Mystiqview

My standard agreement is the person pays for the dog up front. (I don't charge more for pet/show/performance home). If I use the dog at stud or for a litter, either way - the person gets a full refund of their purchase price OR 2nd pick of a pup. The full costs of the litter are borne by me as it after all my litter. All proceeds from the litter come back to me with the exception of the above. The reason I do this, is the person has looked after, trained and the dog for me. This is a saving to me by not having the dog at my place. If I had kept the animal at my place, then training, food, etc and cost of health tests would normally have been borne by me as well if the dog had stayed here. The reason I charge up front is if the person desexed the dog before it is bred - they still have their pet at the normal rate and I have at least the puppy money from that sale so no one is out of pocket. If the bitch/dog is in another breeder home and you both want use of the dog/bitch, then the cost of health testing is 50:50. Each litter costs are borne by the party doing the litter. I try to be fair in this regard. The person who is looking after your dog for up to two years is doing you a favour. I offer back the choice of a pup or their full purchase price as a thank you. If the dog stayed with me, I would not have got a purchase price to begin with, so that is no loss. As for whelping/raising the litter - I guess that comes down to trust and the person's ability to do so. If I felt the person capable of doing it, then it would be better if the bitch stayed there in her known comfortable surrounds. Otherwise I get the bitch back two weeks prior to whelping so she can settle in. Once the pups are about 4-5 weeks old or fully weaned, then I see no issue of sending the bitch back to the owners. I have one bitch out at present on breeder terms. I will probably whelp her here as they are not experienced. After the pups are two weeks old if she is comfortable with it, send bitch and pups to her for raising with guidance. She lives only 15 minutes from me, so I am not too far away to lend assistance if needed. At worse, I will at least try to get the family of the bitch owner involved and maybe even be present at whelping and involved in their raising of the pups (I don't have kids, so the fact the family has children is good once the pups get older for child socialisation)

Ranga - the story was more geared for people than animals, however it was a good story just the same about tick toxin. Because we live in high tick area and the the amount of paralysis ticks here. Dad actually gets tick fever if he gets more than a couple attached in a short period. Most of our ticks are nymphs or unfed adults.

I saw this come up on my Facebook news feed. It was interesting to watch. How to remove ticks without pulling, squeezing etc: http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4177191.htm Pulling a tick causes it to inject more toxin.

It may also pay to contact Dogs NSW and check whether they have received the paperwork from the breeder. Once they process them it is sent back to the breeder to check and send onto the puppy buyers.

I have noticed those ANKC members actively for the most part even here in qld will state their member number and say registered with DOGS XXX.

Breed is Jack Russell. Ad is in QLD. A google search found independent JRT Breeders association I think in America. (Was a dot com site) Two things are also at play on that site. 1/ Only "registered" breeders can advertise puppies over $500. So BYB wanting more than this for their pup will claim "Registered" breeder to achieve this. They may not be registered with anyone as there are no checks done by the site. I think looking through some ads. This $500 cap on "unregistered" breeders is the reason many claim to be registered. You also see that some ads will have $500 at the top of the ad while in the body the $500 was only to get you to open the ad. One puppy may be $500 but the rest of the puppies are above this figure. Saw some ads where the remaining pups were $700 plus. 2/ different registers. There are a number of registers that are not ANKC. Various working dog registers who keep just as an accurate register than any ANKC register. No issue with them. ANKC breeders are not all pure an untouched. Where money can be made, some people will take short cuts and do dodgy things. That is human nature and until they are found out, they will confine to do what they do now. While the majority will do the right thing, there will be those who don't. What is needed over there is clarification. To claim "registered breeder" they should identify WHICH registry they belong too. I personally do not care if they also include their number. At least stating the registry (providing) it actually exists, then the person interested in the pups can check or look up that registry.

I was cruising around gumtree and came across this ad: XXXXXX Pure Bred Puppies. Registered/Pedigree (Independent Breeders Association) Born XXXXXXX Of course by claiming "Registered breeder" the price was $800 for a "Pure Bred" The ad was not for my breed

Agree to disagree. As to the injury - who is to say the incident CAUSED the luxating patellas. As it is a general breed issue in both breeds, who is to say it may not have happened anyway? The incident MAY have caused it to present early. It may not have happened if there was not already a pre-disposition to it in the first place. If I was socialising any dog, an off lead park is the last place I would go. Too many variables and too many unknowns. Bad/irresponsible owners, bad/unmannered dogs. Off lead parks are just an accident waiting to happen. Not the first place I would start. Even bigger dogs running with other bigger dogs or little dogs running together in the small dog enclosure. Exactly!!!! I said you had to control the play. Not let it be a free for all with any dog. It is no real difference between introducing a puppy to an existing dog at home. Supervision and care needs to be taken. We successfully introduced a 8 week old dachshund puppy to a ridgeback x mastiff puppy around 4 months without injury to the small dog. Care was taken and we were all on the floor to make sure no injury was caused to the small dog. Mastiff pup was full on, but it learnt to be gentle and not want to flop on it and try to squash it. Even now that both are adults, mastiff still a big goofy all paws and muscle, knows how to behave around the small dogs and is not rough. The small dogs have gotten used to the large dog. Makes it a lot easier when family get together happens. 4 border collies, 2 dachshunds and one large mastiff - all getting on well without injury or snappyness etc for weekend visits. Lot of dogs in one small house. I like other groomers here would have groomed their fair share of ill tempered small dogs. When dropped off at a grooming salon, not uncommon to have large and small dogs in there at the same time. They need to be able to be handled (and clipped) and also be reasonably comfortable (not freaking out) with a large dog on the next grooming table. Just sayin.

Depends on the state. Each state have different rules. For example, a WA breeder can whelp another litter in another state, as long as the bitch is registered to the person with the fix under which the litter is to be whelped. Where I also think at one point in QLD, technically, if a breeder stashes a dog somewhere, then the registration papers have to reflect that person on the registration. Eg. Co own with that person. For example, I can not register a dog in my name and have it live and "owned" by someone else at a different address, unless on a co own. If the two people in your situation are co owners of said bitch. To have a litter, then the prefix needs to be in both names. Which means a lease or transfer to the person holding the prefix.

Personally I believe it is important for both big dogs to interact with small dogs. How on earth are they otherwise know how to deal/cope interact with each other. It can be done responsibly, and well. You "control" the play by limiting how rough each other is. The last thing y want is the pom to be scared of big dogs. If it never interacts with them in either a positive way, then it could be creating issues further down the track if a negative interaction happens. Classic example. My sister in law has two dachounds. One standard and one mini. The mini does not like other dogs in general. They did not let it socialise properly with other dogs, especially bigger ones for fear they may put a paw on its back and cause damage. They would not even allow other dogs to smell her butt. It's a dog thing - get over it. Now she is just a lap dog. Fearful of bigger dogs and dogs in general. They rescued a couple of years ago a standard dachound puppy from the RSPCA. My mother on law also rescued a mastiff x ridgeback pup from the pound around the same time. This time they allowed controlled play. Still keeping in mind the potential danger of injury. The result: the standard is much more social, less demanding on human intervention where other dogs are concerned. Plays with the big dog and the big dog has learnt to control his behaviour around smaller dogs. The biggest problem with MOST small dogs is not enough socialisation. Lack of socialisation causes issues and temperament issues. Poor socialisation can lead to fearful aggressive nature. Something I have noticed in many Poms when I was a groomer. Bad tempered, aggressive and fearful creatures. If there is already a tendency for this in a breed, then. It is more important to socialise the dog with every thing at your disposal.

Moose mum I really do not get your point here. The original topic was about the labor party's intention to bring in tougher laws for puppy farmers. It does not have anything to do with KC breeders and BYB although both groups will be affected by any new laws. Some councils now offer a permit for breeding to non registered breeders. It is basically an undertaking that they will do the right thing, provide minimum standards and obey public health and safety. Yes, it is money to council. Something even registered breeders are supposed to pay as well. According to DOL, it says you are in NSW and may not know what there is in laws for QLD. That's ok. Illegal puppy farms, and those doing the wrong thing could be stopped or reduced now of the existing laws were enforced. The problem is no government authority likes negative publicity. Enforcement of laws whether it be parking fines, fare evasion and failure to comply with other state/local laws where a penalty applies (as in this case by fines) generates negative publicity with people going to the media and pleading hard done by the state or council. Too much negative publicity can cause a customer service approach or repealing of monetary fines. It does not matter that the person was doing the wrong thing. Whether this be parking, fare evasion etc. The media loves to throw one at government. The truth is, there are not enough resources allocated to enforce the existing laws. If resources were allocated to this, it would see an improvement. Examples need to be made. Government needs to grow the balls and stick to their guns - especially if the decision is done legally, correctly and no mistakes made in getting the evidence. Money will return to coffers via the fines which in turn provides financial resource to the people on the ground enforcing the laws. If the Labor government wins the next election at the end of the month, they seek to toughen up the laws already in place. It is fine to legislate. But if resources and a plan is not also put in place to enforce the laws - existing or proposed. Then what is the point? A little warm and fuzzy moment in the media. Nothing will improve. Those operating now under the law radar will continue to do so, knowing there is no resource set aside to catch them. Those who are naturally law abiding will try to accommodate or stop breeding, so there is less ethical registered breeders and more back yard breeders under the radar. If the existing laws were enforced, this will catch and penalise all who are breaking the law. Whether they be puppy farmer, large puppy farm, registered breeder and back yard breeder alike. Governments interstate as well are seeking tougher legislation. I believe QLD is looking to follow what has happened in Victoria. Kennel clubs would love more breeders. More breeders equates or more registered puppies, this means more memberships, more prefix maintenance fees and more revenue through litter registration. I think this is part of the reason they have no real concern in investigating and/or controlling those with prolific breeding programs. Providing those breeders are registering all their puppies, this equates to decent revenue to the Canine Clubs.

There are plenty of southern dogs up here in Qld and Qld dogs down south. Its possible, however there are dogs down south who suffer BCC. Ness in SA - it can get quite hot there, although not as humid as Qld. Jemma not only suffered BCC in summer, but also winter and at night. So heat in general, while a contributing factor, not the only factor in my experience when I lived with a dog with it. Jemma was bred in Qld and did not have a super thick coat. I did find that weight did affect how often and severity of collapses. She needed to remain working dog thin. Her fitness regime consisted of much swimming in the dam.

Moose mum, There will always be an "us" and "them". Creating a state or even national registration is not going to stop that. Even now, there is just about every avenue for a person to become registered, do the right thing by their dogs and their breed. People CHOOSE to do these things. There are rules and regulations already in place whereby people should adhere. They CHOOSE to do this or not. If people are going to take short cuts, breed or keep animals in a sub standard way, they will. Making something compulsory is not going to fix this either. If they cannot adhere to the existing rules, then why would they adhere to further rules? Now there is money to be made in breeding dogs. Both for the back yard breeder, hobby registered breeder and large establishments. Grab a couple of dogs and bitches and breed them in your back yard time and again, there is money to be made. Especially if the breeder is catering to a fad. Start to cut corners such as limiting the health testing, only using your own dogs (save on stud fee/transport) and not bringing in quality stock, not joining a membership (such as CC's or paying local council breeder permits and dog registration) you save further money. Not adhering to the CC's limit of 4 litters on a bitch, and no more than two litters within an eighteen month period. One Qld registered breeder freely admitted on a Facebook group they had seven litters with one of their bitches. Another has been reported to earn over $75000/year in puppy sales. The second only breeds, does not compete or do anything with their dogs. There are bad apples in all the barrels. Not just the back yard breeder. Sadly, there are some back yard breeders who take more care of their dogs than some registered breeders. Belonging to CC' s and paying prefix membership and normal membership is expensive for what you really get in return - a magazine once a month. Maybe a seminar once or twice a year. Yes, you are eligible to show or compete in their events and they may do SOME work behind the scenes in talking to Government. The gardener is not the wholly and sole blame for where we are today with designer crossbreds. He certainly contributed to where it has lead to today. I am certainly old enough and was involved in dog sports when his shows were airing when he had his hissy fit with CC's. At the same time as his show, you also had the likes of Guide Dogs developing the good old Labrodoodle for assistance dogs. There were crosses on his show of a variety of species from chooks to livestock. The humble lowman brown chook was developed for high leg laying without being over the top in skittyness for first the battery egg farms and also the hobby back yard. Miniature horses, miniature pigs to name a few more. His show was about what was popular at the time. Not just animals, but plants. The "invention" of the Labrodoodle is more to blame for where we are today with oodle crosses. The notion of hypo-allogenic dogs with non shedding fur is as largely to blame as that show. "Toby the Wonderdog" is as much to blame for the increased fad for chocolate border collies. Everyone wanted a dog just like Toby. Social media in the last few years and to a greater extent the internet and it's cheap, widespread advertising has made more people aware. John citizen sees pedigree dogs going anywhere from $1000 upwards and wonder why they cost so much - and want to cash in on what they perceive is the money train. Then you have the higher than mighty breeder who has little conception on basic customer service. They are rude, overbearing and may or may not get back to puppy enquiries. If they do, they appear to look down their nose at the humble puppy buyer. The breeder may have been duped before and looks to every enquiry in the future to do the same thing, even if "this" genuine pet buyer is new and may ask some stupid questions or poorly phrased email done through ignorance. Just look through some other threads here on DOL to see not just breeders by hang ons who want to jump down a newbies neck as soon as they post a thread on certain topics. No wonder some puppy people turn to the back yard breeder when met with that kind of attitude. I am not saying to forego any checks on their suitability, but at least appear to be friendly. Hopefully at least educate them enough with the information they may need to make an informed decision on their own about breed traits and health etc - they may even go to someone else and relieve you of having to deal with them. Hopefully at least another registered breeder rather than a Back Yard or puppy shop. Even if you would not sell them a pup for what ever reason, make it friendly. I know I will not get anywhere with this argument on this forum re the gardener. Some People here want to lay the sole blame for the whole thing on his doorstep. It is a lot more indepth than that and a lot more other factors. JMHO.

I should add, I could control the condition somewhat by learning what would trigger an episode and either stop before one came on, quiet her and cool her down when one did. Also really learning her behaviours really helped to know when something was off. At the time, there was not much known about the condition in Bcs.

I had a dog many years ago suffering from BC collapse. I first detected it in about 2003 with my girl. At the time, not a lot was known about it and some breeders denied that it even existed despite evidence showing up on it in Canada and USA in Border Collies. Jemma is from completely different bloodlines to what I have now. It came on when she was about 18 months old and got worse as she got older. Time of day or time of year did not make a difference. I did find that keeping the weight off her did make a difference and also controlling her activity and stress levels did help in limiting occurrances. She was bred in Qld and both her parents lived in Qld. I did find also when it came to exercise, I used to exercise her through water rather walking. I always carried plenty of water and a bucket with me to drench her with if I was out and she was going to suffer an episode. I first saw the condition around 2002 with a friend's working border collie. Peter's dog was complete working line - no show lines. When he would trial her in 3 sheep - he would leave a 20 ltr bucket by the gate to drench her in. She would get fixated on the sheep and not necessarily work or run her self into the ground, but would get herself worked up and start to induce a collapse. She was not a long coated bitch so cannot attribute coat length/thickness as a contributing cause. She would also induce a collapse if she got worked up or stressed. She was a very willing to please dog and would work herself up doing her tricks. The first thing I noticed was her tounge would go a dark purplish/pink before a collapse episode would come on. I also noticed that if she was "allowed" to have one collapse, then if you were not careful more could follow without as much stress. Like as if the toxins had not completely left her system from the first one. Jemma died in 2009 at only just 8 years old. She had a large growth in her abdomen. Unfortunately she died before they were calling for blood samples to determine a DNA test.