not take much to ring your local vet to ask the price for worming, vaccinations etc. There are also plenty of threads on here about online vet places to get worming, flea/tick products. Even Google is your friend as far as that goes. Most breeders I know who live a distance from the airport will do an airport run and will try to book as many pups who are flying around the same time so it will be only one maybe two trips to the airport. Those that live much further away, would say they may charge extra or freight will be on top of the purchase price. As for knowing about situations.. The breeder may not have known yours and it would appear you did not know the breeder's. Communication is a two way street. The dog world is quite small. As others have hinted to here, it was not hard (I could not be bothered looking) to find out which breed you were getting and from there, quite possible to know which breeder it was. If you are not getting a dog from this breeder, I would suggest doing some other more basic research before looking at getting another dog and even try to mend some shaky bridges caused by your implied questions to this breeder.

It can be really hard with questions on forums like this. Emails and written communication are also very hard as you cannot tell the intent behind the question. Sometimes it is better to pick up the phone and talk to the breeder and ask questions. You get a much better insight into the question by hearing how it is asked. Most puppies are sold at 8 weeks and it is up to the buyer to pay for the second vaccination and sometimes third vaccination (as some vets want to a 16 week booster). If you were questioning transport costs, I personally would have picked up the yellow pages and rang some of the leading transport companies and got quotes for prices for door to door, door to airport then airport etc. Depending on whether the pup is flying Virgin or Qantas will also depend on the shipping price. Qantas charges cubed dimension and weight, whereas Virgin charges by weight. So generally Qantas is much dearer. Some airports (and I have experienced this) will only have one airline freight. Example if I was flying a dog in and out of Canberra Airport I can only use Qantas. As a breeder, I could not care if you were on a four digit salary or a 10 digit salary. It comes down to whether I think you (and "you" here is generally speaking) can provide for the puppy in question. People on large salaries can be stingy whereas the person on a low salary can sacrifice their comfort for their animal as that is what provides the escape to their hard life. Of course people with money can also spoil their animals rotten. So this is no hit at your salary. Also as a breeder if you have had a bad experience with a puppy buyer (whether they be new or old) not providing for the dog and even if they had the means to care for it didn't these questions read in an email can be seen as a red flag. Especially if the email was read after a long day at work or some other time where the reader may be feeling a little sensitive. Generally we as breeders will not reduce the price of a puppy because of a vaccination. If there is a health issue, puppy is now 6 months or some other reason, the breeder may offer it at a reduced rate to find it a home as it is no longer "cute and fluffy" and as such a certain amount of appeal can be lost on people wanting that "cute and fluffy" and not see possible benefits such as toilet training, lead and collar training etc. You are generally talking about $40-$70 for a vaccination depending on the vet. And really, the extra two weeks also looking after and feeding/worming the puppy is also on top of that. So for the breeder to keep the puppy for an extra two weeks could also be seen as she should have charged you board for that time - as I mentioned at the beginning of the post - most puppies go at 8 weeks. If you have any doubts or questions, I would probably give the breeder a ring and explain your questions were not as the breeder read them to be and there may have been a misunderstanding in meaning.

Permit is renewed annually - think around September. It's not hefty. Think my renewal last year was around $30.

This is a pilot program on the gold coast - anyone who owns an entire dog is supposed to go to council and get approval to breed it and they inspect the property and give a yes or no. This has to be renewed every year. They also have to give their licence numbers in all ads. So we have one member who owns a CC champion bitch. She isnt ready to breed her yet and wont until she moves to a larger property but in order to keep her entire she has to get a breeders licence which they wont approve as her home has been ruled out for breeding. Then 12 months later we go and look at the local papers and not one of them had a breeders licence number with puppies advertised. When we went to the council to ask why the answer was that they had no ability or resources to police it. So the only people who are compliant are those that were doing the right thing anyway any one who has too many or who live in small housing allotments etc or who want to keep entire dogs simply dont register their dogs.Anyone breeding any old dog advertises them where they want anyway .Its only dummies like CC registered breeders who follow the law. What a surprise. Whats more they were pushing for this to be introduced within a heartbeat of this starting on the gold coast before anyone had any idea whether it would have a positive or negative impact . I live in Moreton Shire Council and previously known as Pine Rivers. I have been here now 10 years approximately and in all this time, we have had to have a breeder's permit issued by the council to breed. We needed to get the signatures of all the neighbouring property owners to state they did not have any objections to dog breeding here. The application cost was some hundred and something dollars (non refundable if refused) I was still subject to dog limit numbers associated with my block size (5acres or 20,000 sqm) - at the time it was 6 dogs by right and 8 with permit. Now it is 4 by right and 6 with a permit. I required to have my property inspected by the Local Laws officer and he required to know where the food was stored, inspected the kennels, what was done with the poo etc. Subject of course to any complaints received to council by neighbours re barking, smell etc. Renewable yearly with spot yearly inspections. In order to get a "breeder's permit" you were required to be a registered breeder with Canine Control or with similar controlling body for greyhounds. Each dog must be registered with Council. Recently I believe it has changed slightly to allow Back Yard Breeders - I believe they still have to comply to rules and regs and I also believe they may have to pay more for their breeder's permit. I was an Animal Laws Officer in Ipswich. Ipswich have some of the strictest dog rules around. They allowed less dog numbers per block size. Again some hefty application fee for excess dog numbers which was non refundable if refused. The problem there is the dogs had to be registered but you could only register two and the third (or fourth) was subject to the permit and if it was refused you were expected to get rid of the excess animals.... (Yeah right - who would willingly be doing this?). You could not apply for the permit before moving into the council area which made it hard for anyone moving from interstate or of distance. They never had a breeders permit like Moreton or Brisbane councils while I was there, but I believe they were looking at adopting Moreton's model as I was leaving. While living in Brisbane City Council - pay some two hundred dollars, and you get your permit. No inspections. You still have to register all animals and number was capped at 4 animals. The problem existed previously with Back Yard Breeders is they were ineligible to get a breeders prefix. So they bred happily (and still do) under the legislative radar. They have no governing body in which to adhere to any guidelines on how many litters/year and generally advertise on free websites. While a LL officer - many do not register their dogs with council as it will cost some $80-$100/year to register entire animals (whereas breeder permits allow you to pay the desexed rate of about $20-$40/dog). It is only when complaint is received for noise, smell or excess numbers that council generally gets involved and depending on whether there are excess numbers, fines may or may not be issued. The dogs were required to be registered,and if they were in the appointed time. Council was happy.

I know a breeder in WA who just used a clear sable over a merle. Of course there are merle and sable merle puppies resulting in the litter. They openly claimed on Facebook they were going to pet home and desex these puppies.... And whoa and behold.... One is sold to a person in NSW who clearly is breeding for colour. One lilac, One Choc Tri with scoring on one elbow and claims to have "perfect scores", one merle and a blue tri. Now a sable. It is a shame that many of the new people to the breed are only in it to breed colour and charge exorbitant amounts of money for dogs that do not meet the breed standard and who claim well "XYZ" is doing it, what should they do... "Not breed their dogs??" As in most things these days, the almightly dollar is what is dictating breeding, not health, conformation and (un)common sense. YES!!!

I would assume then that you have dogs who have more than one or two pups on average As someone has already said - 6 litters of 1 or 2 is a totally different thing to 6 litters of 10, or even 4 or 5. OP - if your bitch is healthy and in good condition I wouldn't mess with her hormones. Even if you decide after this litter not to breed from her again and do have her spayed, IMO you're better off giving yourself options. Going forward maybe a crate is a better option than gates that can be left open/climbed - afterall it's only for a few days that you really have to be ultra-careful. afterall it's only for a few days that you really have to be ultra-careful. Really??? I had a bitch locked away for the 21 days... Maiden bitch. Maiden dog. I let them out late on day 21, kept a good eye on them, nothing. Went to the village and came home to find them tied. I was only gone maybe 10 minutes. I rang the breeder of the dogs and informed them. They both asked whether I wanted the mating - I said it would be a possibility depending on relevant health tests. (Both needed to have CEA DNA testing and hip scores to be done as both were potential carriers). We waited 28 days, ultrasounded. Gave the Alizin (two injections 24 hours apart). She passed one faetus. Aborted the rest. She was later bred from by her breeder with no complications. I now lock my girls up for 28 days. I know other breeders with females who also have stood on day 21 or later. I would be looking at alternative securing methods of bitches in seaon after this just the same.

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1: Did you have to make any kind of commitment to showing your dog a certain number of times or have it reach its championship by a certain age? Depends on your breed. If you have a common breed, or a popular breed for BYB's, puppy farmers (even registered ones), it may be harder to get one on Main Register of any sex, let alone a female. In my breed, 95% are sold on limit register to prevent people from breeding either for colour or using high profile kennel names and trading on they have a dog from "XYZ" kennel. If the line has colour in, many show breeders are also wary. If you do get one on Main Register, often it is will be in a co-own arrangement with the contract conditions varying significantly. I see you are also in WA - and I am told there is generally only one show on at any given time, so competition is fierce for points. Again if you have a popular breed, gaining points can be hard and in this circumstance I would not be expecting any breeder to say the dog must be titled by any set age. Different here as there are often 2-3 shows in relatively close proximity and also other shows further out for competitors to choose from. 2: How do breeders decide on the best home, do they generally turn away beginners for established breeders? Depends on who is enquiring. If the beginner has the right intentions and is prepared to learn what it takes (breed standard, learning to judge each dog for its positives AND their negatives critically, showmanship etc) then I think many would be willing to guide and assist. If the person is there for a quick buck or the easy road or is known for not being good to their animals, then breeders would be more discerning. Just because someone maybe established, does not necessarily make them ethical or good. 3: How much experience did you have with the breed before your first show prospect? None. I learnt and made the same mistake any newbie does along the way. I am still not an avid showie that has the need to win it all attitude. to me it is still a hobby and is meant to be fun.. 4: How long did you wait before talking to breeders? I did my basic homework first. breed traits, looked at different people's websites and animals. Attended a few shows/obedience comps etc. Worked out "WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR" - I think this is the most important. First and foremost to being a competitive dog, it is my companion and I have to live with it for the next 14-16 years. I don't care if it is the best winning show/competition dog if it has a personality I cannot stand (too active/destructive, too timid, loves to bark/howl, too aggressive, too playful, brains, no brains, loves men/hates men etc). You need to know the full breed traits - The good, the bad and the DAMN ugly. Within each bloodline, there are styles and types and you need to know which style and type you like over the next. What is also "fashionable" in the show ring. An old more traditional type might night be the current flavour - and while still correct, how important is winning to you if another style or type is preferred and often put up? Be upfront and honest with your breeder. Nothing is worse than finding out later that the person tells you all along they don't want to breed, then all of a sudden after some weeks hits you up and says "of course I want to breed with it". Some people just love to show, but not breed. Others want to do both, some work out down the track it may be option. Let the breeder know this. Be willing to gain their trust and even be mentored by them. How soon is too soon to ask questions? Never really too soon. But think of what your questions are. Some breeders do not like to be bombarded with 100 questions up front. Some newbies send a list of questions to breeders like a multiple choice exam they have to pass first. These are not a good way to start off with gaining a good rapport with breeders. Particularly if you have not done the basic homework in the first place and are either not prepared or unable to answer some of their questions back about why do you want one of THEIR dogs. (go back to style/type, health testing if relevant, the look of their animals etc). Be serious in your intent. Again as a breeder, nothing like going to all the effort when the person asking is not serious and is only shopping around on a maybe some time down the track.Tell the breeder your intent: "I am looking at getting a dog in XYZ amount of time" or, "I am doing my homework now on the breed and am after some information etc" or "I am looking at getting into showing, what do I need to do and (if you are serious on a puppy from them) looking at getting a show puppy from you when you have your next litter (or this litter)" And then be prepared to back it up with "Why do I want a puppy from you.."

When I had my own Hydrobath business I had one of these tables that used to go into the hydrobath to do small dogs (and even medium dogs) Basicly the one I had was a cut down of a small steel hammock style bed that had shadecloth over it. with adjustable legs. I will try and take a photo of mine tomorrow. I tried to log into the website but they have changed the password, so cannot give a photo of the exact same thing as I have here: Also these come up regularly on ebay or even in the classified section of DOL. IT is not a cheap option as it is still a hydrobath, but a friend of mine had one and she could wash her border collies in it with ease and did not need to bend over Conmurra Midi Hydrobath

Thanks Ness. Will check it out when the time comes. At the moment, they are not giving us that until the stitches are out

She is doing much better thanks Coogie. Thankyou for all that information. I have it filed away for when that time comes. She finished the tremodol the other day and she is heading back to the vets tonight for a check up. Her crying has eased somewhat until she is left alone, then she howls theneighbourhood down. My partner is taking her to work with him and putting her crate where he can still keep an eye on her and take her for toilet walks as needed. I have a sling from my grooming days which I can use. Although she is using that leg for a few steps here and there which is promising. I certainly do not expect her to walk marathons just at this moment. LOL. I showed Dylan your earlier post and that has given him hope for a semi normal life for her. I had to hide the other posts tho as he does not like the dog world at the best of times. And the to and froing of who is right re legislation would have only depressed him more. Thank you again for your support and I will keep you posted on her progress. You never know, maybe get together for an "invalid" run on the near future. LOL

Depends on how "Old" your 7 year old is. If it is a young dog still and easy going I would always go with a puppy. You get a clean slate to work from. You don't have to retrain bad habits. Even from a breeder, the dog may have issues (don't like other male dogs or female dogs, is used to be in a kennel situation and while it may be shown etc, not REALLY socialised and a whole heap of other things). In saying this - a slightly older puppy or even a dog run on by a breeder and not making the grade (I would still be careful of WHY the dog did make the grade - is it temperament or health or did the kept litter mate just outshine this animal?). But I think to go this way, you have to do a lot more research onto a breeder and the animal in question and even make a trip to see the animal in the flesh even if it means hopping on a plane. I think if you go for an older dog, you really have to keep in mind the personality of each animal and ensure they will suit. I always say match the type of temperament to the dog you have already before considering sex of the animal. I have had girls get on well with girls and boys with boys, so I think the saying you MUST get one of the opposite sex does not always ring true in all cases.

Please. If you wish to argue law in the different states. Please make a separate thread. I would not like this thread to turn into a slinging match of who is right and wrong.

What are powered windows???? My car has this little handle that turns round and round.

Sure. But you may have to remind me. Won't be much to report in the next two weeks until stitches come out.

Mine are strapped in when travelling. I have a duel cab ute with canopy and cage and they will travel in that normally. She tried to jump once while strapped in (more like lunged) on the way home from a show as she likes to snap at cars passing by. This particular time she liked to snap and "chase" the parked cars. Problem with crates is if they are not strapped in too, in an emergency they can go flying through a window.

How is it odd? While a shoulder and hip are both ball and socket joints. Their movement is different. It also greatly depends on the damage done during the injury. As I had said, the preferred option was a toggle and tie. Basically they drill through the femoral head, attach nylon threat to a toggle or I suppose for better description a bolt in the hip socket. This operation has a success rate of between 50-80% as if the animal puts a lot of downward pressure on that leg/joint, the nylon can snap (much the same as the hip ligament torn during her accident) As I had also said the most common dislocation is for the joint to move forward and up. This is easier to repair as the cuff is not as damaged and there is some support left in the socket to help hold it together until the scar tissue etc is formed. There was another operation of screws, but given the way it had dislocated, was not advisable in this particular case.

She is managing surprisingly well, considering surgery was only Wednesday and everything is still swollen and sore. The vets have advised she can still lead a reasonably normal life but there will be things that she will not be able to do or more importantly SHOULD be allowed to do. They also said, it is very important for her to not get fat and to ensure the muscles are well developed to support that side as she does not have a hip socket any more.

It is a great reminder to secure your favourite pooch in a moving car. My partner was driving home from Landcruiser Mountain Park last Sunday afternoon from a weekend of four wheel driving. On the way out of the park, Faith decided to jump out the window. He was travelling about 50km/hr. The person following him is a fairly good knowledgeable dog breeder and felt for obvious injuries. Nothing broken. When my partner got home, I felt for the same and could not feel anything obvious. I had some pain medication and anti-inflammatory medication I had. Monday morning, he took her to the Vet. After doing X-rays, they found she had dislocated her hip in a bad way. Most dogs will dislocate up and forward. Faith had dislocated back and down and by doing this caused further damage to the bottom of the hip socket cup. They tried to put the hip back in once, but common with this injury, it does not stay there. The only options available to us were: Put in a toggle and tie ( we went for this option as a preference but advised if the damage to the socket, too great to go with next option) Remove the head of the femur then build up the muscle to support a false joint. An operation commonly used to correct dogs with hip dysplacia. Amputation (not discussed or considered at this point) Put faith to sleep ( again not considered or discussed) She had the femoral head removed and stayed in hospital for 5 days. She came home yesterday. We now have a very long road ahead of recouperation, and physio. She can never jump, and we have to always keep her lean and the muscles in peak condition right into old age. On my way down to the vets yesterday to pick her up, I was following a little Hyundai i20 and sitting in the lap of the passenger was a small white fluffy who was not restrained and hanging half out the window. In 20 years of me owning dogs, I have never had a dog jump out the window of a moving car. I have always had mine restrained or windows up to prevent this. My partner is normally the same. He said he cannot remember winding the window down all the way, and normally faith is strapped in with a harness. Timely reminder of what can happen if you don't.

I used Korella Strike A Light some years ago. He was initially eye tested at 6 weeks before the DNA Testing came in. He was normal for CEA. When the DNA testing came in, he was DNA tested affected. So yes it is possible for it to be so mild that it is missed on physical eye exam. There are other eye disorders that can develop as the dog matures and are not visible at the 6 week exam.

I had just ordered the whole box n dice for one of mine from ASAP. $135 for a complete breed profile (DNA Profile, CEA, CL, TNS, MDR1, Long coat, Colour). You will need to supply at least two (maybe three) sets of swabs (2 swabs/packet) as ASAP need to send out for the some of the tests. The return email stated a return of 14-21 days. Ok for me as there is no rush and it is then all done. If you were needing the tests done more urgently, then you would maybe better off sending swaps to the individual labs offering the TNS (Uni NSW) and GTG for CEA, CL. ASAP may nbe offering TNS and CL but they are not licensed to carry out the tests. Those tests are sent away to other labs. Same goes with other patentened tests. For those tests you need to send an extra set of swabs for the send away tests

I don't know your car. In most cases, you will need to remove a plastic protective cap or tab over the existing factory mounting points. Sometimes an existing mount and then screw In the mounts supplied.

dumb question.. would it just be easier to DNA test the father? or organise to have him swabbed and sent off? If they are both clear, it would solve the mystery.

I had just ordered the whole box n dice for one of mine from ASAP. $135 for a complete breed profile (DNA Profile, CEA, CL, TNS, MDR1, Long coat, Colour). You will need to supply at least two (maybe three) sets of swabs (2 swabs/packet) as ASAP need to send out for the some of the tests. The return email stated a return of 14-21 days. Ok for me as there is no rush and it is then all done. If you were needing the tests done more urgently, then you would maybe better off sending swaps to the individual labs offering the TNS (Uni NSW) and GTG for CEA, CL.